Wales vs England - RWC warmup, Raeburn Shield challenge, and chance to *become* the #1 ranked team

[Digby]

Ah good to see that he's calling up players to help out, I guess they will want to turn up as injuries are likely, but it must be slightly hard to get motivated knowing that with a month to go, you can't easily force your way in

Ludlam, Kvesic, Wilson back 3… with Lawes benching to cover --- not my first choice by a long way, but actually could be a lot worse.
Helped if we pick Sinckler and Manu for a bit of carrying…

True, but it's a downside to players knowing they're in and settling into more settled training Vs competing more with each other to impress the coaches whilst not serving the team. There isn't a perfect answer in this.

Definitely not a perfect answer -- I think before the announcement, I thought it was bonkers to announce so early. Now it's happened, I'm quite the fan of it -- I felt that preivously there was a lot in flux that could feck us over, now I feel like we know what's happening and where to focus.

If we can continue to use players like Spencer, Dombrandt, Ewels, Kvesic, Williams, and even Te'o to bolster the team and give players rest, then we'll be setting ourselves up quite nicely…

I do feel a bit for the coaches in all this. Gatland has taken quite a lot of stick for having too many friendlies, and games against decent tier 1 sides risking too much on the injury front, and now he's lost Anscombe some are using that to validate their criticism. When really if he'd organised 2-3 games against Romania he'd instead be getting it in the neck for not getting them up to speed against decent opposition. They can't win in all this unless they're the one side to win in Japan

[Mellsblue]

Ah good to see that he's calling up players to help out, I guess they will want to turn up as injuries are likely, but it must be slightly hard to get motivated knowing that with a month to go, you can't easily force your way in

Ludlam, Kvesic, Wilson back 3… with Lawes benching to cover --- not my first choice by a long way, but actually could be a lot worse.
Helped if we pick Sinckler and Manu for a bit of carrying…

True, but it's a downside to players knowing they're in and settling into more settled training Vs competing more with each other to impress the coaches whilst not serving the team. There isn't a perfect answer in this.

Definitely not a perfect answer -- I think before the announcement, I thought it was bonkers to announce so early. Now it's happened, I'm quite the fan of it -- I felt that preivously there was a lot in flux that could feck us over, now I feel like we know what's happening and where to focus.

If we can continue to use players like Spencer, Dombrandt, Ewels, Kvesic, Williams, and even Te'o to bolster the team and give players rest, then we'll be setting ourselves up quite nicely…

The player survey post the 2015 debacle highlighted using training camp as a competitor for places as an issue/problem.
Wholly agree with your second para.

[Digby]

Though the 2015 squad was much larger with additional uncertainty over more places. And if we should fail this time I'm willing to guess a lack of competition in the camp will be cited as an issue

[Banquo]

BBC are reporting that:

- Curry is a “small amount of weeks injury”
- Slade is out for 2 to 3 weeks
- Underhill available for Ireland
- Nowell on track for the world cup

And, No news on Ruaridh
(What's the situation with Mako?)

Biggest concern for me is that we don't have enough back-row players healthy to give Billy a rest

Billy should be being used sparingly, he's that important.

[jngf]

BBC are reporting that:

- Curry is a “small amount of weeks injury”
- Slade is out for 2 to 3 weeks
- Underhill available for Ireland
- Nowell on track for the world cup

And, No news on Ruaridh
(What's the situation with Mako?)

Biggest concern for me is that we don't have enough back-row players healthy to give Billy a rest

Yep. Which makes the last sentence of this article all the more interesting ...

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rug ... 54931.html

If my eyes aren’t deceiving me, Matt Kvesic has been added to the squad for Saturday despite Eddie not showing any interest in him whatsoever up until now ...

I get that he’s more of a like-for-like for Curry or Underhill but still strange.

Don’t get me wrong, I like Kvesic, but surely Dombrandt would have made more sense given his recent involvement.

Happy that Kvesic’s getting another look in but rather like Simmonds, I’m not sure this type of player is the answer to what is the back up for Billy at 8? Still think Morgan should be given another bite at the cherry - in several ways he’s actually a better 8 than Billy imo.

[Scrumhead]

I agree on Morgan, but Eddie clearly doesn’t.

I don’t necessarily think we’d be considering Kvesic as an 8 though. I know he’s played there for Exeter this season, but they play an unorthodox system and I think he’s being seen primarily as a 7 who can cover for Curry and Underhill’s short term niggles. The fact he’s used to playing at the base of the scrum works to his benefit.

[Mellsblue]

Is Kevs playing the role of Pocock in training?

[Mikey Brown]

Is Kevs playing the role of Pocock in training?

That would seem like a very Eddie move. Smart but a bit cunty.

[Danno]

I think the likely (Eddie's favourite) first XV will be played to prove a point, with any maybes benched to give them about 160seconds of gametime and to fuck with giving anyone a rest.

Marler (Mako out, atm)
George
Sinkler
Itoje
Kruis
Shields, wait no Wilson
Ludlam
Billy
Youngs
Farrell
May
Tuilagi
Francis
Watson
Daly

Genge
LCD
Cole/Williams
Lawes
Launch/Ewels, doesn't matter as long as we end up with four locks playing at some point
Heinz
Ford
Joseph
I'm ignoring Kvesic's call up, but assuming he's not simply cover for any training injuries he might be benched over Joseph

This is only very slightly tongue in cheek

[Banquo]

I agree on Morgan, but Eddie clearly doesn’t.

I don’t necessarily think we’d be considering Kvesic as an 8 though. I know he’s played there for Exeter this season, but they play an unorthodox system and I think he’s being seen primarily as a 7 who can cover for Curry and Underhill’s short term niggles. The fact he’s used to playing at the base of the scrum works to his benefit.

well quite, I'd have thought its obvious he's not there as a conventional 8 option.

[Stom]

Don't you think we might have had a change in plan? And could see a playmaking 12?

Could happen...

[Puja]

Don't you think we might have had a change in plan? And could see a playmaking 12?

Could happen...

I'm living in hope. We only moved away from it for two international windows, the latter of which wasn't a resounding success, and the last serious match saw Ford come off the bench to save the day. It wouldn't be a massive change of tack.

It's possible I'm in denial.

When is the team announced? Today?

Puja

[Banquo]

I think the likely (Eddie's favourite) first XV will be played to prove a point, with any maybes benched to give them about 160seconds of gametime and to fuck with giving anyone a rest.

Marler (Mako out, atm)
George
Sinkler
Itoje
Kruis
Shields, wait no Wilson
Ludlam
Billy
Youngs
Farrell
May
Tuilagi
Francis
Watson
Daly

Genge
LCD
Cole/Williams
Lawes
Launch/Ewels, doesn't matter as long as we end up with four locks playing at some point
Heinz
Ford
Joseph
I'm ignoring Kvesic's call up, but assuming he's not simply cover for any training injuries he might be benched over Joseph

This is only very slightly tongue in cheek

Assume you've accidentally transposed Francis and Tuilagi; be interesting to see if Manu is played at 13. I'd (like to) think he'd play him at at 12 with JJ at 13.

[Renniks]

Wales squad:

Smith, Owens, Francis
Ball, Jones
Wainwright, Davies, Moriarty
Davies, Biggar
Adams, Parkes, Davies, North, Williams

Dee, Jones, Lewis, Shingler, Navidi, Davies, Evans, Watkins

---

Feck me that's a lot of Davies'

---

He's not really rolled the dice here at all… Looks like a very strong side that I think England may struggle with in Cardiff.

No Patchell is interesting
Their back-row options are quite ridiculously solid for a team who haven't got Faletau or Tipuric…

I'd be careful of England overloading the team with Locks - would help in the lineout and scrum, but could be ran off the park…

[Epaminondas Pules]

That’s a bloody good side, at home, with another week under their belts. Proper test this!

[Scrumhead]

Wales squad:

Smith, Owens, Francis
Ball, Jones
Wainwright, Davies, Moriarty
Davies, Biggar
Adams, Parkes, Davies, North, Williams

Dee, Jones, Lewis, Shingler, Navidi, Davies, Evans, Watkins

---

Feck me that's a lot of Davies'

---

He's not really rolled the dice here at all… Looks like a very strong side that I think England may struggle with in Cardiff.

No Patchell is interesting
Their back-row options are quite ridiculously solid for a team who haven't got Faletau or Tipuric…

I'd be careful of England overloading the team with Locks - would help in the lineout and scrum, but could be ran off the park…

Clearly Gatland isn’t one to gamble too much.

James Davies will be out impress and will attack the ball, so we can’t be slow to the breakdown.

The bench is interesting with Beard dropped altogether and Shingler covering lock.

[Numbers]

Wales squad:

Smith, Owens, Francis
Ball, Jones
Wainwright, Davies, Moriarty
Davies, Biggar
Adams, Parkes, Davies, North, Williams

Dee, Jones, Lewis, Shingler, Navidi, Davies, Evans, Watkins

---

Feck me that's a lot of Davies'

---

He's not really rolled the dice here at all… Looks like a very strong side that I think England may struggle with in Cardiff.

No Patchell is interesting
Their back-row options are quite ridiculously solid for a team who haven't got Faletau or Tipuric…

I'd be careful of England overloading the team with Locks - would help in the lineout and scrum, but could be ran off the park…

Clearly Gatland isn’t one to gamble too much.

James Davies will be out impress and will attack the ball, so we can’t be slow to the breakdown.

The bench is interesting with Beard dropped altogether and Shingler covering lock.

Beard has a minor wrist injury hence Ball and Shingler.

[Danno]

Wales squad:

Smith, Owens, Francis
Ball, Jones
Wainwright, Davies, Moriarty
Davies, Biggar
Adams, Parkes, Davies, North, Williams

Dee, Jones, Lewis, Shingler, Navidi, Davies, Evans, Watkins

---

Feck me that's a lot of Davies'

---

He's not really rolled the dice here at all… Looks like a very strong side that I think England may struggle with in Cardiff.

No Patchell is interesting
Their back-row options are quite ridiculously solid for a team who haven't got Faletau or Tipuric…

I'd be careful of England overloading the team with Locks - would help in the lineout and scrum, but could be ran off the park…

Clearly Gatland isn’t one to gamble too much.

James Davies will be out impress and will attack the ball, so we can’t be slow to the breakdown.

The bench is interesting with Beard dropped altogether and Shingler covering lock.

Eddie's gone one better

[Scrumhead]

Team is up:

15. Elliot Daly (Saracens, 31 caps)
14. Ruaridh McConnochie (Bath Rugby, uncapped)
13. Jonathan Joseph (Bath Rugby, 41 caps)
12. Piers Francis (Northampton Saints, 5 caps)
11. Joe Cokanasiga (Bath Rugby, 5 caps)
10. George Ford (Leicester Tigers, 56 caps) C
9. Willi Heinz (Gloucester Rugby, 1 cap)
1. Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 10 caps)
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 12 caps)
3. Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps)
4. Joe Launchbury (Wasps, 59 caps)
5. Maro Itoje (Saracens, 27 caps)
6. Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 72 caps)
7. Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
8. Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 42 caps)

Finishers:

16. Jamie George (Saracens, 37 caps)
17. Joe Marler (Harlequins, 59 caps)
18. Kyle Sinckler (Harlequins, 22 caps)
19. George Kruis (Saracens, 33 caps)
20. Jack Singleton (Saracens, 1 cap)
21. Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 86 caps)
22. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 70 caps)
23. Manu Tuilagi (Leicester Tigers, 33 caps)

So Singleton covering the back row ... is Eddie trolling them (and us!) now?

[fivepointer]

Thats quite a surprise. Thought we would see a lot more changes.

Isnt it just a bit ridiculous that we have 2 hookers on the bench and no back row cover? Injuries or not, this is hardly ideal.

[Mellsblue]

Didn’t we end up with both LCD and Singleton on the pitch at the end of the game last week? Not that I’m condoning the decision.

[Banquo]

Wilson must also be hurt. Not liking Billy having to go 80 again. Looks like Francis is being given a real shot, so wondering what real strategy in midfield is. Lawtoje, aargh.

[Scrumhead]

Yes. We did, but that was understandable due to Curry’s injury.

It’s a lot less acceptable when we could have planned against it.

[Mellsblue]

Wilson must also be hurt. Not liking Billy having to go 80 again. Looks like Francis is being given a real shot, so wondering what real strategy in midfield is. Lawtoje, aargh.

Itoje to no8 after 60 mins. Obvs.

[Scrumhead]

If that happens jngf will love it