Wales vs England - RWC warmup, Raeburn Shield challenge, and chance to *become* the #1 ranked team

[jngf]

We also need to develop our next Simon Shaw - Kruis, Itoje,Launch and Lawes are all great athletes but imo none of them have the out and out physical presence of some of the monsters the boks,Kiwis and French can spawn imo. Our biggest bruiser is in the 8 shirt

[Banquo]

You can take a lot from this. You did very well against the World's No 1 team!

If only any of those three things were true.

[Spiffy]

The England pack is massive but lacks some mobility and they do like to lie down on top of the ruck.
Launchbury is a tremendous workhorse but often operates at low speed.
England has to find a way to get more ball into the hands of Daly and Watson.
Youngs continues to be unimpressive.
Not a great game of rugby, but Wales played with spirit and deserved the win.

[Puja]

While the ref needs shooting for not spotting the two Welsh dropping that maul in the final minute, we need shooting for trying it in the first place. Our maul has got no change all day and Gauzere has allowed anyone and everyone who is not named Courtney Lawes to swim up the side and hang around offside, yet we decide we're going to try and man our way over. Would've been the perfect time to do the dummy of a lineout drive and have Billy V passing a short ball to Cokanasiga on the crash. Even if they stop him, we'd then have a disarrayed defence to work with.

Puja

[Buggaluggs]

You can take a lot from this. You did very well against the World's No 1 team!

If only any of those three things were true.

Ha! True

[Danno]

Can we put this Lawtoje shit to bed once and for all now, please?

[jngf]

The England pack is massive but lacks some mobility and they do like to lie down on top of the ruck.
Launchbury is a tremendous workhorse but often operates at low speed.
.

I think it’s a question of both nastiness and physical prescence. If we had even one lock in the current squad with a bit of Etzebth style scariness we’d have an edge. Only perhaps Lawes and Billy give the the impression of physically putting some dread in the opposition.Itoje pulls faces and shouts a lot but I’m not sure he really intimidates by his shere physical presence - Kruis and Launchbury strike me as very gentle giants ( and not really that giant by test standards)

[Which Tyler]

While the ref needs shooting for not spotting the two Welsh dropping that maul in the final minute, we need shooting for trying it in the first place.

Be fair, neither of them were close to the most egregious example of people (or even just the ref) in need of shooting

[Scrumhead]

Would it be childish and somewhat straw clutching to smirk at the Welsh celebrating this victory?

Not at all. We were crap, but they really weren’t any better and they certainly didn’t replicate the dominance we had last weekend.

[Buggaluggs]

I'd say NZ look ominously good, RSA match NZ well but I don't see the rest of us beating them. England probably match NZ better than Wales or anyone not called South Africa. Behind those two, not much to pick between Eng Wales and Aus.

[Banquo]

I'd say NZ look ominously good, RSA match NZ well but I don't see the rest of us beating them. England probably match NZ better than Wales or anyone not called South Africa. Behind those two, not much to pick between Eng Wales and Aus.

It was a big win for the kiwis today, but its not a vintage team and they miss Retallick; although they didn't ship any points, I thought they looked vulnerable in the 10/12 channel.

[Oakboy]

Did Tuilagi touch the ball?

[Oakboy]

Is LCD really international standard?

[Banquo]

Did Tuilagi touch the ball?

yes, once, but had to offload.

Bring him on and then kick it away, good plan.

[Banquo]

Is LCD really international standard?

scrummaging and loose play is fine.............

[fivepointer]

Is LCD really international standard?

I think so, but it would have been nice to see a more convincing performance today. George was very impressive when he came on. It was a definite step up.

[twitchy]

I was going to watch the highlights but probably won't bother. Any new injuries?

[p/d]

Is LCD really international standard?

Very much so Dors

[Buggaluggs]

I was going to watch the highlights but probably won't bother. Any new injuries?

go on. It won't take long.

[Banquo]

I guess some of what you can take away that you must have a balanced and specialist backrow or be prepared to throw more bodies into the breakdown; that there are some sides you don't have an aerial fight with; that our mauling is easily disrupted; that soft penalties let sides into games; that Youngs isnt much of a trade up on Heinz, if at all; that Francis hits good lines; that Watson is sharp ball in hand. Meagre pickings as a lot of that is weaknesses that are recurring and longstanding.

[Timbo]

Can we put this Lawtoje shit to bed once and for all now, please?

Very much hope so, but we’ll probably see it again if we lose 3 flankers in a week again.

[jngf]

I guess some of what you can take away that you must have a balanced and specialist backrow or be prepared to throw more bodies into the breakdown; that there are some sides you don't have an aerial fight with; that our mauling is easily disrupted;.

Indeed, taking Lawes at 6 for example, last week when he came on as an impact player his strengths of hard, straight carrying and tough tackling really came to the fore. This week we needed somebody a bit more terrier like at 6 who could get all over the park and support the floor scrapping. Ludlum was doing the work of three at the breakdown and unfairly castigated by Sky pundits as not being 7 enough. IMO he’s a helluvalot more openside the anything Robshaw,Haskell or even Underhill have ever served up!

[Timbo]

Just as last week I would be reticent to make too many judgements on that 80 minutes, positive or negative. It was a step up physically, and I think that took us by surprise a bit in the first half. That was their first choice packs second hit out so you’d expect them to be a handful.

It’s a lesson we’ve learned often, but clear we need at least 2 of our 4 flankers to be fit and on the park together for every game or we will have some serious struggles. Outgunned at the breakdown today.

[Oakboy]

I think the biggest question is, "Why were we not more up for it?"

Ford kicked badly from hand last week. It was reasonable to expect improvement but he was even worse today.

Coka was a passenger but involved last week.

LCD was poor last week and worse today.

The maul was even worse this week.

What did the coaches do for 6 days?

[fivepointer]

Just as last week I would be reticent to make too many judgements on that 80 minutes, positive or negative. It was a step up physically, and I think that took us by surprise a bit in the first half. That was their first choice packs second hit out so you’d expect them to be a handful.

It’s a lesson we’ve learned often, but clear we need at least 2 of our 4 flankers to be fit and on the park together for every game or we will have some serious struggles. Outgunned at the breakdown today.

Right not to get too down as it is "just a warm up" but jeez we were bloody poor. For a lot of our players it was their second hit out too. I think its reasonable to expect a whole lot better.

The breakdown was a reversion to where we were a year and a half ago. Our ball retention has been pretty good for a while but so much of our clear out work today was poor and/or under resourced. Its not just down to the back row to get this aspect of play right.