Next up, Ireland

[morepork]

This is Ireland's punishment for committing to anti-rugby and an endless box kicking.

[richy678]

I'm just gonna say that about 2 years ago most of you guys on here kinda sniggered at me when I was suggesting Manu - when fit - is what we would be looking for.
He is now obviously being used far more intelligently - better coach etc.

[p/d]

I thought Kruis's rigid hands were a real downside on at least one occasion.

... Dors just accept he is a fixture in Borthwick’s view

[Mikey Brown]

I'm just gonna say that about 2 years ago most of you guys on here kinda sniggered at me when I was suggesting Manu - when fit - is what we would be looking for.
He is now obviously being used far more intelligently - better coach etc.

Really? I thought 2 years ago we were all saying let’s not build our backline around a player who hasn’t been fully fit for 3 years.

I’m not sure anyone on here has questioned the impact he can have.

[fivepointer]

57-15 isnt to be sniffed at, warm up game or not. We were very good today. Big performances up front from the locks and Curry and Underhill. Their pairing worked a treat, and its surely one we will see again.
Manu was sensationally good.
We scored some terrific tries, handled really well throughout but i really liked the work in the forwards, generally defended well, looked fit and full of threat.
Mako coming off was an obvious downside. Daly's defence is a glaring weakness.
And Ben Youngs at SH. Jeez that was a dire effort. To be comfortably eclipsed by Heinz was telling.
All in all, though, this was a very encouraging performance.

[Spiffy]

Quite impressed by Cockanasiga. Though he is a massive bloke, his tries were based more on real speed than brute force. He is quite a handful. His defence will improve.

[p/d]

Quite impressed by Cockanasiga. Though he is a massive bloke, his tries were based more on real speed than brute force. He is quite a handful. His defence will improve.

His defence really does need to improve. Got off lightly today, even though he was left floundering when Shirley Bassey’s wig fended him off

[Which Tyler]

I'm just gonna say that about 2 years ago most of you guys on here kinda sniggered at me when I was suggesting Manu - when fit - is what we would be looking for.
He is now obviously being used far more intelligently - better coach etc.

Really? I thought 2 years ago we were all saying let’s not build our backline around a player who hasn’t been fully fit for 3 years.

I’m not sure anyone on here has questioned the impact he can have.

This.
That claim simply isn't true

[richy678]

I'm just gonna say that about 2 years ago most of you guys on here kinda sniggered at me when I was suggesting Manu - when fit - is what we would be looking for.
He is now obviously being used far more intelligently - better coach etc.

Really? I thought 2 years ago we were all saying let’s not build our backline around a player who hasn’t been fully fit for 3 years.

I’m not sure anyone on here has questioned the impact he can have.

This.
That claim simply isn't true

Pleasantly suggesting......i seemed to to get a feeling of .....i cant spell it properly now....condensation? that i was being patted on the head and told that we needed ball players and passers to play in the centres for England....thoughourbred multi skilled three quarters who understood lines of running, tactical nous, who could out think a defence, total rugby back players?

Anyway...I remeber the posted raised eyebrows. We saw today some thought out backs moves, with a coherent game plan, which was massivley accentuated by Irelands line out collapse.

So as the dew settless onto a horizon with a different temperatue...

[Puja]

Feeling pretty good about my promotion of Ford/Faz/Manu as being our best combo. They were everything I'd hoped for, despite some truly execrable work from Youngs inside them.

Excellent result, although I will caution that Ireland were coming off fitness camp and without any match practice, plus that an Ireland team without Sexton and Ryan (and Murray for most of it) are a very different beast to full-strength. Even with that caveat, that was a superb effort and some of the best handling I've seen from an England team in a long time (Youngs aside).

Puja

[Puja]

Mauls off a kick a different? Is that new?

Been the rule for quite a while

Is this the one on 62 minutes? I was trying to work out what was going on. Is it not a maul if you hold up the catcher?

It changed back in 1998ish - teams were getting easy metres by putting up kicks and basically catching the catcher as he landed.

However, I think Farrell had a valid point - the law says that it has to be immediately from a kick and the Irish player had a good couple of seconds before he was seized upon (which appeared to be deliberate). The law is to prevent a player from being seized before they can play the ball and he had had a chance.

Puja

[Renniks]

Agreed Puja, he definitely had time to play, and I don't think it was immediately off the kick

Also - pretty sure that people's derision was over the idea that we just need a boshing centre - I'd still not back Te'o to play anywhere near to the level Manu did today - and I'd not, in any way, want two of them.

[Puja]

Agreed Puja, he definitely had time to play, and I don't think it was immediately off the kick

Also - pretty sure that people's derision was over the idea that we just need a boshing centre - I'd still not back Te'o to play anywhere near to the level Manu did today - and I'd not, in any way, want two of them.

Agreed - I think any condescension (rather than being a bit damp) was over the suggestion of Te'o/Tuilagi being paired.

Speaking of which, I now maintain even more than Manu is wasted at 12. You can use him as a bosh blunt instrument there, but the joy of him is having him as a wide option to move defences about as they go saucer-eyed at him and all cluster in, as well as having the crash ball be much more effective as an outside-to-in line against the grain (which is also easier to use as a dummy), rather than in-to-out which can be drifted with. I'd love to have Joseph playing 13, but using Manu at 12 means you're only getting half the player.

Puja

[Timbo]

Agreed Puja, he definitely had time to play, and I don't think it was immediately off the kick

Also - pretty sure that people's derision was over the idea that we just need a boshing centre - I'd still not back Te'o to play anywhere near to the level Manu did today - and I'd not, in any way, want two of them.

Agreed - I think any condescension (rather than being a bit damp) was over the suggestion of Te'o/Tuilagi being paired.

Speaking of which, I now maintain even more than Manu is wasted at 12. You can use him as a bosh blunt instrument there, but the joy of him is having him as a wide option to move defences about as they go saucer-eyed at him and all cluster in, as well as having the crash ball be much more effective as an outside-to-in line against the grain (which is also easier to use as a dummy), rather than in-to-out which can be drifted with. I'd love to have Joseph playing 13, but using Manu at 12 means you're only getting half the player.

Puja

I think the retort would be that, especially from 1st phase, you can use Manu exactly as you describe...but he’d just have a 12 shirt on. When he’s playing with Slade in particular I can’t see why you couldn’t have them both moving between 12 and 13 constantly through a game, although that level of understanding takes a while to build.

Just as an aside, was interesting to hear Eddie talk about his squad of “34”, and the way he described Marchant, Ewels and (most interestingly) Kvesic seems little doubt that they are the next cabs off the rank in their respective positions.

[Puja]

Agreed Puja, he definitely had time to play, and I don't think it was immediately off the kick

Also - pretty sure that people's derision was over the idea that we just need a boshing centre - I'd still not back Te'o to play anywhere near to the level Manu did today - and I'd not, in any way, want two of them.

Agreed - I think any condescension (rather than being a bit damp) was over the suggestion of Te'o/Tuilagi being paired.

Speaking of which, I now maintain even more than Manu is wasted at 12. You can use him as a bosh blunt instrument there, but the joy of him is having him as a wide option to move defences about as they go saucer-eyed at him and all cluster in, as well as having the crash ball be much more effective as an outside-to-in line against the grain (which is also easier to use as a dummy), rather than in-to-out which can be drifted with. I'd love to have Joseph playing 13, but using Manu at 12 means you're only getting half the player.

Puja

I think the retort would be that, especially from 1st phase, you can use Manu exactly as you describe...but he’d just have a 12 shirt on. When he’s playing with Slade in particular I can’t see why you couldn’t have them both moving between 12 and 13 constantly through a game, although that level of understanding takes a while to build.

Just as an aside, was interesting to hear Eddie talk about his squad of “34”, and the way he described Marchant, Ewels and (most interestingly) Kvesic seems little doubt that they are the next cabs off the rank in their respective positions.

If you're going to stand him at 13 in order to get the advantages of having him at 13, why not just play him at 13 and have done with it?

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

As an aside, did anyone notice the Kearney clothesline on Curry as he passed to Daly for his try? Proper naughty!!

[twitchy]

[Digby]

And then we get all the advantages of Manu at 13 as we saw against Wales in Cardiff, we'll be unstoppable

[p/d]

And then we get all the advantages of Manu at 13 as we saw against Wales in Cardiff, we'll be unstoppable

Aye. Would have preferred another run against Wales than that sorry lot yesterday.

[Oakboy]

I thought Kruis's rigid hands were a real downside on at least one occasion.

... Dors just accept he is a fixture in Borthwick’s view

Yes, I do reluctantly even though Launchbury is simply a better player, IMO. What matters, though, is the second row as a unit. Kruis, for all his flaws, gets performances out of Itoje that Launchbury and Lawes do not. I still have concerns about Kruis against the top SH sides which have exposed him in the past.

[16th man]

Aside from a bit of a run around in the sun, and the chance to try out Curry and Underhill, how useful do we think yesterday actually was?

The Irish are obviously a few weeks behind us in their prep work, and I'm not sure how much we've actually picked up from running through holes in a disjointed defence and picking off a misfiring line out?

[richy678]

I think it was a very useful workout with an absolute Brucie Bonus of a fantastic result.

I am not sure what is happening with Irelands conditioning as they were blowing out of their arses after 30 mins. I am not even really gonna take some sort smokescreen that they are 1 or 2 weeks "behind" England - the World Cup starts the same time for everyone and I always thought the conditioning and beasting work should be out the way by then - or at least tailing off so energy levels are ready for playing not training.

Rory had a shocker with the throwing - however, 6 of one and half a dozen of the other the commentary made it clear that we competed and maneuvered on his throw to pile on the pressure.

Youngs had a shocker - which is a big worry - he is picked as number one choice and most of the time I believe that's the case - I know he picks up a lot of flack from purists, let's hope he's got the bad one out the way.

I absolutely loved the close together carrying, pop passing forward play the pack put together - very refreshing after years of smash it up/go to ground/default play is to ruck.

I'm also gonna say that it's brilliant to actually see England with some backs moves - possibly very good ones. It used to break my heart under Johnson and Lancaster where there seemingly no desire or possibly actually nothing planned apart from a general game plan.

Gotta say Ireland allowed our good players to play, but in recent years, until we did them in Dublin, they were the top NH side. beating the AB's etc. What has happened?

Soundly beating Wales at home.
Victim of Spanish practice which led to an immediate law change in Cardiff.
Crushing victory over Ireland.

let's hope we haven't peaked too early.

Anyone know how Mako is?

[Which Tyler]

We've played 2 matches with a mix-n-match team against Wales' best-available. We won one fo them with a power game, and came very close in a scrappy affair in very hostile conditions. We then played a completely different game-plan against Ireland and blew them away. All 3 matches against teams ranked in the top 3 in the world.
We can beat the 2nd best team in the world with a power game (with our 1.5th choice XV); and that our firsts can beat the 3rd best team in the world with a running game, our 1.5th choice XV also came within a whisker of victory in a scrappy game in the most hostile atmosphere imaginable. That variation is something we've (very) rarely seen from England. Acutally, have we ever seen such variation in such quick succession? Even 2000-2002?
We may well take from that, that we can afford to manage the squad deeper into the pool stages than we have expected, keeping our powder a little drier for the knock-out stages, and aim to peak for a potential SF; rather than having to peak at the end of the group stages and hope momentum can carry us through.

Of course, the pressure is low in a warm-up match with a squad that's already confirmed; and Ben Youngs is still capable of losing us a match on his own, and we look vulnerable to injuries in key places; but... we can't do anything about pressure at this stage - we'll know more in the groups; Ben Youngs tried his best to lose us that match on his own, and every team is going to be a little vulnerable to key injuries in a 31 man squad.

[Mellsblue]

Stephen Jones:
‘.......Ben Youngs....merely called upon to give all this power and energy the correct stage directions........managed that with delicious accuracy.’
Honestly, what was he watching.

[Raggs]

He wasn't. He obviously looked at the scoreline and guessed.