Tonga

[Scrumhead]

Just watched the highlights for NZ vs. Tonga: https://www.planetrugby.com/video-new-z ... ighlights/

I’m not sure how close that was to Tonga’s first choice lineup (no Mafi or Veainu?) but their defensive structure is shocking, particularly in the wider channels. NZ made hard work of a few of the moves leading to their tries and still scored ridiculously easily.

Now I’m sure that they’ll be much better in our pool game than they were in a warm-up where they might not have been going all out, but I’m not sure you can improve a defence that poor in 15 days. Our back three could have a good day.

[Stom]

We should definitely play as close to 2nd choice as possible. Wrap Ford in cotton wool. Which will probably give us 9-0 at half time...

[Puja]

I don't think it's going to be as competitive a tournament for the minnows as 2015 was. I don't believe there was a score above 60 or a margin above 40 last time, whereas I can see a few hundreds being doled out this time (not least to Russia).

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Indeed. If Italy can put 85 points on Russia then Ireland, Scotland and Japan should be looking to match or better that.

Uruguay and Namibia could be on for some whippings too.

I don’t want to judge Tonga solely on one video, but those highlights are just crazy. NZ looked fairly sloppy (by their standards), but were scoring easily. There was so much space out wide and they were just waltzing to the line. As much as Tonga may not have been going all out, NZ were quite clearly playing at 60% effort at the most.

[Mellsblue]

Yep. Russia should not be there. Iirc, they are beneficiaries of the eligibility debacle in ERC and even Jersey beat them. It was Rusdia’s second string but still.
Let’s hope the more equitable turn around times between matches helps out the weaker nations.
Should some humpings be handed out it might have the longer term effect of putting expansion further down the road.

[Renniks]

So, With Mako and Nowell not available… (Others potentially not available, but until confirmed, let's imagine they are)

Which 23 do you go with for Tonga?
(USA 4 days later, slightly tougher game, before 9 day gap to Argentina)

1. Genge
2. Singleton
3. Cole
4. Launch
5. Lawes
6. Ludlam
7. Underhill
8. Wilson
9. Heinz
10. Ford
11. Big Joe
12. Francis
13. Joseph
14. McConnoghie
15. Watson

LCD, Marler, Sinckler, Kruis, Curry, Youngs, Slade, Daly

Pretty much second string, but going with Ford and Watson still

(USA would be much more first string, with any of those returning from injury benched if possible)

[Puja]

I'd mix and match, so as to make sure we have two strong teams without any risk of not getting a clean 10 points. I'd also keep anyone we don't want injured away from the big boys of Tonga.

I'd go broadly the same as Renniks, except I'd have May over McConnochie, and Krutoje in the second row to improve the pack. Maybe Marler over Genge as well, as I think Ellis will get more joy out of the Yanks than he will from Tonga.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Same as Renniks here except I’d start LCD with Singleton on the bench.

For Singleton to have his first start (and the first time playing in his actual position) as the team’s opening game of the RWC would be a baptism of fire we don’t need to risk.

[Puja]

Same as Renniks here except I’d start LCD with Singleton on the bench.

For Singleton to have his first start (and the first time playing in his actual position) as the team’s opening game of the RWC would be a baptism of fire we don’t need to risk.

Disagree on Singleton - there's no better opportunity to blood him with a start (as George will need to start the USA game to make sure he's match fit for the big game) and he does need to be blooded in case of injury. Makes me feel firmer that I'd pick Marler and Krutoje with him though, so he's shepherded by more of our first choice pack.

Puja

[Stom]

I agree, generally, but Daly's not had a run out for a while...

I think I'd look at:

Marler
Singleton
Cole
Itoje
Kruis
Ludlam
Underhill
Wilson
Heinz
Farrell
Daly
Francis
Joseph
McConocchie
Watson

LCD, Genge, Sinckler, Lawes, Curry, Youngs, Ford, May

Obviously Eddie will swap the wing and FB...

[Renniks]

Fair enough on Marler > Genge (especially to support Singleton)

I disagree about Itoje / Kruis, I think that getting them good game time together against USA is more important, and I really doubt Lawes and Launchbury will be troubled in a way that Itoje / Kruis will solve

I was tempted by the Daly / Watson starting, but I felt that if both of them played, Daly would be at fullback, so just looked to avoid that

Interesting choice to go Farrell at 10…

[Stom]

Fair enough on Marler > Genge (especially to support Singleton)

I disagree about Itoje / Kruis, I think that getting them good game time together against USA is more important, and I really doubt Lawes and Launchbury will be troubled in a way that Itoje / Kruis will solve

I was tempted by the Daly / Watson starting, but I felt that if both of them played, Daly would be at fullback, so just looked to avoid that

Interesting choice to go Farrell at 10…

I don't want big Tongans running at Ford. We need to wrap him in cotton wool. If Farrell goes down, he can still shout at players from the sideline...

[Renniks]

I don't want big Tongans running at Ford. We need to wrap him in cotton wool. If Farrell goes down, he can still shout at players from the sideline...

I don't want us to put 70 points on Tonga and Farrell to be heralded as the only player who could do that

[Stom]

I don't want big Tongans running at Ford. We need to wrap him in cotton wool. If Farrell goes down, he can still shout at players from the sideline...

I don't want us to put 70 points on Tonga and Farrell to be heralded as the only player who could do that

Trust me, with Farrell at 10, we won't put 70 on anyone.

[Puja]

I don't want big Tongans running at Ford. We need to wrap him in cotton wool. If Farrell goes down, he can still shout at players from the sideline...

I don't want us to put 70 points on Tonga and Farrell to be heralded as the only player who could do that

There'll be different 10s for both games, as there's a 4 day turnaround and a long travel, so Ford will start whochever one Farrell doesn't.

Mind, I'd still play Ford against Tonga - the USA are going to be weaker in defensive alignment and easier for our backs to pick off, so I'd rather have Farrell there.

Puja

[Banquo]

Kind of depends on what his 1st XV is, and we have no idea in midfield for example, do we? I'm slightly bothered about the time his first XV have actually played together, or even some of the units.

[Puja]

Kind of depends on what his 1st XV is, and we have no idea in midfield for example, do we? I'm slightly bothered about the time his first XV have actually played together, or even some of the units.

It's a fairly solid bet that the backline is Youngs, Ford, May, Farrell, Tuilagi, TBC, Daly, most of whom have quite a bit of experience playing wih each other. Manu's the odd one out and he knows Ford and May from Leicester and Farrell from England, so I'm not massively stressed.

Unless we see another volte-face and go back to Fazlet at 10, of course, in which case I'll be very stressed indeed.

Puja

[Oakboy]

How did we arrive with our 3rd choice hooker so woefully inexperienced? Add on the lack of a 3rd SH and taking three unfit players and the conclusion points to a pretty poor preparation. On top of that is Banquo's point about our 1st XV having no real practised cohesion as a unit.

The first two matches will still involve a degree of experimentation and crossing of fingers over injury concerns.

[Digby]

There's a great stat going around, courtesy I think of the 1014 site, that the last few sides to play in a winning RWC final had as a side previously played together a grand total of once. I could watch their latest video to see if that's what they're actually saying, but certainly side after side struggles to get experience as a side.

[Scrumhead]

How did we arrive with our 3rd choice hooker so woefully inexperienced? Add on the lack of a 3rd SH and taking three unfit players and the conclusion points to a pretty poor preparation. On top of that is Banquo's point about our 1st XV having no real practised cohesion as a unit.

The first two matches will still involve a degree of experimentation and crossing of fingers over injury concerns.

For the most part I agree with the criticism in your post, but I think Eddie was expecting to be able to call on Hartley, so giving experience to what would have been a fourth choice hooker wasn’t overly high on the priority list. We should have given Singleton a start against Italy as a bare minimum though.

[Renniks]

I'm not sure the 1014 post analysed how many had a settled team to get them to the final though…

Either way, I'm less concerned by our prep than if we were Irish or Welsh right now -- they have what feel like much more settled teams (or less choice) and aren't quite firing yet

The fact we might be playing one of our 10s as a centre is causing concern though!
It's currently looking likely that one of them will be expected to play nearly every minute of the tournament
Or, we end up with different 10/12 partnerships in the first 3 games which I don't like either!

[Stom]

I'm not sure the 1014 post analysed how many had a settled team to get them to the final though…

Either way, I'm less concerned by our prep than if we were Irish or Welsh right now -- they have what feel like much more settled teams (or less choice) and aren't quite firing yet

The fact we might be playing one of our 10s as a centre is causing concern though!
It's currently looking likely that one of them will be expected to play nearly every minute of the tournament
Or, we end up with different 10/12 partnerships in the first 3 games which I don't like either!

It did not.

It's a nice headline figure, but it more reflects the fact that the best teams don't have a best XV, they have a best XXV. There are only a few players in each who are undroppable, the rest can interchange.

I like that we have serious quality in some areas of the pitch but I don't like the lack of depth in other areas. And the lack of experience.

Genge looks like he'll be better prepared next time round, LCD too, Singleton too, Ludlam is a sudden parachute in, we have nothing at SH, no backup 10, and a bolter at wing. But at wing we also have a choice between May, Watson, Daly, Coka, and Nowell, which is pretty excellent.

And on the flanks, having Underhill, Curry and Wilson...

2nd row with Itoje, Kruis, Lawes, and Launch.

Centres with Farrell, Tuilagi, Joseph and Slade. Francis less so...

[Timbo]

It’s impossible to have every single base covered. Only have to take a cursory glance at the other top teams to see they all have inexperience in some areas, carrying 1 or 2 injured players, taking a chance on a lack of specialists in some areas, new combinations etc.

I think you’d have to have a particular bias/agenda against Eddie to describe our preparation and readiness for this World Cup as anything but good, tbh.

[Oakboy]

It’s impossible to have every single base covered. Only have to take a cursory glance at the other top teams to see they all have inexperience in some areas, carrying 1 or 2 injured players, taking a chance on a lack of specialists in some areas, new combinations etc.

I think you’d have to have a particular bias/agenda against Eddie to describe our preparation and readiness for this World Cup as anything but good, tbh.

1 or 2 injured players, maybe, provided neither was a prop. Three, including a prop, is rather more of a gamble. I accept the bias accusation, to an extent, but insist that there was plenty of time to give Singleton game time and to prepare a better SH selection.

[Renniks]

It seems to have come together, but I really do struggle with the (potentially) hundreds of caps built up in his tenure that have just disappeared from the squad, even if they were right at the time!

Robshaw, Brown, Hartley, Hughes, Te'o, Care

And then the likes of Haskell, Ashton, Simmonds, Williams, Hepburn, Lozowski, Wood, Harrison, Solomona, Shields

Who I think he's given quite a few caps to in total

(And, it's not the isolated instances that frustrate me… it's the combined total --- how often were these players not seen as the best options but picked anyway)