Tonga

[Scrumhead]

Only some of that is fair IMO.

Caps were certainly wasted on Hughes and Te’o, but in a four year cycle there is bound to be transition.

Wood and Haskell picked up the majority of their caps early in Eddie’s tenure, before the likes of Curry or Underhill were options. I’d argue that Brown, Care and to a lesser extent, Robshaw, all still have a good claim to be in the squad.

Hartley and Shields would have been there but for injuries and Ashton might have been had he not withdrawn, so again, not really wasted caps.

Harrison and Solomona had the form to justify selection when they were picked but were moved on quickly when they were found wanting.

Simmonds, Hepburn and Lozowski aren’t in the mix now but weren’t wasted caps and could still be a part of our future squads.

My only real issue is with the timing of binning Care and bringing in Heinz. If he was going to do that, why didn’t he do it ages ago? With Te’o and Hughes, I think he was so desperate for it to work, that he held on for way longer than he should have.

Making out that all of the capped players you referenced were a waste is bs though.

[fivepointer]

Russ Petty on twitter (@rpetty80) has some interesting stats on average caps per WC squad, new caps over 2016-19 and new caps from 1996.
England have fielded 37 new caps since 2016 (ave 0.8 per test)
Ireland have put out 40 (0.9 per test) and SA 47 (1.1 per test). NZ are at 36 new caps (0.8 per test)
Unsurprisingly France have capped 60 new players.

[Scrumhead]

It’s impossible to have every single base covered. Only have to take a cursory glance at the other top teams to see they all have inexperience in some areas, carrying 1 or 2 injured players, taking a chance on a lack of specialists in some areas, new combinations etc.

I think you’d have to have a particular bias/agenda against Eddie to describe our preparation and readiness for this World Cup as anything but good, tbh.

100% agree with this Timbo. Eddie has made some big calls late in the day, but hasn’t taken too many gambles.

NZ are without Squire who likely would have been first choice 6 and McKenzie who would certainly have been their go to 23. Hansen’s made some gambles too binning off Franks at the 11th hour and Naholo a little earlier. In their places, he’s called up an inexperienced pair of reserve props in Moli and Ta’avo and rookie wingers in Reece and Bridge.

Gatland’s taking Carre instead of Evans and Schmidt’s taking Kleyn over Toner etc.

The point is, there are plenty of examples of late changes of heart and injury enforced switches. Our preparation has been fine and Eddie hasn’t gambles any more than other Tier 1 coaches.

[Renniks]

Making out that all of the capped players you referenced were a waste is bs though.

It wasn't that each one of them was a waste - but how many caps were used on them, and now none of them are in the 31…

It's the cumulative issue and the fact that we've now got a squad that looks good, but lacks a depth of experience

*Shrug*

[Stom]

It would be great to have more experience.

But, and let's be fair, apart from a few screw ups, it's been tough to pick a consistent squad.

There are many mitigating factors.

If Boyd had arrived at Saints a year earlier...maybe Ludlam would have more caps now.

If Clifford had stayed injury free, maybe he'd be in the squad instead with a bag of caps.

If Robson hadn't got DVT, maybe he'd have a decentish haul and be in the squad.

If Simmonds hadn't had his injuries, maybe he'd have been selected.

If Willis hadn't played judo, maybe he'd have a bunch of caps and be starting at 6.

If Hartley had suffered his problems a year earlier, maybe both LCD and Singleton would have a decent haul of caps by now.


The list goes on.

There's only really 1 baffling call in the squad, and that's McChonnochie. He's only there because Eddie has a man crush on the tattooed fisherman.

Plus he could have handled the SH situation better.

Other than that...not much wrong. It's normal for someone to bolt into the squad and I'm glad it's Ludlam taking Shield's place. It'd be great if Dombrandt was the reserve, too!

[Raggs]

Jones hadn't done Judo. Willis would have needed to not break his ankle, then be a double hard bastard, play on that broken ankle, and do his knee too a week later. From what I understand, it's the ankle that meant he missed most of last season too.

[Scrumhead]

Eh? Sam Jones was the judo victim.

Are you saying Jack Willis broke his ankle the week before he did his knee ligaments?

[Raggs]

Eh? Sam Jones was the judo victim.

Are you saying Jack Willis broke his ankle the week before he did his knee ligaments?

I was pointing out that in the list Stom has Willis down as the judo victim, when it was Jones.

Yes, Willis broke his ankle against Newcastle, the week before the Sarries game.

[fivepointer]

It would be great to have more experience.

But, and let's be fair, apart from a few screw ups, it's been tough to pick a consistent squad.

There are many mitigating factors.

If Boyd had arrived at Saints a year earlier...maybe Ludlam would have more caps now.

If Clifford had stayed injury free, maybe he'd be in the squad instead with a bag of caps.

If Robson hadn't got DVT, maybe he'd have a decentish haul and be in the squad.

If Simmonds hadn't had his injuries, maybe he'd have been selected.

If Willis hadn't played judo, maybe he'd have a bunch of caps and be starting at 6.

If Hartley had suffered his problems a year earlier, maybe both LCD and Singleton would have a decent haul of caps by now.


The list goes on.

There's only really 1 baffling call in the squad, and that's McChonnochie. He's only there because Eddie has a man crush on the tattooed fisherman.

Plus he could have handled the SH situation better.

Other than that...not much wrong. It's normal for someone to bolt into the squad and I'm glad it's Ludlam taking Shield's place. It'd be great if Dombrandt was the reserve, too!

I'd go along with this.

I'd argue that Jones SHOULD have handled the SH position better, though. Its been a major blindspot throughout his tenure as coach.

Otherwise I'm not too stressed that a few experienced players miss out and a few newer ones have got picked. The squad is largely settled and, though there are some players justifiably disappointed, its very hard to conclude that Jones has left out anyone who absolutely had to be picked.

[p/d]

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

[Stom]

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

Which means we need to make sure Tonga don't knock his head off in the first match!

[p/d]

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

Which means we need to make sure Tonga don't knock his head off in the first match!

Yep

[Oakboy]

So, amid the praise for Jones (odd, IMO) what is the reasonable expectation for this squad under this coaching crew? QF?

[Stom]

So, amid the praise for Jones (odd, IMO) what is the reasonable expectation for this squad under this coaching crew? QF?

The final

[Raggs]

Semi final is reasonable. Final perhaps expected.

[p/d]

So, amid the praise for Jones (odd, IMO) what is the reasonable expectation for this squad under this coaching crew? QF?

I still have little to no time for him and somewhat pissed he is England coach. That said every respect for the players and expect them to get us to last four and then who knows

[Puja]

Aren't we due another minimum requirements thread and poll?

Puja

[Puja]

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

Not really possible. The games against Tonga and USA have a 4 day turnaround and are at opposite ends of the country, so we have to rotate for the first two games or risk burning everybody out. I would want two completely different starting XVs for those games.

Puja

[Which Tyler]

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

Not really possible. The games against Tonga and USA have a 4 day turnaround and are at opposite ends of the country, so we have to rotate for the first two games or risk burning everybody out. I would want two completely different starting XVs for those games.

Puja

Ideally, yes.
But that would mean the injured players returning ahead of schedule, and Singleton starting in the backrow

[Danno]

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

Not really possible. The games against Tonga and USA have a 4 day turnaround and are at opposite ends of the country, so we have to rotate for the first two games or risk burning everybody out. I would want two completely different starting XVs for those games.

Puja

Ideally, yes.
But that would mean the injured players returning ahead of schedule, and Singleton starting in the backrow

Which starkly illustrates how barking the prop/SH selection is

[Banquo]

I do have a couple of quibbles with the composition of the squad, rather than the personnel. The prep has gone reasonably well, bar Mako, and a concern over walking wounded. My concerns remain over our performances in the last truly competitive games, and the apparent volte-volte face in midfield, plus quality at 9 (all three of which are related). The eeyore in me is not reading too much into the Ireland game, and remembering that the longer England are in training camps....

We do have the core of a very good and competitive team when all fit; I wouldn't trade Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Wilson, Billy, May for many players, with Kruis, Lawes, Curry, Underhill, Manu, JJ, Watson, Ford and Daly (and others) up there. Faz is a great bench option . Its how they are used that worries me, but lets hope that we are trying to fix our wide defence, rein back on kicking, up the ante on execution when kicking and especially chasing, being precise at the breakdown, and looking to put pace into the game with carrying and offloading, and carry on reducing daft penalty count. Its not much to ask.

[Oakboy]

I do have a couple of quibbles with the composition of the squad, rather than the personnel. The prep has gone reasonably well, bar Mako, and a concern over walking wounded. My concerns remain over our performances in the last truly competitive games, and the apparent volte-volte face in midfield, plus quality at 9 (all three of which are related). The eeyore in me is not reading too much into the Ireland game, and remembering that the longer England are in training camps....

We do have the core of a very good and competitive team when all fit; I wouldn't trade Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Wilson, Billy, May for many players, with Kruis, Lawes, Curry, Underhill, Manu, JJ, Watson, Ford and Daly (and others) up there. Faz is a great bench option . Its how they are used that worries me, but lets hope that we are trying to fix our wide defence, rein back on kicking, up the ante on execution when kicking and especially chasing, being precise at the breakdown, and looking to put pace into the game with carrying and offloading, and carry on reducing daft penalty count. Its not much to ask.

Spot on.

Unfortunately, IMO, the coaching crew, even with Mitchell's arrival, do not share the opinion of your penultimate sentence about how the game should be played. Even if they did, I don't think they have the coaching skills and selectorial ability to achieve it to the maximum possible degree of effectiveness.

As for the standard of the playing resources, with the right coaching crew, we ought to be favourites. (Mind you, we should have been unbeaten in at least the 18 months leading up to this point.)

[jngf]

I’d be reluctant to play any of Ford, Curry, Billy, Itoje or May in either the Tonga or USA matches - Eddie has pushed his luck to the limit so far regarding injuries. Think Wilson needs more time to practice the 8 role (though he wouldn’t have been my preference as a back up when picking original squad) and I’m a bit confused as to how Eddie views Curry now - will he still be picking him at 7 going forwards?

[TheDasher]

I do have a couple of quibbles with the composition of the squad, rather than the personnel. The prep has gone reasonably well, bar Mako, and a concern over walking wounded. My concerns remain over our performances in the last truly competitive games, and the apparent volte-volte face in midfield, plus quality at 9 (all three of which are related). The eeyore in me is not reading too much into the Ireland game, and remembering that the longer England are in training camps....

We do have the core of a very good and competitive team when all fit; I wouldn't trade Mako, George, Sinckler, Itoje, Wilson, Billy, May for many players, with Kruis, Lawes, Curry, Underhill, Manu, JJ, Watson, Ford and Daly (and others) up there. Faz is a great bench option . Its how they are used that worries me, but lets hope that we are trying to fix our wide defence, rein back on kicking, up the ante on execution when kicking and especially chasing, being precise at the breakdown, and looking to put pace into the game with carrying and offloading, and carry on reducing daft penalty count. Its not much to ask.

Spot on.

Unfortunately, IMO, the coaching crew, even with Mitchell's arrival, do not share the opinion of your penultimate sentence about how the game should be played. Even if they did, I don't think they have the coaching skills and selectorial ability to achieve it to the maximum possible degree of effectiveness.

As for the standard of the playing resources, with the right coaching crew, we ought to be favourites. (Mind you, we should have been unbeaten in at least the 18 months leading up to this point.)

In terms of being favourites, I think we're right up there. On a good day, I think we'll be bloody difficult to contain... we have so much pace and power and some really decent players with genuine guile now. My only worry is this ability to implode, like in the second half against Scotland. I think though with Ford and Farrell playing together, as much as I've never liked it, we seem to have kicked on recently and I suspect we'll have better control than in the farce against Scotland.

Love Eddie or not, our matchday squad looks really genuinely very strong indeed.

[Beasties]

It could've been stronger though. I think Eddie has been very fortunate with the timing of injuries and the emergence of some genuine talent at the right time, and he's sort of stumbled upon a decent squad at the death. I still don't get the gamble on McConnochie over the proven qualities of Brown though. Some of my other concerns have been done to death on here and we all appear to have resigned ourselves to the fact that we are where we are.

If we do well it'll be in spite of Eddie to a degree rather than because of him imo.