Underhill wants to play for England

[Mellsblue]

I believe the RFU are happy for this to be an exceptional circumstance but PRL are digging their heels. Perhaps the RFU think PRL can be persuaded by the Autumn with the logic that the reason he moved to Cardiff is because one of their members weren't flexible enough to understand a young player would want to carry on with his education, or perhaps the lorry loads of £100 notes making their way to the PRL clubs next season may soften their stance.

Why would this be an exceptional circumstance compared with, say Armitage or Abendanon?

One of the reasons is further on in my post. There's also that he didn't move on a pro-contract, he isn't yet tied to England, he wasn't anywhere near a 1stXV let alone the Eng team when he moved and the fact he is 1 year through a 3 year degree so has reasons to stay in Wales beyond rugby. I'm sure there are more.

[Digby]

If the RFU are paying off PRL in £100 notes then even PRL should notice there's something askew.

As if they care where the money comes from as long as it's in a large enough quantity.

£5, 10, 20 or 50 notes fine. £100 notes should cause some concern.

[twitchy]

How tedious.

[Mellsblue]

If the RFU are paying off PRL in £100 notes then even PRL should notice there's something askew.

As if they care where the money comes from as long as it's in a large enough quantity.

£5, 10, 20 or 50 notes fine. £100 notes should cause some concern.

It could come in drachma but as long as there were enough lorries they would be happy.

[Puja]

I believe the RFU are happy for this to be an exceptional circumstance but PRL are digging their heels. Perhaps the RFU think PRL can be persuaded by the Autumn with the logic that the reason he moved to Cardiff is because one of their members weren't flexible enough to understand a young player would want to carry on with his education, or perhaps the lorry loads of £100 notes making their way to the PRL clubs next season may soften their stance.

Why would this be an exceptional circumstance compared with, say Armitage or Abendanon?

I'm torn on this. I could give a bunch of reasons about him being in university, etc, but I'm aware that I would be working backwards from a desire to pick him.

Come to think of it, the fact that he didn't go there for rugby and is working through his uni degree is largely irrelevant. He could move to Bath or Gloucester and commute to Cardiff uni quite easily. This is exactly the same situation as Armitage - he moved when playing for England wasn't even a blip on thr horizon and now that it's a real possibility, he can move back to an English club if he wants to take it up.

It's far less dangerous than Armitage, of course, as there's zero risk of Welsh clubs buying out all our players, but the principle should remain the same.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

I believe the RFU are happy for this to be an exceptional circumstance but PRL are digging their heels. Perhaps the RFU think PRL can be persuaded by the Autumn with the logic that the reason he moved to Cardiff is because one of their members weren't flexible enough to understand a young player would want to carry on with his education, or perhaps the lorry loads of £100 notes making their way to the PRL clubs next season may soften their stance.

Why would this be an exceptional circumstance compared with, say Armitage or Abendanon?

I'm torn on this. I could give a bunch of reasons about him being in university, etc, but I'm aware that I would be working backwards from a desire to pick him.

Come to think of it, the fact that he didn't go there for rugby and is working through his uni degree is largely irrelevant. He could move to Bath or Gloucester and commute to Cardiff uni quite easily. This is exactly the same situation as Armitage - he moved when playing for England wasn't even a blip on thr horizon and now that it's a real possibility, he can move back to an English club if he wants to take it up.

It's far less dangerous than Armitage, of course, as there's zero risk of Welsh clubs buying out all our players, but the principle should remain the same.

Puja

Armitage the professional, capped rugby player is the same as a 19 year old academy player?

[Puja]

Why would this be an exceptional circumstance compared with, say Armitage or Abendanon?

I'm torn on this. I could give a bunch of reasons about him being in university, etc, but I'm aware that I would be working backwards from a desire to pick him.

Come to think of it, the fact that he didn't go there for rugby and is working through his uni degree is largely irrelevant. He could move to Bath or Gloucester and commute to Cardiff uni quite easily. This is exactly the same situation as Armitage - he moved when playing for England wasn't even a blip on thr horizon and now that it's a real possibility, he can move back to an English club if he wants to take it up.

It's far less dangerous than Armitage, of course, as there's zero risk of Welsh clubs buying out all our players, but the principle should remain the same.

Puja

Armitage the professional, capped rugby player is the same as a 19 year old academy player?

If we're talking about picking him for the full England team, then we're treating him like a professional rugby player. If he's playing in Wales, then he's not eligible for any EPS training time, he's not available for every England game, and there's the potential for things like him having to go back to his club mid-6N to play in the rest weeks.

I'd like him to play, but I'd be a colossal hypocrite if I were to go from years of saying, "Armitage knows the rules and if he wants to play for England, he can move back to the AP," when Underhill's got the same option.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

I'm torn on this. I could give a bunch of reasons about him being in university, etc, but I'm aware that I would be working backwards from a desire to pick him.

Come to think of it, the fact that he didn't go there for rugby and is working through his uni degree is largely irrelevant. He could move to Bath or Gloucester and commute to Cardiff uni quite easily. This is exactly the same situation as Armitage - he moved when playing for England wasn't even a blip on thr horizon and now that it's a real possibility, he can move back to an English club if he wants to take it up.

It's far less dangerous than Armitage, of course, as there's zero risk of Welsh clubs buying out all our players, but the principle should remain the same.

Puja

Armitage the professional, capped rugby player is the same as a 19 year old academy player?

If he's playing in Wales, then he's not eligible for any EPS training time, he's not available for every England game, and there's the potential for things like him having to go back to his club mid-6N to play in the rest weeks.

Puja

Not sure how this applies to a Saxons tour.

It's only hypocrisy if you view it as exactly the same set of conditions which, for me, they aren't.

My biggest, overriding feeling is that all young rugby players should be encouraged to educate themselves as much as possible. I think taking himself out of his comfort zone and pushing himself whilst making himself a more rounded individual should be rewarded not penalised. The fact is, he left the England because his club/academy wouldn't accommodate his wish to gain a degree, to then say you either come back or we penalise you is illogical at best.

[Peat]

I believe the RFU are happy for this to be an exceptional circumstance but PRL are digging their heels. Perhaps the RFU think PRL can be persuaded by the Autumn with the logic that the reason he moved to Cardiff is because one of their members weren't flexible enough to understand a young player would want to carry on with his education, or perhaps the lorry loads of £100 notes making their way to the PRL clubs next season may soften their stance.

Why would this be an exceptional circumstance compared with, say Armitage or Abendanon?

There's been a lot of intelligent answers to this but I think people are looking in the wrong direction and I reckon the right answer is that Eddie's keener on Underhill than Lancaster was on Armitage and Bendy, and that Eddie's also a lot bolshier.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I believe the RFU are happy for this to be an exceptional circumstance but PRL are digging their heels. Perhaps the RFU think PRL can be persuaded by the Autumn with the logic that the reason he moved to Cardiff is because one of their members weren't flexible enough to understand a young player would want to carry on with his education, or perhaps the lorry loads of £100 notes making their way to the PRL clubs next season may soften their stance.

Why would this be an exceptional circumstance compared with, say Armitage or Abendanon?

There's been a lot of intelligent answers to this but I think people are looking in the wrong direction and I reckon the right answer is that Eddie's keener on Underhill than Lancaster was on Armitage and Bendy, and that Eddie's also a lot bolshier.

Nail meets head!

[Mellsblue]

I believe the RFU are happy for this to be an exceptional circumstance but PRL are digging their heels. Perhaps the RFU think PRL can be persuaded by the Autumn with the logic that the reason he moved to Cardiff is because one of their members weren't flexible enough to understand a young player would want to carry on with his education, or perhaps the lorry loads of £100 notes making their way to the PRL clubs next season may soften their stance.

Why would this be an exceptional circumstance compared with, say Armitage or Abendanon?

There's been a lot of intelligent answers to this but I think people are looking in the wrong direction and I reckon the right answer is that Eddie's keener on Underhill than Lancaster was on Armitage and Bendy, and that Eddie's also a lot bolshier.

Ha, yep. For all the ifs, buts and maybes this is the crux of the matter.

[Doorzetbornandbred]

Armitage the professional, capped rugby player is the same as a 19 year old academy player?

If he's playing in Wales, then he's not eligible for any EPS training time, he's not available for every England game, and there's the potential for things like him having to go back to his club mid-6N to play in the rest weeks.

Puja

Not sure how this applies to a Saxons tour.

It's only hypocrisy if you view it as exactly the same set of conditions which, for me, they aren't.

My biggest, overriding feeling is that all young rugby players should be encouraged to educate themselves as much as possible. I think taking himself out of his comfort zone and pushing himself whilst making himself a more rounded individual should be rewarded not penalised. The fact is, he left the England because his club/academy wouldn't accommodate his wish to gain a degree, to then say you either come back or we penalise you is illogical at best.

Im on the understanding that recently the RFU told the Premiership clubs that Academy players had to be able to have the chance to get A levels as well as rugby stuff which is why Chiefs Academy has just shifted from Bicton to Exeter College as they offered A levels unlike Bicton.