Tonga

[Digby]

On the idea of reining back on kicking Eddie is on record as saying with the players likely to have sweaty hands in Japan we could need to kick more. Is that just to be filed under crap Eddie says? Will our games be all that humid, and how long might the tournament stay humid?

[p/d]

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

Not really possible. The games against Tonga and USA have a 4 day turnaround and are at opposite ends of the country, so we have to rotate for the first two games or risk burning everybody out. I would want two completely different starting XVs for those games.

Puja

Just don't get that, four day turnaround or not.

Start big for first 40 against Tonga and let them build a platform for the bench '2nd stringers' to dance on for the second forty.

Try and repeat v USA.

[Danno]

Typhoon season lasts into October, with accompanying humidity levels. It'll be greasy

Presumably everyone will kick more as a result. I hope Daly is training four hours a day on nothing but bombs

[Which Tyler]

Typhoon season lasts into October, with accompanying humidity levels. It'll be greasy

Presumably everyone will kick more as a result. I hope Daly is training four hours a day on nothing but bombs

On the other hand, it's Eddie - so we're probably planning a running game

[Digby]

I keep misreading this thread title, to me this thread appears to be about

[Puja]

It could've been stronger though. I think Eddie has been very fortunate with the timing of injuries and the emergence of some genuine talent at the right time, and he's sort of stumbled upon a decent squad at the death. I still don't get the gamble on McConnochie over the proven qualities of Brown though. Some of my other concerns have been done to death on here and we all appear to have resigned ourselves to the fact that we are where we are.

If we do well it'll be in spite of Eddie to a degree rather than because of him imo.

I think it's like Gatland - whatever your feelings, if he brings success then you've got to acknowledge that maybe he did know what he was doing after all. We'll see whether he does before that judgement is made though...

Put out the strongest available XV, and repeat right through. We need momentum not flawed excuses for a poor performance.

I want to see little Fordy holding the golden goblet above his head, not a 2 page spread by SCW on how Eddie’s ‘fiddling’ let down the Ice Man

Not really possible. The games against Tonga and USA have a 4 day turnaround and are at opposite ends of the country, so we have to rotate for the first two games or risk burning everybody out. I would want two completely different starting XVs for those games.

Puja

Just don't get that, four day turnaround or not.

Start big for first 40 against Tonga and let them build a platform for the bench '2nd stringers' to dance on for the second forty.

Try and repeat v USA.

We're hardly short of match practice! No-one's likely to get rusty if they play one game in four days rather than two, but there's a better than average chance that someone might get injured. And for what? With the greatest respect to Tonga and the USA (one for the GB thread), if we need our first XV to get 5 points against them, then we won't be in a shape to progress anyway.

Puja

[Renniks]

If we don't get 5 points against anyone, but win all our games, are we guaranteed to top the group? (I can't remember if it works like the 6 nations)

[Stom]

It could've been stronger though. I think Eddie has been very fortunate with the timing of injuries and the emergence of some genuine talent at the right time, and he's sort of stumbled upon a decent squad at the death. I still don't get the gamble on McConnochie over the proven qualities of Brown though. Some of my other concerns have been done to death on here and we all appear to have resigned ourselves to the fact that we are where we are.

If we do well it'll be in spite of Eddie to a degree rather than because of him imo.

I think it's like Gatland - whatever your feelings, if he brings success then you've got to acknowledge that maybe he did know what he was doing after all. We'll see whether he does before that judgement is made though...

Not really possible. The games against Tonga and USA have a 4 day turnaround and are at opposite ends of the country, so we have to rotate for the first two games or risk burning everybody out. I would want two completely different starting XVs for those games.

Puja

Just don't get that, four day turnaround or not.

Start big for first 40 against Tonga and let them build a platform for the bench '2nd stringers' to dance on for the second forty.

Try and repeat v USA.

We're hardly short of match practice! No-one's likely to get rusty if they play one game in four days rather than two, but there's a better than average chance that someone might get injured. And for what? With the greatest respect to Tonga and the USA (one for the GB thread), if we need our first XV to get 5 points against them, then we won't be in a shape to progress anyway.

Puja

If Farrell is at 10 for the whole 160 minutes, I reckon we only get 9 points...

[Puja]

If we don't get 5 points against anyone, but win all our games, are we guaranteed to top the group? (I can't remember if it works like the 6 nations)

No, it's not like the 6N - it's just the number of points, like the ERC.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

OK, but if we win all of our games without BPs that would give us 16 points.

To better that the second placed team would most likely need to have 3 bonus point wins (15 points) + 2 losing bonus points against us. It’s not impossible (for example we could score 3 converted tries and beat a team who score 4 without converting any of them) but that would be pretty unlikely.

[Renniks]

OK, but if we win all of our games without BPs that would give us 16 points.

To better that the second placed team would most likely need to have 3 bonus point wins (15 points) + 2 losing bonus points against us. It’s not impossible (for example we could score 3 converted tries and beat a team who score 4 without converting any of them) but that would be pretty unlikely.

Does it come down to victories or PD if equal on points?

[Puja]

OK, but if we win all of our games without BPs that would give us 16 points.

To better that the second placed team would most likely need to have 3 bonus point wins (15 points) + 2 losing bonus points against us. It’s not impossible (for example we could score 3 converted tries and beat a team who score 4 without converting any of them) but that would be pretty unlikely.

Does it come down to victories or PD if equal on points?

Victories initially, unless there are three teams equal. So Scrumhead's right that it'd require a perfect 2nd place and a worst possible score to not be top with a 100% record. And in that situation, you'd find it hard to argue that you were robbed.

Puja

[jngf]

One thing I’m wondering - who is in pole position for the 6 shirt in the first choice XV?

Whilst it’s been exciting to see Ludlum and Curry re-interpret the blindside role somewhat, I still think Wilson should be picked there (for instance his carrying and work rate eclipse what I’ve seen from Curry in that berth and think the latter’s much more of an out and out 7 at this level).

[Puja]

One thing I’m wondering - who is in pole position for the 6 shirt in the first choice XV?

Whilst it’s been exciting to see Ludlum and Curry re-interpret the blindside role somewhat, I still think Wilson should be picked there (for instance his carrying and work rate eclipse what I’ve seen from Curry in that berth and think the latter’s much more of an out and out 7 at this level).

Agreed. I think Curry and Underhill is a fun option and nice to know that it can be done, but Wilson is still our best 6 and Curry is definitely an out-and-out 7.

Puja

[Banquo]

Wilson is imo the class act of our flankers, and first choice at 6 for me.

[Digby]

Wilson has done well when picked so to drop him is a risk. if the replacement plays brilliantly fine, but if not you've dropped a player for playing well and that tends to cause problems

[Danno]

Wilson looked to the manor born once he got the shirt. It just isn't up for debate, unless you're Eddie.

[Oakboy]

Wilson is imo the class act of our flankers, and first choice at 6 for me.

Agreed, together with Curry at 7 and Billy at 8, Wilson just naturally gives balance and control. I still believe that Wilson is too good a 6 to bugger him about with moving to 8 other than very occasionally once a game is won. I'd have taken Kvesic ahead of Ludlum and used him as 8 cover.

[Renniks]

I'd start Curry and Vunipola against decent teams without a moments thought

I'd then be happy enough with either Underhill or Wilson starting / benching - I think Wilson looks more natural at international level, but when Underhill has a good game he's really impressive

I wouldn't expect to see Ludlam, Lawes, Singleton, or Itoje coming in to the back-row for any important games unless there are injuries
And would still be pretty miffed to see them in the first two games as well!

[jngf]

Wilson is imo the class act of our flankers, and first choice at 6 for me.

I certainly agree he’s our best specialist 6 and arguably our most versatile back row however I’m not sure he has an X-factor for any position in the way Underhill (in terms of defence and more recently jackling) and Billy (in terms of hard yards carrying and offloading) do.

[Banquo]

Wilson is imo the class act of our flankers, and first choice at 6 for me.

I certainly agree he’s our best specialist 6 and arguably our most versatile back row however I’m not sure he has an X-factor for any position in the way Underhill (in terms of defence and more recently jackling) and Billy (in terms of hard yards carrying and offloading) do.

His decision making and work rate are exceptional. I specifically said flanker rather than back row.

[TheDasher]

Wilson is imo the class act of our flankers, and first choice at 6 for me.

I agree that he's a class act but wouldn't say he's THE class act on his own... Curry has been a revelation too imo.

[Digby]

Is everyone sold on Curry now, you don't have to go back far to find a good number picking Underhill over Curry

[Beasties]

Ludlum's been the revelation for me. I've hardly seen him this season, I've been happy with Curry and Underhill (who's improved a lot) for the final squad. I'd dared not hope both would be in the squad a few months ago given Eddie's oddities and love of mediocre southern hemisphere players. To have all three plus Wilson occupying the flanker births is just dandy.

[Oakboy]

Is everyone sold on Curry now, you don't have to go back far to find a good number picking Underhill over Curry

I think lots simply think a 7 should be shorter and stumpier.