top 100 players

[Mikey Brown]

At 7?

[Puja]

One couldn't say that backrow lacked carrying though!

Puja

[Timbo]

I don’t think Fofana or Ringrose should be anywhere near a world XV right now, personally.

[Puja]

I don’t think Fofana or Ringrose should be anywhere near a world XV right now, personally.

Who would you have in the centres? It's not a strong position globally.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Bingo, Porky.

But, that list as a whole is a piece of crap.

I know it's really tough to pick a 100 top players list because each position is different.

But if you were picking your World XV, your 10 wouldn't be "nailed on Barrett".

So I don't see how he's #1.

Your first pick at lock would probably be Retallick, while Mako would be first pick 1, surely. If you're looking elsewhere, is there any other position where the first player you'd pick for the position is the obvious choice?

Billy at 8? Smith at SH? A case can be made for Whitelock.

So surely the top 5 would be, in no particular order:

Retallick, Mako, Billy, Smith, Whitelock.

Then you can get into the others. Furlong, May (not in the top 20? My arse: he's been consistently excellent on the wing for a good while now. No-one in the NH comes close and NZ have just changed their wings, so I'd say he's literally the best wing in the world right now), Barrett, Pocock. OK, maybe Pocock gets into the top 5, too...

I'd agree with most of that. If I were picking a World XV tomorrow (if everyone was fit), I'd probably have:

Mako
George/Coles
Sinckler
Retallick
...probably Whitelock, but Ryan, AWJ, and Itoje would be close.
Du Toit
Pocock
BillyV

Smith
Not sure, but certainly not f*cking Farrell as he's not even the best English 10. Probably Barrett actually
May
Fofana
Ringrose
Kolby? Not sure
Hogg

So I'd say all 15 of those would be ahead of Farrell at the bare minimum.

Puja

Was there or there about until Retallick and after that it all went a bit weird. Smith, Billy and May aside.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I don’t think Fofana or Ringrose should be anywhere near a world XV right now, personally.

Who would you have in the centres? It's not a strong position globally.

Puja

There’s a half decent lad in wales called Davies. Think he’s got a future.

[Cameo]

I'm not sure that just because you are one of the five nailed on in a world 15 you are necessarily one of the five best players in the world. Surely the two best players might just happen to play in one position.

[Puja]

Bingo, Porky.

But, that list as a whole is a piece of crap.

I know it's really tough to pick a 100 top players list because each position is different.

But if you were picking your World XV, your 10 wouldn't be "nailed on Barrett".

So I don't see how he's #1.

Your first pick at lock would probably be Retallick, while Mako would be first pick 1, surely. If you're looking elsewhere, is there any other position where the first player you'd pick for the position is the obvious choice?

Billy at 8? Smith at SH? A case can be made for Whitelock.

So surely the top 5 would be, in no particular order:

Retallick, Mako, Billy, Smith, Whitelock.

Then you can get into the others. Furlong, May (not in the top 20? My arse: he's been consistently excellent on the wing for a good while now. No-one in the NH comes close and NZ have just changed their wings, so I'd say he's literally the best wing in the world right now), Barrett, Pocock. OK, maybe Pocock gets into the top 5, too...

I'd agree with most of that. If I were picking a World XV tomorrow (if everyone was fit), I'd probably have:

Mako
George/Coles
Sinckler
Retallick
...probably Whitelock, but Ryan, AWJ, and Itoje would be close.
Du Toit
Pocock
BillyV

Smith
Not sure, but certainly not f*cking Farrell as he's not even the best English 10. Probably Barrett actually
May
Fofana
Ringrose
Kolby? Not sure
Hogg

So I'd say all 15 of those would be ahead of Farrell at the bare minimum.

Puja

Was there or there about until Retallick and after that it all went a bit weird. Smith, Billy and May aside.

Go on then - off you go with your XV! I make no claims to infullibility and I would be interested to know who you'd pick.

Puja

[morepork]

At 7?

Currently, yeah, but think he will end up an 8 soon.

[JellyHead]

Mummy vinopola must be pretty proud.

[Banquo]

I don't know NZ have any much better options than Farrell at 12, maybe Crotty if his head wasn't made of paper mâché, Crotty has better decision making but doesn't have the same passing game.

Also on Farrell, he's rated by a huge number of players across the game, so it's possible we're quite wrong in our preference for not picking him

ALB and SBW are not only good acronyms but also excellent 12's. Crotty is a bit glass jawed but is an excellent 12 and 13, though somewhat under-rated outside NZ.

The Faz mystery continues; he's become a reasonably solid international player, but that's it. And his passing left to right if its any more than 3 yards is still poor, I don't think he even tries a long pass that way any more. Maybe I'm just picky.

[Digby]

I don't know NZ have any much better options than Farrell at 12, maybe Crotty if his head wasn't made of paper mâché, Crotty has better decision making but doesn't have the same passing game.

Also on Farrell, he's rated by a huge number of players across the game, so it's possible we're quite wrong in our preference for not picking him

ALB and SBW are not only good acronyms but also excellent 12's. Crotty is a bit glass jawed but is an excellent 12 and 13, though somewhat under-rated outside NZ.

The Faz mystery continues; he's become a reasonably solid international player, but that's it. And his passing left to right if its any more than 3 yards is still poor, I don't think he even tries a long pass that way any more. Maybe I'm just picky.

SBW is an odd one, a brilliant individual player, akin to Folau in a different role, but all over the place with his teamwork, positioning and decision making. ALB is okay, but nothing special. And critically neither SBW or ALB is an acronym

And yes there are problems with Farrell's passing, but none of the Kiwi options at 12 could fairy be described as better, one might argue with Crotty in particular he has better decision making around the shorter passes, but none of them are close to Faz's wider passing game, and Faz has much faster distribution albeit a little haphazard, especially as noted off his left (though I still recall his fling off the right 5m behind Mike Brown in Dublin with a certain fondness)

[morepork]

I don't know NZ have any much better options than Farrell at 12, maybe Crotty if his head wasn't made of paper mâché, Crotty has better decision making but doesn't have the same passing game.

Also on Farrell, he's rated by a huge number of players across the game, so it's possible we're quite wrong in our preference for not picking him

ALB and SBW are not only good acronyms but also excellent 12's. Crotty is a bit glass jawed but is an excellent 12 and 13, though somewhat under-rated outside NZ.

The Faz mystery continues; he's become a reasonably solid international player, but that's it. And his passing left to right if its any more than 3 yards is still poor, I don't think he even tries a long pass that way any more. Maybe I'm just picky.

SBW is an odd one, a brilliant individual player, akin to Folau in a different role, but all over the place with his teamwork, positioning and decision making. ALB is okay, but nothing special. And critically neither SBW or ALB is an acronym

And yes there are problems with Farrell's passing, but none of the Kiwi options at 12 could fairy be described as better, one might argue with Crotty in particular he has better decision making around the shorter passes, but none of them are close to Faz's wider passing game, and Faz has much faster distribution albeit a little haphazard, especially as noted off his left (though I still recall his fling off the right 5m behind Mike Brown in Dublin with a certain fondness)

ALB is a completely different animal to Farrell. ALB is an offload monster and seldom makes errors doing it. He can do what Farrell struggles so painfully with, and that is releasing people outside him. Sounds like a useful skill for a 12 to me.

[Stom]

I'm not sure that just because you are one of the five nailed on in a world 15 you are necessarily one of the five best players in the world. Surely the two best players might just happen to play in one position.

It's so hard to judge the comparative merits of rugby players who play different roles, though, so it's a good barometer if they are the absolute best in their role.

I don't think anyone could argue with Mako, Retallick, Billy, Smith, or May being the respective best in their positions. The rest...there are arguments to be had.

Sure, Barrett likely comes out on top in the battle of the 10s, but I don't think he's nailed on the best in the world.

And there's no problem with 2 positions being in the top 5, but can you name 2 absolutely stand out 10s? Who are head and shoulders above the pack? Or 2 stand out flankers so far ahead? Props? Hookers? FB?

[Raggs]

Sinckler vs Furlong is interesting but I'd go for Sinckler over the last season.

[Scrumhead]

Some positions are easier than others. For example, the props are fairly easy, but centre is really, really tough.

There are lots of players who you could make a case for, but no-one who you would say is an absolute shoo-in.

FWIW, I’d go for (ability not necessarily form):

1. M. Vunipola (Eng)
2. Coles (NZ)
3. Furlong (Ire)
4. Retallick (NZ)
5. Whitelock (NZ)
6. Matera (Arg)
7. A. Savea (NZ)
8. B. Vunipola (Eng)
9. A. Smith (NZ)
10. B. Barrett (NZ)
11. May (Eng)
12. Kerevi (Aus)
13. Radradra (Fiji)
14. Kolbe (SA)
15. L. Williams (Wal)

[Puja]

Sinckler vs Furlong is interesting but I'd go for Sinckler over the last season.

That's kind of where I went with my XV. Previous to this year, I'd've said Furlong, but Sinckler has a) grown up and b) really grown into the international game.

Coles vs George is another awfully close one.

15. L. Williams (Wal)

I knew I'd missed someone obvious!

ETA. You know, after years of complaining that we don't have any world class players, we're actually pretty well represented in a World XV. Going by the old bromide that a RWC winning quality side should have 5 players who are best in the world in their positions, 5 who are in the top 5 and 5 others who are quality support, you could make a solid argument that we have:

World XV: Mako, George, Sinckler, BillyV, May
Top 5: Itoje, Kruis, Tuilagi
Support: Wilson, Curry, Farrell, Watson, Daly
Also Present: Youngs

So we're not far off, even if you want to shift a couple from the top list to the second one. And I think the top of world rugby is so tight nowadays that I don't know there's any side that would fit the 5:5:5 rule.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Well the other thing is that a ‘World XV’ doesn’t need to be balanced like a real team.

I went for Furlong as I think he’s a better foil for Mako and for Whitelock over other players who are arguably better on account of his partnership with Retallick, but I don’t imagine that many people are looking at it that way.

There really aren’t too many players I’d swap for ours. We’ve developed a well balanced team (by luck or by design) and the only major weaknesses are at 9 and 15. If Aaron Smith and Liam Williams were English, I genuinely think we’d have an amazing side.

[Puja]

Well the other thing is that a ‘World XV’ doesn’t need to be balanced like a real team.

I went for Furlong as I think he’s a better foil for Mako and for Whitelock over other players who are arguably better on account of his partnership with Retallick, but I don’t imagine that many people are looking at it that way.

There really aren’t too many players I’d swap for ours. We’ve developed a well balanced team (by luck or by design) and the only major weaknesses are at 9 and 15. If Aaron Smith and Liam Williams were English, I genuinely think we’d have an amazing side.

I would accept Perenara. Or Weber. Or Kerr-Barlow.

Puja

[Raggs]

Well the other thing is that a ‘World XV’ doesn’t need to be balanced like a real team.

I went for Furlong as I think he’s a better foil for Mako and for Whitelock over other players who are arguably better on account of his partnership with Retallick, but I don’t imagine that many people are looking at it that way.

There really aren’t too many players I’d swap for ours. We’ve developed a well balanced team (by luck or by design) and the only major weaknesses are at 9 and 15. If Aaron Smith and Liam Williams were English, I genuinely think we’d have an amazing side.

Where do you think furlong is stronger? You can always ask sink to narrow his game play, but whilst furlong has nice hands for a prop, sink has nice hands for a rugby player and a daft work rate.

[Scrumhead]

I totally agree with your assessment Sinckler’s hands and work rate, but Furlong is the stronger scrummager.

I picked my XV as if I were selecting a real side and I think Mako and Furlong is a better prop combination with Coles offering more handling etc. in the loose, making a more ‘complete’ front role.

I was very close to going with Healy, George and Sinckler for the same reasons.

[Beasties]

Also Present: Young


Puja

Whilst I'm liking the rest of your post, this line made Monday morning all the brighter for me.

[Beasties]

Just on the subject of Furlong v Sinck wtf's happened to Owen Franks? Gone from best in the world a couple of years ago to nowhere.

[Danno]

Well the other thing is that a ‘World XV’ doesn’t need to be balanced like a real team.

I went for Furlong as I think he’s a better foil for Mako and for Whitelock over other players who are arguably better on account of his partnership with Retallick, but I don’t imagine that many people are looking at it that way.

There really aren’t too many players I’d swap for ours. We’ve developed a well balanced team (by luck or by design) and the only major weaknesses are at 9 and 15. If Aaron Smith and Liam Williams were English, I genuinely think we’d have an amazing side.

I would accept Perenara. Or Weber. Or Kerr-Barlow.

Puja

I'd also accept Ken Barlow

[Stom]

I totally agree with your assessment Sinckler’s hands and work rate, but Furlong is the stronger scrummager.

I picked my XV as if I were selecting a real side and I think Mako and Furlong is a better prop combination with Coles offering more handling etc. in the loose, making a more ‘complete’ front role.

I was very close to going with Healy, George and Sinckler for the same reasons.

Why would you want Healy over Mako? He's not really a better scrummager anymore... Mako is just better in every way.

I do think Furlong and Sinckler is very close.