Elsewhere in Group C

[Scrumhead]

France vs. Argentina is proving to be an entertaining game.

What’s a good result for us? A draw would be great but must be fairly unlikely.

I guess a non-bonus point win would be best?

[Shiny]

A good result would a couple of 3 game suspensions for the big scrap after the final whistle. I suspect France will revert to type and play like Old Camanberts third 15’s for the next match.

[twitchy]

Both teams looked good.

[Renniks]

That's a pretty okay result, both France and Argentina looked good in parts but bang average in others

Would have preferred for no losing BP but it should be alright based on that

[Raggs]

Thought they both looked good but neither of them had me thinking that we're going to lose to them. Our defence looks better than both.

[Scrumhead]

I thought there were some good individual performances on both sides but as team efforts, I thought both only had flashes of being cohesive.

I’m hopeful that we can build momentum with some big wins against Tonga and USA and then put in a strong performance to beat Argentina. They’ll really need to win to stay in it, so we’ll need to be sharp.

[Stom]

I thought there were some good individual performances on both sides but as team efforts, I thought both only had flashes of being cohesive.

I’m hopeful that we can build momentum with some big wins against Tonga and USA and then put in a strong performance to beat Argentina. They’ll really need to win to stay in it, so we’ll need to be sharp.

I thought France looked better as a team than the Argies...which is odd.

But only in attack.

That centre combination, with those 3 backrows moving through them, is quite a potent weapon, and Penaud is very good.

But neither team was particularly good.

[16th man]

First game obviously, but ridiculously high numbers of errors.

Agree that its in our hands against both. If we can put 90% of our best game on the pitch, I don't think there's much either team can do about it.

I'd take Penaud in an England shirt though.

[Adam_P]

Somewhat playing devils advocate - do England want to top pool C? If we do, then we have either Aus or Wales in the quarters, could go either way. Then if we win that, will almost definitely come up against NZ in the semis. However, if we come runner up, we'll still face one of Aus or Wales first, then our semi will likely be Ireland or SA. I know which semi I'd rather us play in, but dont think deliberately losing to France or Argentina is really an option

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Somewhat playing devils advocate - do England want to top pool C? If we do, then we have either Aus or Wales in the quarters, could go either way. Then if we win that, will almost definitely come up against NZ in the semis. However, if we come runner up, we'll still face one of Aus or Wales first, then our semi will likely be Ireland or SA. I know which semi I'd rather us play in, but dont think deliberately losing to France or Argentina is really an option

There's no way of knowing who the stronger opponent would be in a months time. But in any event I think that SA often match up well with you because they are every bit as muscular and at their best a bit quicker and slicker.

[Stom]

Somewhat playing devils advocate - do England want to top pool C? If we do, then we have either Aus or Wales in the quarters, could go either way. Then if we win that, will almost definitely come up against NZ in the semis. However, if we come runner up, we'll still face one of Aus or Wales first, then our semi will likely be Ireland or SA. I know which semi I'd rather us play in, but dont think deliberately losing to France or Argentina is really an option

There's no way of knowing who the stronger opponent would be in a months time. But in any event I think that SA often match up well with you because they are every bit as muscular and at their best a bit quicker and slicker.

Even that's hard to judge as their recent renaissance has been very recent. If we were playing SA of 12 months ago, I'd have us as firm favourites. Now...

[Puja]

Somewhat playing devils advocate - do England want to top pool C? If we do, then we have either Aus or Wales in the quarters, could go either way. Then if we win that, will almost definitely come up against NZ in the semis. However, if we come runner up, we'll still face one of Aus or Wales first, then our semi will likely be Ireland or SA. I know which semi I'd rather us play in, but dont think deliberately losing to France or Argentina is really an option

If we're giving up on beating NZ, then we may as well lose to them in the semi as the final. Going one game further won't make any difference to us. No particular value in being one side of the draw or the other.

I do think we've got the game to trouble NZ; it's just a question of if we actually bring it out or not.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Entertaining game but both defences were very passive. Meandering forward with little intent. Hardly anyone getting off the line with purpose.

[Scrumhead]

Argentina vs. Tonga is some interesting perspective on our performance last weekend. I think there was an element of them taking their foot off the gas after securing the BP, but Tonga troubled them a lot more than they did against us. Also, while they got the BP, 16pts is a pretty low margin of victory if points do come down to deciding who qualifies for the quarters.

[Which Tyler]

Argentina vs. Tonga is some interesting perspective on our performance last weekend. I think there was an element of them taking their foot off the gas after securing the BP, but Tonga troubled them a lot more than they did against us. Also, while they got the BP, 16pts is a pretty low margin of victory if points do come down to deciding who qualifies for the quarters.

It's also worth remember that Tonga were pretty damned sloppy in that first half.
Argentina's game-plan could have been customer made to play against Tonga (blast through the middle, 1-out passes etc), whilst we used the game-plan were likely to agains tier 1 teams, which is almost custom made for the Tongans to exploit (kick the ball to their back 3).
I don't think our game-plan will actually trouble the better tier 1 teams, however

[Scrumhead]

Yeah, fair point.

With a couple of exceptions, that was pretty much Argentina’s first XV though and they didn’t blow the Tongans away. Arguably, Tonga were unlucky not to have more - possibly even a losing BP.

[Timbo]

I think our game plan against tonga was perfect actually. They get their energy from big hits and are most dangerous from turnovers. Kick the ball to them, and besides some individual brilliance they have little structure or creativity.

If we had handled the ball when we got our chances even moderately well we’d have won by 50.

[WaspInWales]

I think our game plan against tonga was perfect actually. They get their energy from big hits and are most dangerous from turnovers. Kick the ball to them, and besides some individual brilliance they have little structure or creativity.

If we had handled the ball when we got our chances even moderately well we’d have won by 50.

Yep!

[Scrumhead]

France surely odds on for a BP win over USA.

I think I may regret not picking Raka in my fantasy team.

[Lizard]

France surely odds on for a BP win over USA.

I think I may regret not picking Raka in my fantasy team.

12-6 at HT. BP is on for both sides.

[Epaminondas Pules]

France surely odds on for a BP win over USA.

I think I may regret not picking Raka in my fantasy team.

12-6 at HT. BP is on for both sides.

USA doing well. They look a bit of a mess in defence, though are scrambling really well. Really contesting the breakdown and making a mess of it well.

If France get their heads screwed on they’ll pull away, but they’ve stopped doing what was working well and really manipulating the US defence. Almost typically French.

[Raggs]

France trying lots of chip kicks, wonder if that's in preparation for us.

[Scrumhead]

France surely odds on for a BP win over USA.

I think I may regret not picking Raka in my fantasy team.

12-6 at HT. BP is on for both sides.

USA doing well. They look a bit of a mess in defence, though are scrambling really well. Really contesting the breakdown and making a mess of it well.

If France get their heads screwed on they’ll pull away, but they’ve stopped doing what was working well and really manipulating the US defence. Almost typically French.

Yep. USA really making a game of it so far.

[Lizard]

Fair play, this is a hugely entertaining match.

[Mikey Brown]

TMO going to look at Raka randomly sticking his hand in the USA player's face then? I didn't see it properly but he didn't seem happy.