Eng v. Tonga - Match thread

[Digby]

and JJ didn't exactly look rapid either.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I thought JJ looked fine pace wise. Slowed to allow the support to get there for the try. Should’ve found Manu from the previous break if I’m being hyper critical.

[Galfon]

The only times Genge wasn't having his head shoved up his own arse hole, or at least between his ankles, was when he illegally got under the tight heads armpit and illegally drove across.

Good old fashioned front row speak.

Knowing little about f/r intricacies, he looks a tadge small for the sort of opponent he will meet in the later stages.Still learning at this level so all good experience for him - he can do a job v usa then presumably EJ will hope Mako is fit.Apart from that, more than useful as a finisher in games that have opened up.

[Raggs]

He looked all out of position on the set, if he's not strong there he's never going to do well when the pressure really comes on.

[fivepointer]

Seemed to me we were going through the motions at times. It was plain Tonga didnt have the firepower to hurt us, so we coasted along and as a result we lacked drive and desire. It was a shoddy all round effort. But it was a win. At this stage thats the key thing.
Thought Curry our best forward, Manu and Watson played well behind.
Slade's obvious rustiness is a concern.
Genge isnt a scrum technician like Marler and does get himself into some poor positions trying to over attack.

[Puja]

I'm with Raggs - Genge's problem wasn't trying to over-attack, but allowing the Tongan 18 to set the distance and control how they engaged. He kept falling into the same trap, every time and expecting that, this time, his strength would let him break out of it. It was a classic example of a young, talented, powerful prop being embarrassed by a horrible old bastard who's been around the block.

Hopefully Genge will be walked through his mistakes by Hatley over the next few days and come out stronger for it. Let's just all thank the gods for Marler's volte-face, shall we?

Puja

[twitchy]

Let's just all thank the gods for Marler's volte-face, shall we?

Amen to that. I really like marler 2.0 just a good player with none of the nonsense. Let's hope mako's recovery is going well.

[richy678]

Been a while since we've all looked at scrummaging, it's all about running and handling at prop these days.

[Puja]

Been a while since we've all looked at scrummaging, it's all about running and handling at prop these days.

The thing is that he is actually a very strong scrummager, just one who's been incredibly stupid on several occasions. I think his issues today were an extension of his running style where he thinks he can beat anyone with a hand off and a step - he needs to learn that talent alone won't get him out of every problem and, just because a gauntlet has been laid down, doesn't mean he has to charge into it.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Presumably, our coaches studied video of the Tongan props and talked Genge through the dos/don'ts etc. After all, it's a professional set-up and we are bound to be fully prepared . . .

[Mikey Brown]

I’m not sure if Slade was rusty so much as (as someone else said) not fully fit and trying too hard to make up for missed time, especially with Joseph there ready to take his spot.

The chip was odd, though I think we would have regained it but for that awkward stumble, and I think the Day non-try was Daly overrunning. He didn’t look stable on that leg though.

Everyone looked a bit panicky and he added to that.

Hard to know what to take from this game. Other than that having Watson counter attacking down the middle is great to see.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

This has been a surprisingly dull game!

Pretty much what you'd want first up. Job done. Next.

Performance doesn't matter if you win all your games. As an indicator future performance you'd be worried.

[Digby]

This has been a surprisingly dull game!

Pretty much what you'd want first up. Job done. Next.

Performance doesn't matter if you win all your games. As an indicator future performance you'd be worried.

I can't imagine any of the winners are happy after this opening series of games

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Pretty much what you'd want first up. Job done. Next.

Performance doesn't matter if you win all your games. As an indicator future performance you'd be worried.

I can't imagine any of the winners are happy after this opening series of games

I'd have thought they'll all be happy. If doubt any of them think they can't play better. Some will be looking for rather more improvement than others.

[Banquo]

Slade rusty and trying too hard.

Yes. This exactly. The little chip over the top in our own 22 was an odd choice. Joseph has looked good, I'd like to see him and Tuilagi start in the centres.

yes, with Ford at 10 please

[Mikey Brown]

Slade rusty and trying too hard.

Yes. This exactly. The little chip over the top in our own 22 was an odd choice. Joseph has looked good, I'd like to see him and Tuilagi start in the centres.

yes, with Ford at 10 please

Do you feel Tuilagi is generally as effective at 12? Or is any loss having him there made worth it to have Ford and Joseph either side? I certainly wouldn’t be unhappy to see it, but we know short of injury it won’t happen.

[Which Tyler]

yes, with Ford at 10 please

Given that he's the one who came off after an hour - I think he's the more likely starter than Farrell. I think that after this match, everyone fit will have had some time on the pitch, same goes for Underhill. So...

1. Genge
2. LCD
3. Cole
4. Launchbury
5. Kruis
6. Ludlum
7. Underhill
8. Wilson*

9. Heinz
10. Ford
11. McConnochie
12. Francis
13. Joseph
14. Cokanasiga
15. Daly/Watson

16. Singleton; 17. MVunipola*; 18.Sinckler; 19. Itoje; 20. BVunipola
21. Youngs; 22. Farrell; 23. Slade*

* If fit

Unless he's looking at McConnochie as a FB option - in which case start him there, with Nowell on the wing (if fit)

[Banquo]

Yes. This exactly. The little chip over the top in our own 22 was an odd choice. Joseph has looked good, I'd like to see him and Tuilagi start in the centres.

yes, with Ford at 10 please

Do you feel Tuilagi is generally as effective at 12? Or is any loss having him there made worth it to have Ford and Joseph either side? I certainly wouldn’t be unhappy to see it, but we know short of injury it won’t happen.

You can use him exactly as he was used yesterday with a bit of imagination, but as you say pointless whilst Faz can still walk. Ditto Watson at 15 and Daly on the wing- though Daly let me down badly with that butchered try (that said, don't know whether it was Slade being overly slow that caused the over-run).

[Mikey Brown]

I’ve been dying to see Daly back on the wing but I think that one was mostly his fault. There’s just no need to be that flat. For all Daly’s running skills have we ever seen a break like Watson’s from him down the middle? That was sensational and really deserved a try at the end of it.

I guess my question should have been whether EJ can get the same out of Tuilagi at 12 as 13. It doesn’t feel like this is the same Tuilagi we saw at 12 in the 6 nations, but there could be a ton of reasons for that.

I don’t like Farrell at 12, but I’m kind of resigned to it at the moment. I just want to make sure Ford/Tuilagi are on the pitch and that appears to be the only way to do it.

[Banquo]

I’ve been dying to see Daly back on the wing but I think that one was mostly his fault. There’s just no need to be that flat. For all Daly’s running skills have we ever seen a break like Watson’s from him down the middle? That was sensational and really deserved a try at the end of it.

I guess my question should have been whether EJ can get the same out of Tuilagi at 12 as 13. It doesn’t feel like this is the same Tuilagi we saw at 12 in the 6 nations, but there could be a ton of reasons for that.

I don’t like Farrell at 12, but I’m kind of resigned to it at the moment. I just want to make sure Ford/Tuilagi are on the pitch and that appears to be the only way to do it.

Yep. Though Daly offers a very different threat to Watson

[Digby]

Is what Watson offers in terms of footwork, speed, aerial control and better defence enough to keep Cokanasiga out of the side? I'm sort of on the fence, partly I don't think it is, partly Watson might be our most talented back

[Stom]

Is what Watson offers in terms of footwork, speed, aerial control and better defence enough to keep Cokanasiga out of the side? I'm sort of on the fence, partly I don't think it is, partly Watson might be our most talented back

I'm very tempted to say our best back 3 might be Watson at 15, May and Coka...with Daly only on the bench.

I just feel it offers the most quality and variety. Though I understand wanting to have a wing who can kick...

[Renniks]

I think all the conversations that happen make it more baffling that we took McConnoghie over another prop, scrum-half, fly-half, centre, or a player who plays fullback week in week out

He might be an absolute fantastic player, but we have 5 fantastic wingers already… and I can't imagine anyone would pick him as our starting winger for the QFs, even if we had two injured wingers!

[Which Tyler]

I think all the conversations that happen make it more baffling that we took McConnoghie over another prop, scrum-half, fly-half, centre, or a player who plays fullback week in week out

He might be an absolute fantastic player, but we have 5 fantastic wingers already… and I can't imagine anyone would pick him as our starting winger for the QFs, even if we had two injured wingers!

Yup - I still think we only ever needed one of McConnochie, Francis and Nowell.

[Stom]

I think all the conversations that happen make it more baffling that we took McConnoghie over another prop, scrum-half, fly-half, centre, or a player who plays fullback week in week out

He might be an absolute fantastic player, but we have 5 fantastic wingers already… and I can't imagine anyone would pick him as our starting winger for the QFs, even if we had two injured wingers!

Yup - I still think we only ever needed one of McConnochie, Francis and Nowell.

I agree, which is why they all need to play against USA (except the injured) as their only job is to stop Watson, May, Daly, Tuilagi, and Coka from getting injured!