England vs Argentina - Revenge of the Crappy Away Kit?

[Epaminondas Pules]

A world where your opposite number wears a green or blue jersey and is at least 6’ 5”

I don't get that argument. Yes, Curry is a step down from Lawes as a lineout option. However, he is perfectly viable and a lineout is about movement more than height. Borthwick's got history of getting clean lineout ball from a pack where no-one was over 6'2 against the Boks fielding Etzebeth and Matfield. We might be more under pressure in the lineout and less likely to compete on our ball, but the difference in open play between having Lawes at 6 and having an actual flanker at 6 is night and day.

tl;dr No matter how many times someone says it should work and it'll be worth it for the quality of lineout, it never has worked and it never has been worth it. This has been tried and failed a *lot*.

Puja

Not sure I think the open play argument is that clear cut when talking in the context of the 6 role - for instance Lawes imo is a much stronger hard yards ball carrier than Curry.

Is he? Their body positions are wholly different, and whilst Lawes has improved greatly he’s still naturally more upright due to height.

[richy678]

I don't get that argument. Yes, Curry is a step down from Lawes as a lineout option. However, he is perfectly viable and a lineout is about movement more than height. Borthwick's got history of getting clean lineout ball from a pack where no-one was over 6'2 against the Boks fielding Etzebeth and Matfield. We might be more under pressure in the lineout and less likely to compete on our ball, but the difference in open play between having Lawes at 6 and having an actual flanker at 6 is night and day.

tl;dr No matter how many times someone says it should work and it'll be worth it for the quality of lineout, it never has worked and it never has been worth it. This has been tried and failed a *lot*.

Puja

Not sure I think the open play argument is that clear cut when talking in the context of the 6 role - for instance Lawes imo is a much stronger hard yards ball carrier than Curry.

Is he? Their body positions are wholly different, and whilst Lawes has improved greatly he’s still naturally more upright due to height.

I really rate Lawes as a rugby player, hard man etc. His actual carrying used to be pot luck that he would get turned over, and/or stood up.
He is much better now.

[richy678]

Schalk Brits has been picked at No.8 for the Boks. He's 38 and hasn't played No.8 since 1859 or something.
We, of course, do all recognise his running ability in broken field, which must be the plan to launch him through some holes. Against Namibia though.

[Puja]

Schalk Brits has been picked at No.8 for the Boks. He's 38 and hasn't played No.8 since 1859 or something.
We, of course, do all recognise his running ability in broken field, which must be the plan to launch him through some holes. Against Namibia though.

I was looking for the South Africa vs Namibia teamsheet for the fantasy rugby the other day and it took me ages cause I thought I was finding results from 2015 back when Schalk Brits used to play. Then I realised it was for 2019 and South Africa had coincidentally found another player called Schalk Brits.

Took me a while to twig that he's in the SA squad despite having retired years ago. How is he still one of the best hookers/8s in South Africa?!

Puja

[paddy no 11]

Schalk Brits has been picked at No.8 for the Boks. He's 38 and hasn't played No.8 since 1859 or something.
We, of course, do all recognise his running ability in broken field, which must be the plan to launch him through some holes. Against Namibia though.

I was looking for the South Africa vs Namibia teamsheet for the fantasy rugby the other day and it took me ages cause I thought I was finding results from 2015 back when Schalk Brits used to play. Then I realised it was for 2019 and South Africa had coincidentally found another player called Schalk Brits.

Took me a while to twig that he's in the SA squad despite having retired years ago. How is he still one of the best hookers/8s in South Africa?!

Puja

I guess he was picked for 1 match much like yer comments on francis? And they lost one of the Louw fellas (ulster one) to injury just before tournament

[Mellsblue]

I suppose it settles the debate about who should be back up 8 to Billy. Jamie George obvs.

[Mikey Brown]

Wasn't sure where to put this, but it struck me when opening the BBC rugby page you see headlines stating that Farrell escaping injury is the biggest positive from the USA game and another that Ford still needs to prove himself in a big game. I don't know what to add to that, but there you go.

[Shiny]

I suppose it settles the debate about who should be back up 8 to Billy. Jamie George obvs.

For god sake do not let Uncle Eddie see this thread. He will have LCD/Singleton covering both hooker and number 8 from the bench before you can say "Ben Youngs low pass".

[Puja]

Schalk Brits has been picked at No.8 for the Boks. He's 38 and hasn't played No.8 since 1859 or something.
We, of course, do all recognise his running ability in broken field, which must be the plan to launch him through some holes. Against Namibia though.

I was looking for the South Africa vs Namibia teamsheet for the fantasy rugby the other day and it took me ages cause I thought I was finding results from 2015 back when Schalk Brits used to play. Then I realised it was for 2019 and South Africa had coincidentally found another player called Schalk Brits.

Took me a while to twig that he's in the SA squad despite having retired years ago. How is he still one of the best hookers/8s in South Africa?!

Puja

I guess he was picked for 1 match much like yer comments on francis? And they lost one of the Louw fellas (ulster one) to injury just before tournament

I get that it's good to pick everyone from the squad;I don't get how on earth he's still one of the best 31 players in SA!

Wasn't sure where to put this, but it struck me when opening the BBC rugby page you see headlines stating that Farrell escaping injury is the biggest positive from the USA game and another that Ford still needs to prove himself in a big game. I don't know what to add to that, but there you go.

Yeah, I saw that. Hurt my brain.

...until I see Ford seize control of a game that is going against England, rather than direct traffic in one that they will probably win anyway, it is difficult to justify [his] selection for the biggest matches.

We all know what he can do, but there are things that he hasn't done in tight encounters.

His last extended run at fly-half came to an end in the summer of 2018 after back-to-back defeats in South Africa and Six Nations losses to Scotland and France.

At the real top level, when his decision-making is under pressure because of a retreating pack or a big scoreboard deficit, can he make the right calls or come up with the clutch play?

I am yet to see that.

Matt obviously can't remember as far back as the Australia tour, notably the first test when he came off the bench to a big scoreboard deficit and seized control of a game that was going against England. Obviously had his eyes closed all the way through our winning streak when he was running the game from fly-half. Or, more recently, the Scotland game this year where he came on and made the right calls, before making the clutch play to tie a game that Farrell had done his best to lose.

Matt is yet to see that. That is because Matt is a crap pundit. Don't be like Matt.

Puja

[Beasties]

I suppose it settles the debate about who should be back up 8 to Billy. Jamie George obvs.

For god sake do not let Uncle Eddie see this thread. He will have LCD/Singleton covering both hooker and number 8 from the bench before you can say "Ben Youngs low pass".

C'mon Mells, Singleton is the clear choice. Back row experience at test lavel an all that.

[Mellsblue]

Yep. Dawson is talking balls but he ain’t the sharpest knife in the drawer.
We’ve obviously seen Ford play well without front foot ball for England plus he was arguably the best 10 in the Prem last season despite playing with loads of terrible ball and for second worst team in the league. Ford has looked bad on the back foot at times but which flyhalf hasn’t.
Is Farrell a great 10 with slow ball? I can’t say he is but then there ain’t that much of a back catalogue because he plays for England and Saracens. All I know is that in our three biggest matches in the last two seasons with Farrell at 10 - NZ, Ireland 2018 and Wales 2019 - we’ve lost and he’s been average at best.
Farrell’s a good 10 but he ain’t the messiah.

[Mellsblue]

I suppose it settles the debate about who should be back up 8 to Billy. Jamie George obvs.

For god sake do not let Uncle Eddie see this thread. He will have LCD/Singleton covering both hooker and number 8 from the bench before you can say "Ben Youngs low pass".

C'mon Mells, Singleton is the clear choice. Back row experience at test lavel an all that.

Apols. My mistake.

[twitchy]

Schalk Brits has been picked at No.8 for the Boks. He's 38 and hasn't played No.8 since 1859 or something.
We, of course, do all recognise his running ability in broken field, which must be the plan to launch him through some holes. Against Namibia though.

SA could probably play faf at 8 against namibia.

[Mr Mwenda]

Not seen the beeb, but the reprts i read were pretty effusive about Ford's play and form.

[richy678]

I suppose it settles the debate about who should be back up 8 to Billy. Jamie George obvs.

Georgie boy can run. Just maybe not in the same way as Schalk.

[richy678]

I was looking for the South Africa vs Namibia teamsheet for the fantasy rugby the other day and it took me ages cause I thought I was finding results from 2015 back when Schalk Brits used to play. Then I realised it was for 2019 and South Africa had coincidentally found another player called Schalk Brits.

Took me a while to twig that he's in the SA squad despite having retired years ago. How is he still one of the best hookers/8s in South Africa?!

Puja

I guess he was picked for 1 match much like yer comments on francis? And they lost one of the Louw fellas (ulster one) to injury just before tournament

I get that it's good to pick everyone from the squad;I don't get how on earth he's still one of the best 31 players in SA!

Wasn't sure where to put this, but it struck me when opening the BBC rugby page you see headlines stating that Farrell escaping injury is the biggest positive from the USA game and another that Ford still needs to prove himself in a big game. I don't know what to add to that, but there you go.

Yeah, I saw that. Hurt my brain.

...until I see Ford seize control of a game that is going against England, rather than direct traffic in one that they will probably win anyway, it is difficult to justify [his] selection for the biggest matches.

We all know what he can do, but there are things that he hasn't done in tight encounters.

His last extended run at fly-half came to an end in the summer of 2018 after back-to-back defeats in South Africa and Six Nations losses to Scotland and France.

At the real top level, when his decision-making is under pressure because of a retreating pack or a big scoreboard deficit, can he make the right calls or come up with the clutch play?

I am yet to see that.

Matt obviously can't remember as far back as the Australia tour, notably the first test when he came off the bench to a big scoreboard deficit and seized control of a game that was going against England. Obviously had his eyes closed all the way through our winning streak when he was running the game from fly-half. Or, more recently, the Scotland game this year where he came on and made the right calls, before making the clutch play to tie a game that Farrell had done his best to lose.

Matt is yet to see that. That is because Matt is a crap pundit. Don't be like Matt.

Puja

Matt wears double denim on Question Of Sport.
Matt is trying to build a career as a media whore.
Matt was a very good rugby player who won a world cup.
I have mates who have met him who choose to only refer to him as "Twat Dawson".

[Peej]

Brits is in the squad as a good bloke basically. Someone who will always have s smile and a joke.

He played Super Rugby this season and captained SA in their Championship win over Argentina last month

[Galfon]

Arg looked strong early on v Ton but missed a shed load of tackles and were level on turnovers.As long as Eng don't get caught in an arm-wrestle, they should be confident about next week.

[Beasties]

Fek me, that Jap v Ire match was fun to watch. Japan great value for that.

[Scrumhead]

100%. Japan looking odds on to win their group with a likely QF against SA!

[Mikey Brown]

That was incredible. Impossible not to support Japan even though it puts Scotland in an even more perilous position.

[Mellsblue]

Best game of the tournament - both performance and result - and there were some crackers last weekend.

[Scrumhead]

Agreed. I’m hoping Wales vs. Australia will be another breakfast time treat tomorrow.

[twitchy]

Looking at the state of the irish, does any one what the weather will be like for this game next week?

[p/d]

Best game of the tournament - both performance and result - and there were some crackers last weekend.

Pure joy! Watching a nine recycle the ball so quickly put such pace on the game. No stuttering, no waiting to organise his guard and prepared to put his hands in where our 9 won’t