How important is it really for England to have a carrier at 6?

[Rich]

all of Rodber, Teague and Dallaglio were regular 6's prior to playing 8 later in careers.

I don't remember Teague playing blindside for Gloucester nor Dallaglio playing blindside for Wasps but I dare say it happened.

No8 is a pivotal position in the team - probably most No8's played flanker at some early point in their career.

Billy V is another No8 who was a regular 6 once.

[Rich]

Billy has played blindside in recent years too.

Does Billy really have sufficient speed endurance and mobility about the park to be a test level 6 ?

I'm also interested in what Nathan Hughes can additionally offer at no.8 that an on form Billy doesn't? Is Hughes a lineout option perhaps?

Well if Billy is fit enough to play No8, he's fit enough to play blindside. I'm curious as to why you think the No8 position requires less speed and mobility ?

Hughes has played lock, blindside and No8 in his career so far and also 7's. He's supremely athletic and would offer a real lineout option at the tail. He's not short on ball handling skills either.

Billy V is too head down for a test No8...he makes the hard yards no question but Hughes is more mobile and the better footballer.

[Rich]

He may not. But so far in this thread nobody has suggested Hughes at 6 with Billy remaining at 8 , where he's doing a great job. Obviously Hughes would need a few outings at 6 at club level to see if this is feasible since he has no experience playing 6, but he does seem more mobile than Billy. That said, Billy has really come on this season in his ability to get about the pitch and is now capable of a sustained, physically-taxing 80 minutes. The pair of them, combined with Itoje/Kruis and a livewire 7 (who?) could form the basis of a really physically- intimidating pack.

I'm pretty sure Hughes has experience of blindside (as well as lock) in the 15 man game.

Any decent No8 should be able to play blindside anyway and I would think that most club No8's will have played flanker at some point.

Hughes is way more mobile and athletic than Billy V

A pack back 5 of:

Itoje - Kruis
Underhill - Hughes - Billy V


Now that would take some stopping.

[Banquo]

all of Rodber, Teague and Dallaglio were regular 6's prior to playing 8 later in careers.

I don't remember Teague playing blindside for Gloucester nor Dallaglio playing blindside for Wasps but I dare say it happened.

No8 is a pivotal position in the team - probably most No8's played flanker at some early point in their career.

Billy V is another No8 who was a regular 6 once.

Your memory is very faulty. Dallaglio played 6 for many years both Wasps and England as his primary position.

[Tom Moore]

He may not. But so far in this thread nobody has suggested Hughes at 6 with Billy remaining at 8 , where he's doing a great job. Obviously Hughes would need a few outings at 6 at club level to see if this is feasible since he has no experience playing 6, but he does seem more mobile than Billy. That said, Billy has really come on this season in his ability to get about the pitch and is now capable of a sustained, physically-taxing 80 minutes. The pair of them, combined with Itoje/Kruis and a livewire 7 (who?) could form the basis of a really physically- intimidating pack.

I'm pretty sure Hughes has experience of blindside (as well as lock) in the 15 man game.

Any decent No8 should be able to play blindside anyway and I would think that most club No8's will have played flanker at some point.

Hughes is way more mobile and athletic than Billy V

A pack back 5 of:

Itoje - Kruis
Underhill - Hughes - Billy V


Now that would take some stopping.

This.

[Timbo]

I wouldn't go telling the other 6 nations teams that Billy is "too head down to be a test no. 8", on account of him, y'know, battering them all over various pitches a couple of months ago.

[padprop]

I really find this player being "too ____ to play _____" a bit of a non-entity. If they are effective at international level regardless of there skillset, then it really doesnt matter.

[padprop]

This is coming from a wasps fan, but Hughes has seemed to be on a downward spiral in the last half of the year, I would say he's as firmly in as most people are saying. I'd say Harrison has looked more promising this season.

[Oakboy]

I think Hughes has gone off the boil since Johnson stopped playing 6 and Haskell moved over from 7. Smith is wonderful at many aspects of the game but the Wasps' back-row is not the go-forward UNIT that it was before he arrived. I'm not for a moment suggesting that Smith's arrival did not represent a net gain at the breakdown but I'd argue that it disrupted the way that they used to play. It will be interesting to see if Hughes surges back with Smith's departure - coincidence or not.

I'm a big fan of Hughes and he walks into the England side at 8, IMO, IF he is playing in top form. Currently, he is not playing well enough.

[Beasties]

Hughes really has tapered off badly at the business end of the season. He was going great guns early and mid season, hence his nomination for player of the year. At the moment he's not demanding selection over Billy at all. It's probably is a good thing that no one will be talking about "if only Hughes was available for the Aus tour". The fact that Wasps and Hughes have tailed off recently might point to their mutually beneficial relationship. Chicken and egg?

[Beasties]

I think Hughes has gone off the boil since Johnson stopped playing 6 and Haskell moved over from 7. Smith is wonderful at many aspects of the game but the Wasps' back-row is not the go-forward UNIT that it was before he arrived. I'm not for a moment suggesting that Smith's arrival did not represent a net gain at the breakdown but I'd argue that it disrupted the way that they used to play. It will be interesting to see if Hughes surges back with Smith's departure - coincidence or not.

I'm a big fan of Hughes and he walks into the England side at 8, IMO, IF he is playing in top form. Currently, he is not playing well enough.

The loss of Myall and Gaskell as lineout operators has been a big factor in Johnson not getting as much gametime as Wasps would've liked sadly.

[Timbo]

Hughes was fantastic right through until about late March/early April. Just think it's a case of his form tailing off. Maybe he's carrying a knock, maybe he's a bit knackered...it happens. He certainly comes right into the England picture next season.

[fivepointer]

Think Wasps as a team have faded a touch over the last few weeks. Certainly Hughes hasnt made the impression he did early season but its very hard to play at a consistently high level over 9 months. Think its also fair to say that teams have defended against him a lot better. Yesterday he was shut down every time in possession for instance.

[twitchy]

Are wasps not using him slightly differently now?

[Banquo]

I really find this player being "too ____ to play _____" a bit of a non-entity. If they are effective at international level regardless of there skillset, then it really doesnt matter.

agreed-ish