England vs New Zealand - World Ranked #2 vs World Ranked #1

[Beasties]

Personally I thought AWJ had a very poor day at the office but Kruis ended up carrying the can cos Gatland was coach.

He took a forearm to the head at the bottom of a ruck from Retallick within the first 15 minutes iirc.

Ah ok I didn't know that.

[p/d]

I thought Kruis couldn't catch a cold in that game, let alone catch a ball, or make an effective tackle?

He was all over the pitch but not effective at all… I could be absolutely wrong though! I usually am

He was trampled on by a herd of Dexter’s on his way to the stadium

[Oakboy]

I thought Kruis couldn't catch a cold in that game, let alone catch a ball, or make an effective tackle?

He was all over the pitch but not effective at all… I could be absolutely wrong though! I usually am

He was trampled on by a herd of Dexter’s on his way to the stadium

Ah, will the poor lad be alright on Saturday, then - same opponents!

[richy678]

I think Lawes played more than well enough to keep his place - thats old fashioned these days, but I think it's true.
I also think hes better equipped to keep up with the pace of the game NZ will bring.
Pretty sure Jones will stick with the kamakazi twins as he likes a sound bite.

I'm going to put my head above the parapet and say I don't rate AWJ anyway. King of the unseen work. I think he is slow and undynamic compared to the English Locks of the past 7 or 8 years. He may be "a warrior" and doesn't give up, and people like to be beside him in the trenches, but he is no way as athletic as a top draw international lock should be.

[Raggs]

If you class athletic as moving quickly, then no, but the guy has an absolutely enormous engine, ludicrous. Add to that his leadership, and I'd happily have him.

[MrK]

If you class athletic as moving quickly, then no, but the guy has an absolutely enormous engine, ludicrous. Add to that his leadership, and I'd happily have him.

I wouldnt rate him in the top 6 locks in the world, but Id still probably pick him.

Saying that, post World Cup, Id like to see us (Wales) working with Ball, Beard, Hill and Seb Davies and look at Jac Price and Teddy Williams from the U20s. Thats the future for us.

[Digby]

If you class athletic as moving quickly, then no, but the guy has an absolutely enormous engine, ludicrous. Add to that his leadership, and I'd happily have him.

And when you think how hard he's hitting he's a pretty special talent. Added to which he is the Welsh line out and verging on only carrying option atop everything else

[Lizard]

From a Kiwi perspective, I would be more concerned about Lawes and Itoje than Kruis. I don't think any of them can play the type of impact game Scott Barrett brings off the bench, so you start your best two and hope that you're not chasing the game when the numbers say it's time to replace one of them.

[Digby]

From a Kiwi perspective, I would be more concerned about Lawes and Itoje than Kruis. I don't think any of them can play the type of impact game Scott Barrett brings off the bench, so you start your best two and hope that you're not chasing the game when the numbers say it's time to replace one of them.

None of then can stand with your intensity. We're merely lucky you're deigning to play us rather than insisting on another bye weekend

[Lizard]

From a Kiwi perspective, I would be more concerned about Lawes and Itoje than Kruis. I don't think any of them can play the type of impact game Scott Barrett brings off the bench, so you start your best two and hope that you're not chasing the game when the numbers say it's time to replace one of them.

None of then can stand with your intensity. We're merely lucky you're deigning to play us rather than insisting on another bye weekend

Funny, except that if this match is cancelled then England goes through by having more match points (19 v 18) from Pool Play.

[Banquo]

From a Kiwi perspective, I would be more concerned about Lawes and Itoje than Kruis. I don't think any of them can play the type of impact game Scott Barrett brings off the bench, so you start your best two and hope that you're not chasing the game when the numbers say it's time to replace one of them.

Yep we all know the impact Barrett can bring

[Hooky]

I think Lawes played more than well enough to keep his place - thats old fashioned these days, but I think it's true.
I also think hes better equipped to keep up with the pace of the game NZ will bring.
Pretty sure Jones will stick with the kamakazi twins as he likes a sound bite.

I'm going to put my head above the parapet and say I don't rate AWJ anyway. King of the unseen work. I think he is slow and undynamic compared to the English Locks of the past 7 or 8 years. He may be "a warrior" and doesn't give up, and people like to be beside him in the trenches, but he is no way as athletic as a top draw international lock should be.

Insane. Open your eyes. He's a tight lock and world class at what he does. He can carry and does to good effect but that's not his primary role. He made 23 tackles against australia, which is ridiculous for one of the tight 5.

[twitchy]

AWJ is/was world class. Let's not derail the thread though.

[Mikey Brown]

His hair is shit too.

[Stom]

His hair is shit too.

He’s definitely holding onto past glories in that regard...

[twitchy]

His hair is shit too.

Fair criticism. He sort of looks like a 12th century monk or some thing.

[Mikey Brown]

The only team that AWJ should ever be captain of;

1. Kitschoff
2. Cowan-Dickie
3. Francis
4. AWJ (c)
5. Snyman
6. Lawes
7. Savea
8. Navidi
9. Perenara
10. Leili'ifano
11. Stockdale
12. Taylor
13. Goodhue
14. Nowell
15. Medard

[Lizard]

I watched the Aus v Eng game with an Aussie mate, and a friend of his Mrs. The friend was nice but not a close follower of the sport. When she saw Leili’ifano in close up she started going on about his shit hair, old man looks etc. we let her go for a couple of minutes before my Aussie mate says, dead pan, “yeah, he looks pretty fucked, but not bad for a leukaemia survivor who’s made his way back up to test rugby “. Look on her face was priceless.

[p/d]

His hair is shit too.

Fair criticism. He sort of looks like a 12th century monk or some thing.

not since Dusty Hare has the combover looked so good

[Mikey Brown]

I watched the Aus v Eng game with an Aussie mate, and a friend of his Mrs. The friend was nice but not a close follower of the sport. When she saw Leili’ifano in close up she started going on about his shit hair, old man looks etc. we let her go for a couple of minutes before my Aussie mate says, dead pan, “yeah, he looks pretty fucked, but not bad for a leukaemia survivor who’s made his way back up to test rugby “. Look on her face was priceless.

Yeah I didn't feel great about that choice.

It's a shame Andy Goode has retired. Which is not a thing I ever thought I'd say.

[Lizard]

Two words: Isaac. Boss.

[Banquo]

Will Greenwood as peroxide blonde

[Digby]

This sums it up

meh, fast runners with space to attack either side often beat an isolated defender. I was perhaps thinking Daly should be doing more not to see play directed back inside, but it was a big step by Beale

I know what you mean Diggers. I think his poor performance has been exaggerated a little... he had dangerous runners running full tilt into space and he had a hell of a job on his hands to deal with it.

I was a pretty average full back (at a much lower level of course too . One of the things that made me average was in similar situations, I wasn't getting to these kind of threats literally as fast as possible and throwing myself at the runner, Mike Brown style, I was unsure of which call to make for a moment, whether go left or right, run with the defender and cover tackle or go in full tilt head first so to speak. FBs like Brown and Lewsey just smashed it, they ran at the attacker who'd made the break and just somehow stopped it. Daly isn't that, he's not a natural defender in this sense.

It pains me because I think Daly's my favourite England player, and he's arguably the most talented. But he's just not a good defensive full back. We CAN get away with it because he's so good going forward and he's a great kicker, steps into the line beautifully etc. But for the 7 great games he has where he looks wonderful, he'll have 3 poor games I suspect.

Going on the premise that May is a nailed on starter, is Daly a better winger than Watson, Coka and Nowell? If he is, then he should play there and we just have to play Watson at FB.

If I was manager, my first selection would be May and Daly on the wings with Watson at FB and Cokanasiga as 3rd choice winger.

I think we need to consider why people want fullbacks throwing themselves into the spokes of a tackle as with Mike Brown, or indeed a Leigh Halfpenny, if we also going to claim we care about concussion. If you throw yourself into a tackle at pace, from distance, with a runner liable to step your chances for getting a head or the wrong side or collecting a hip would be a concern

You might get away with hurling oneself into the path of a carrier, but it's a gamble from distance at pace. By distance I mean your feet aren't planted next to the carrier ready to drive through in controlled fashion, you're having to launch from whatever angle it might be

[Puja]

Will Greenwood as peroxide blonde

If we're going to be picking out the Slim Shadies, then we'd have to include pretty much the entire England backline of 2000.

I think we need to consider why people want fullbacks throwing themselves into the spokes of a tackle as with Mike Brown, or indeed a Leigh Halfpenny, if we also going to claim we care about concussion. If you throw yourself into a tackle at pace, from distance, with a runner liable to step your chances for getting a head or the wrong side or collecting a hip would be a concern

You might get away with hurling oneself into the path of a carrier, but it's a gamble from distance at pace. By distance I mean your feet aren't planted next to the carrier ready to drive through in controlled fashion, you're having to launch from whatever angle it might be

I don't know why Brown's being cited as throwing himself into the spokes of a tackle - he's normally very good at getting himself in good position and making a proper tackle. Halfpenny, I'll give you - he's an utter liability.

Puja

[Digby]

Brown gets his head on the wrong side often enough