Players for Scotland's future

[hugh_woatmeigh]

I think most are in agreement that the ideal backrow would be Ritchie, Watson & Bradbury.

Bradbury has about 10kg on Ritchie I'd say. It's not just the weight though - it's about how it's carried. Fagerson is about 2-3 inches shorter but far better at carrying than Ritchie.

[Big D]

I think most are in agreement that the ideal backrow would be Ritchie, Watson & Bradbury.

Bradbury has about 10kg on Ritchie I'd say. It's not just the weight though - it's about how it's carried. Fagerson is about 2-3 inches shorter but far better at carrying than Ritchie.

I was just emphasising that Ritchie isn't too small to be a "tackling 6" who is effective at the breakdown.

[General Zod]

I think Skinner comes into the back row conversation. I think he sees himself ideally as an 8, although I’m aware he’s mostly lock at the moment.

[Mikey Brown]

Really? Never heard of him playing 8 at all and still find the idea he’s anything but an emergency backrow a bit odd. He’s a big powerful unit and feel we could do with one of those in the second row anyway.

I don’t see him adding enough in athleticism or breakdown work in the backrow. Admittedly haven’t seen that much of him though. If we want a rangy lock-esque 6 option I could see Carmichael being a better fit.

Not certain everyone is in agreement about Bradbury being at 8 are they? I don’t feel his handling/link work in nearly as good as Fagerson’s, though Ritchie balances that out a bit.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Really? Never heard of him playing 8 at all and still find the idea he’s anything but an emergency backrow a bit odd. He’s a big powerful unit and feel we could do with one of those in the second row anyway.

I don’t see him adding enough in athleticism or breakdown work in the backrow. Admittedly haven’t seen that much of him though. If we want a rangy lock-esque 6 option I could see Carmichael being a better fit.

Not certain everyone is in agreement about Bradbury being at 8 are they? I don’t feel his handling/link work in nearly as good as Fagerson’s, though Ritchie balances that out a bit.

If you don't play Bradbury at 8 you end up with the same problem - limited hard yards & no big bruiser in the back row.

[Cameo]

I think Ritchie and Watson is a perfect 6/7 combo. They are both powerful enough to do plenty of carrying and Ritchie has some heft. Chances are they won't be fit together all the time anyway.

I see Fagerson as having more potential than Bradbury but Bradbury has earnt a chance and Fagerson is the perfect back row sub in my eyes.

[switchskier]

None of our backrowers have all the skills so the blend is going to be important rather than picking the three out and out best players. Watching England yesterday I very much want us to go younger and faster and worry less about power from a standing start (because we don't have it) but that relies on having a scrum half with good box kicking when it all bogs down. Time to start looking for some young tearaways and promoting them quickly.

[Mikey Brown]

Really? Never heard of him playing 8 at all and still find the idea he’s anything but an emergency backrow a bit odd. He’s a big powerful unit and feel we could do with one of those in the second row anyway.

I don’t see him adding enough in athleticism or breakdown work in the backrow. Admittedly haven’t seen that much of him though. If we want a rangy lock-esque 6 option I could see Carmichael being a better fit.

Not certain everyone is in agreement about Bradbury being at 8 are they? I don’t feel his handling/link work in nearly as good as Fagerson’s, though Ritchie balances that out a bit.

If you don't play Bradbury at 8 you end up with the same problem - limited hard yards & no big bruiser in the back row.

I was viewing it more as a trade-off between getting Ritchie’s skills at 6 or Fagerson/Thomson at 8, with Bradbury probably in the other slot either way.

I agree we at least need somebody who can truck up the endless shit ball we produce. Sorry Maggie, looks like that’s you for a little while.

I just think Fagerson would thrive in his carrying role if he already had someone taking that first load of hot garbage from Laidlaw. Though that seemed to be the plan with Thomson and he barely made any meaningful second wave carries.

[Chunks Baws]

I think Skinner comes into the back row conversation. I think he sees himself ideally as an 8, although I’m aware he’s mostly lock at the moment.

He said himself he's a lock and that's his preferred position.

[Mikey Brown]

Looks like Christmas has come early for you lot. I've added James Lang to this pointless list of names I've created.

Loose-head
Dell (27), Reid (32), Bhatti (26), Allan (28), Sutherland (27), Marfo (28) ---> Kebble (27), Schoeman (25)

Hooker
McInally (29), Brown (30), Turner (27), Stewart (24), Cherry (28), Kerr (23) ---> Ashman (19)

Tight-head
Nel (33), Fagerson (23), Berghan (29), Rae (24), McCallum (24) ---> Nichol (23)

Lock
J Gray (25), Skinner (24), Cummings (22), Gilchrist (29), R Gray (30), Toolis (27), Swinson (32) ---> Hunter-Hill (22), Carmichael (24), Davidson (22)

Backrow
Barclay (32), Bradbury (24), Ritchie (23), Watson (27), Fagerson (21), Thomson (28), Wilson (30), Ashe (26), Strauss (32), Cowan (LOL) ---> Crosbie (22), Smith (23)

Scrum-half
Laidlaw (33), Horne (24), Price (26), Pyrgos (30), SHC (26) ---> Shiel (21), Dobie (18), Steele (26)

Fly-half
Russell (27), Hastings (23), Weir (28), Lang (24) ---> JVDW (25)

Centre
Johnson (26), Horne (29), Taylor (30), Scott (29), Jones (25), Harris (28), Hutchinson (23), Bennett (26), Dunbar (29), Grigg (27) ---> McDowall (21), Taylor (22), Dean (25), Johnstone (29)

Back Three
Hogg (27), Maitland (31), Seymour (31), Kinghorn (22), Graham (22), Hughes (26), Jones (31), Fife (29) ---> VDM (24), Farndale (25)

[Big D]

There are of course our age grade caps who appear lost to England but are still SQ - Vellacott, Dingwall and Redpath.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I don’t know where the line is for inclusion to be honest. Once I started adding people like Dougie Fife I really started questioning what the point was.

Anyone actually heard whether Laidlaw/Barclay plan to continue?

[hugh_woatmeigh]

Going to be hard to persuade Vellacott & Redpath to switch over when you compare recent form...

[Scrumhead]

There are of course our age grade caps who appear lost to England but are still SQ - Vellacott, Dingwall and Redpath.

England fan in peace ...

You’d have a decent chance of sweeping up those three IMO.

Vellacott has done his ACL so is out for a good chunk of time which will mean he loses real ground in what’s likely to be a bit of a race for the SH places in the England squad post RWC.

I really rate Dingwall, but he’s behind a lot of very good players at 13 and isn’t really a 12. He may decide switching back to Scotland where there is less competition is better than hoping for an England chance that might never come.

It’s hard to say with Redpath. His ACL injury last year disrupted what could/should have been a breakthrough season but he wasn’t great at the U20 World Cup and then got banned for biting! He did start for Sale last weekend though so maybe this season will give a better indication of where he’s at. The big advantage he has over Dingwall from an England POV is that we’re really light on 12s but have loads of promising 13s.

Aside from those three, Andrew Davidson might be another name to add to Mikey’s list. He was starting to look good in a weak Newcastle squad last season and has since moved to Glasgow IIRC?

Also Gary Graham hasn’t had a mention has he? One of the weaknesses of the Scottish pack in recent times have been carrying and aggression. Graham brings both and while he’s probably not good enough to start, he could add something from the bench.

Lastly, I’ve been really unimpressed by Blade Thomson. Much like Brad Shields for Wasps and England, he came with a strong reputation from Super Rugby nut hasn’t really lived up to it since arriving. Shields has looked a bit better recently, so maybe Thomson will follow suit?

[Big D]

There are of course our age grade caps who appear lost to England but are still SQ - Vellacott, Dingwall and Redpath.

England fan in peace ...

You’d have a decent chance of sweeping up those three IMO.

Vellacott has done his ACL so is out for a good chunk of time which will mean he loses real ground in what’s likely to be a bit of a race for the SH places in the England squad post RWC.

I really rate Dingwall, but he’s behind a lot of very good players at 13 and isn’t really a 12. He may decide switching back to Scotland where there is less competition is better than hoping for an England chance that might never come.

It’s hard to say with Redpath. His ACL injury last year disrupted what could/should have been a breakthrough season but he wasn’t great at the U20 World Cup and then got banned for biting! He did start for Sale last weekend though so maybe this season will give a better indication of where he’s at. The big advantage he has over Dingwall from an England POV is that we’re really light on 12s but have loads of promising 13s.

Aside from those three, Andrew Davidson might be another name to add to Mikey’s list. He was starting to look good in a weak Newcastle squad last season and has since moved to Glasgow IIRC?

Also Gary Graham hasn’t had a mention has he? One of the weaknesses of the Scottish pack in recent times have been carrying and aggression. Graham brings both and while he’s probably not good enough to start, he could add something from the bench.

Lastly, I’ve been really unimpressed by Blade Thomson. Much like Brad Shields for Wasps and England, he came with a strong reputation from Super Rugby nut hasn’t really lived up to it since arriving. Shields has looked a bit better recently, so maybe Thomson will follow suit?

What will be will be with those 3. I would be very tempted to try and get the centres involved ASAP if they were interested. Taylor and Harris aren't the answer and Jones has fallen off a cliff. If Hutchinson is playing 12 to Dingwalls 13 then in time that could be an option for us should Dingwall want to make himself available and is in form.

[hugh_woatmeigh]

How has Thomson not lived up to his reputation? He has been fantastic for Scarlets. Unless you're specifically talking about his 3 caps in Gregor Townsend's shit-show.

[Chunks Baws]

Gary Graham hasn't shown much in the few appearances he's had. I'm not sure he'll get another chance any time soon.

[Mikey Brown]

Yup. Certainly got that edge that we miss, but it's hard to see him pushing through.

Saying that, I can't think of many of our backrows who look an instant hit when they come in.

[whatisthejava]

How has Thomson not lived up to his reputation? He has been fantastic for Scarlets. Unless you're specifically talking about his 3 caps in Gregor Townsend's shit-show.

id agree i think he just needs time to bed in

Interested to see what every ones back 5 of the pack is

i have no idea if everyone is fit on and in form

Skinner, J Gray, Cummings, Gilchrist
Bradbury, watson, ritchie, thomson, fagerson

9 guys fighting it out for 5 places, ive removed toolis, barclay, wilson, r gray as i dont think they are near starting for us if all fit (for a number of reasons)

Skinner, Cummings,
Bradbury, Watson, Thompson

are probably my starting 5 but the other 4 could push hard

[Big D]

I would go with:

Gray (if we get 2nd half v Japan Gray), Skinner
Ritchie, Watson, Bradbury.

Bradbury v England had glimpses of the type of No.8 performance I want to see from our 8. 2 massive carries off the base of the scrum making yards in tough situation that I don't think Blade can do and he can still truck it up and make breaks.

It is fairly close though across a number of those.

[Big D]

On Blade I don't think 10 games for the Scarlets and 3 or so for Scotland is enough to judge one way or the other.

[Mikey Brown]

For me it's a trade-off between that extra edge in the collisions (Thomson/Fagerson) or the breakdown (Ritchie) that decide who joins Bradbury and Watson.

Very happy for Ritchie to stand in for Mish when he's inevitably injured. Whichever one of them plays there tends to be one of our best players every single game.

Have we ever seen Bradbury and Fagerson in the same backrow?

[switchskier]

In the centres there's also Strahan at Northampton who played for our U20s. Stuck in a bit of a logjam behind Hutchinson, Dingwall, Francis and Proctor though. Has anyone actually seen him play? Do we think he offers more than someone like Taylor at Edinburgh?

I'd also add Blain as a wing option, reckon he'll be capped in the next 12 months.

In the pack this is a big season for Flockhart and Davidson at Glasgow. If they cant nail down places this year they may not ever make it to internationals. Don't expect to see Darge or Boyle at Edinburgh this season though.

[Scottish Caley Fan]

Looks like Christmas has come early for you lot. I've added James Lang to this pointless list of names I've created.

Loose-head
Dell (27), Reid (32), Bhatti (26), Allan (28), Sutherland (27), Marfo (28) ---> Kebble (27), Schoeman (25)

Hooker
McInally (29), Brown (30), Turner (27), Stewart (24), Cherry (28), Kerr (23) ---> Ashman (19)

Tight-head
Nel (33), Fagerson (23), Berghan (29), Rae (24), McCallum (24) ---> Nichol (23)

Lock
J Gray (25), Skinner (24), Cummings (22), Gilchrist (29), R Gray (30), Toolis (27), Swinson (32) ---> Hunter-Hill (22), Carmichael (24), Davidson (22)

Backrow
Barclay (32), Bradbury (24), Ritchie (23), Watson (27), Fagerson (21), Thomson (28), Wilson (30), Ashe (26), Strauss (32), Cowan (LOL) ---> Crosbie (22), Smith (23)

Scrum-half
Laidlaw (33), Horne (24), Price (26), Pyrgos (30), SHC (26) ---> Shiel (21), Dobie (18), Steele (26)

Fly-half
Russell (27), Hastings (23), Weir (28), Lang (24) ---> JVDW (25)

Centre
Johnson (26), Horne (29), Taylor (30), Scott (29), Jones (25), Harris (28), Hutchinson (23), Bennett (26), Dunbar (29), Grigg (27) ---> McDowall (21), Taylor (22), Dean (25), Johnstone (29)

Back Three
Hogg (27), Maitland (31), Seymour (31), Kinghorn (22), Graham (22), Hughes (26), Jones (31), Fife (29) ---> VDM (24), Farndale (25)

I see some geezer McDonald from Glasgow is looking at an International call up for the 6N so, any ideas on him @Mikey Brown ?

https://scrummagazine.com/mcdonald-aims ... d-success/.

[Cameo]

He's not played a huge amount for Glasgow yet so I wouldn't read too much into those comments. Fact is any player getting games at Glasgow or Edinburgh has a reasonable shout at getting called up to a squad at some point.