England vs. New Zealand - Match Thread

[Beasties]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-world ... ngs-shone/
FYI

[Galfon]

Irish fans who bought tickets hoping they’d beat NZ in the QF?

They've covered all options - they're singing at the other SF too.

[Mellsblue]

Stephen Jones being Stephen Jones:

ENGLAND

Elliot Daly
9/10
Saracens
Caps 38 Age 27 Ht 1.84m Wt 94kg
His finest game for England, from his early break right through until the game was over as a contest. A coming of age

Anthony Watson
9/10
Bath
Caps 41 Age 25 Ht 1.85m Wt 93kg
He typified the warrior spirit of this team. His quick feet made him a menace to defenders, and his commitment out wide was awesome

Manu Tuilagi
9/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 39 Age 28 Ht 1.85m Wt 111kg
Should have gone thundering for the line instead of trying to offload on one occasion, but otherwise in epic form and a real handful

Owen Farrell
8/10
Saracens
Caps 78 Age 28 Ht 1.88m Wt 92kg
Suffered a first-half knock, but he continued to lead from the front and looked at home in the centre. England will pray for his recovery


Jonny May
8/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 51 Age 29 Ht 1.88m Wt 90kg
Could have capitalised from an interception in the first half, but otherwise full of pace and power, including a key try-saving tackle

George Ford
10/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 64 Age 26 Ht 1.78m Wt 84kg
This was world-class by England’s fly-half, rich reward for his patience in assuming the position. Brilliant kicking

Ben Youngs
9/10
Leicester Tigers
Caps 94 Age 30 Ht 1.78m Wt 92kg
The day when it all went right. His kicking was on the money, he chose targets well at the ruck and should have had a disallowed try

Mako Vunipola
8/10
Saracens
Caps 57 Age 28 Ht 1.80m Wt 121kg
Near to his explosive best in only his second game back, and the opposition in the final on Saturday can expect further improvement

Jamie George
9/10
Saracens
Caps 44 Age 29 Ht 1.83m Wt 109kg
One of the best hookers in world rugby. He lost the connection with his jumper for the All Blacks try, but otherwise quite outstanding

Kyle Sinckler
8/10
Harlequins
Caps 30 Age 26 Ht 1.83m Wt 113kg
His pace and ability to make hard hits was there for all to see. The tighthead for whom England have been searching for so long

Maro Itoje
9/10
Saracens
Caps 33 Age 25 Ht 1.95m Wt 115kg
On one occasion he blitzed his way through a maul to recover the ball. New Zealand could not handle him. When will he have an off day?

Courtney Lawes
8/10
Northampton Saints
Caps 80 Age 30 Ht 2m Wt 111kg
Justified his selection by turning New Zealand’s lineout inside out in the first half. A fearsome, Martin Johnson-like presence

Tom Curry
9/10
Sale Sharks
Caps 18 Age 21 Ht 1.85m Wt 99kg
Even the great All Blacks flankers must have been nodding in approval. Curry was once the Nowhere Man, but not anymore

Sam Underhill
10/10
Bath
Caps 14 Age 23 Ht 1.86m Wt 103kg
Sometimes it pains you to award full marks in so imperfect a game as rugby. Doing so twice in a row must mean something. Staggering

Billy Vunipola
8/10
Saracens
Caps 50 Age 26 Ht 1.88m Wt 126kg
He drew hordes of tacklers to himself, combined well with Youngs at the base of the scrum and is now approaching his very best

Replacements: The veteran forwards, Joe Marler and Dan Cole, offered tenacity on their arrival and Willi Heinz was almost as good at scrum-half as Youngs had been earlier

TOTAL
131/150

---

NEW ZEALAND

Beauden Barrett
4/10
Blues
Caps 80 Age 28 Ht 1.87m Wt 91kg
A talismanic presence until yesterday, when he failed to make an impact at all. England’s planning and execution shut him out

Sevu Reece
6/10
Crusaders
Caps 6 Age 22 Ht 1.79m Wt 87kg
He did not appear to have either the gas or penetration to succeed at this level, but has had a decent World Cup nonetheless

Jack Goodhue
3/10
Crusaders
Caps 12 Age 24 Ht 1.87m Wt 100kg
Struggled horrendously from the early stages, really hard to see what he could offer his nation

Anton Lienert-Brown
7/10
Chiefs
Caps 41 Age 24 Ht 1.85m Wt 96kg
Easily the most impressive of the New Zealand three-quarters, but still found himself outmuscled by the big men opposite

George Bridge
5/10
Crusaders
Caps 8 Age 24 Ht 1.86m Wt 96kg
Had no real opportunity to flourish, and when he did find himself in possession he was ruthlessly hunted down by white jerseys

Richie Mo’unga
5/10
Crusaders
Caps 16 Age 25 Ht 1.79m Wt 85kg
The experiment that originally succeeded came crashing to Earth yesterday. Hardly caused England a single problem

Aaron Smith
7/10
Highlanders
Caps 90 Age 30 Ht 1.71m Wt 83kg
He retained the pedigree very well, won a couple of turnovers and was the only threat to England around the rucks

Joe Moody
6/10
Crusaders
Caps 44 Age 31 Ht 1.88m Wt 120kg
Not one of his finest evenings in the black jersey, but provided a decent holding operation and his resistance lasted

Codie Taylor
5/10
Crusaders
Caps 49 Age 28 Ht 1.83m Wt 108kg
Another man who struggled badly to get into the game, not nearly as prominent as his opposite number, off the back foot

Nepo Laulala
5/10
Chiefs
Caps 23 Age 27 Ht 1.84m Wt 116kg
He fought an honourable draw in the scrum, made the odd appearance outside but again, not a performance to write home about

Brodie Retallick
8/10
Chiefs
Caps 78 Age 28 Ht 2.04m Wt 123kg
Easily New Zealand’s most prominent player, making one or two line breaks but ultimately his efforts were of little consequence

Sam Whitelock
5/10
Crusaders
Caps 116 Age 31 Ht 2.02m Wt 116kg
A day to forget for the lock, his performance blighted by fits of indiscipline that gave away vital penalties and cost his team dear

Scott Barrett
5/10
Crusaders
Caps 35 Age 25 Ht 1.97m Wt 111kg
A bold selection from Steve Hansen which did not come off, although he did get back to make an excellent tackle on Jonny May

Ardie Savea
7/10
Hurricanes
Caps 38 Age 26 Ht 1.90m Wt 99kg
Made some excellent tackles as his team fought to stem the white tide, was a warrior throughout and deserved better

Kieran Read
5/10
Crusaders
Caps 125 Age 34 Ht 1.93m Wt 109kg
His last major game for the All Blacks, and on the evidence of this ineffectual display, it looks like the right time to call it a day

Replacements: Absolutely no impact whatsoever. But on the day, New Zealand could have brought on Superman and he would have gone south just like all the others

TOTAL
83/150

[Mellsblue]

Irish fans who bought tickets hoping they’d beat NZ in the QF?

They've covered all options - they're singing at the other SF too.

Given their performance against NZ, they probably were more likely to beat SA in the other QF.

[Danno]

I would wonder again how many rucks the two sides hit in the lead up to this game, on attack and defence. As I once again ponder did Eddie go with a kicking game not just to exploit space but also with playing 5 games in 5 weeks in mind (albeit a nice Typhoon knocked us down a match)

It's an intriguing idea. If we win the thing you'll probably find out in the book-laden aftermath

It never occurred to me as a possible method until into the WC and starting to look at team like Ireland and NZ and suddenly (belatedly) realising they were taking many more hits than England. And then you get a side like Japan who slowed as the tournament went on.

SA kick loads too, is my impression

Wales and SA are certainly embracing the theory this morning.

[Renniks]

Paul Grayson's ratings…

Elliot Daly: (8) His ghosting outside break created the first try. Coped well with the move to the wing after Jonny May went off.

Anthony Watson: (8) Flashing feet and a constant menace. Got the better of George Bridge and shut down the Kiwi winger in defence.

Jonny May: (8) Dominated Sevu Reece and exposed New Zealand's weak link in the back three. A master of his craft in the air.

Manu Tuilagi: (9) His best game for England, a constant threat in attack and stifled New Zealand's wide play with his clever defence. A world-class performance.

Owen Farrell: (8) Ran some great lines in the opening quarter and helped George Ford put width on the attack. Gave up the goal-kicking duties after a bang to his leg.

George Ford: (9) The man of the moment. When the questions were asked George Ford stood up. Took over kicking duties to put England out of sight and orchestrated a masterful kicking display to squeeze the life out of the All Blacks. Seized the day.

Ben Youngs: (8) Fantastic all-round display, maintained tempo when England were on attack, and unlucky to have his try disallowed. The best he's been for a while.

Mako Vunipola: (9) Passed, carried, hit, scrummaged and lifted with equal aplomb. He is essential to England's attacking plan.

Jamie George (8): England found space for their jumpers and George found them with a superb throwing display. Dynamism in the loose in attack and a defensive organiser.

Kyle Sinckler: (8) A dynamic display from the barnstorming tight-head, re-writing the rule book on what's capable from that side of the scrum. Hobbled off with injury.

Courtney Lawes: (8) A constant menace in defence and carried the ball strongly in the opening period. Reliable as ever and called a superb line-out.

Maro Itoje: (9) Back to his brilliant best - disciplined, influential, accurate and leads from the front. A top-class performer.

Tom Curry: (9) Relentless doesn't even get close. In attack and defence he seemed to be everywhere. Control of the blindside out of the top drawer. Not seen a performance like that since Richard Hill graced the field.

Sam Underhill: (9) Carved out of granite, Underhill's thunderous tackling and strangulation of the breakdown were vital to England's success. The modern day open-side machine.

Billy Vunipola: (8) Devastating ball carrier, disciplined and accurate in defence. His two flankers afford him the space to do some damage carrying the ball and his big brother keeps him happy.

----

Replacements
Henry Slade: (8) Comfortable in more than one position - settled in at full-back and made a try-saving hit on Sevu Reece. An influential player in England's 23.

Willi Heinz: (7) An easy 20 minutes for scrum-half Heinz because England were so dominant. He was accurate, kept the machine ticking on.

Dan Cole: (7) Veteran tight-head prop, called into action earlier than expected. A rock in the scrum, solid in defence, even had a couple of trundles. Nice cameo.

George Kruis: (7) Added to England's total dominance up front. England's pack finished with total domination.

Luke Cowan-Dickie: (7) Watched Jamie George put in a massive performance, must have enjoyed riding the chariot home.

Joe Marler: (7) Prop gave George Ford a big hug before the game and Ford had the game of his life. Well done, Joe.

Mark Wilson: (8) Gritty doesn't cover it. A key turnover when the game was in the balance maintained England's superiority. Mental strength as well as physical.

Jonathan Joseph: (7) A good day to make sure everybody got on the field. Joseph adds a lot but didn't have time to do much.

[Which Tyler]

How excited must he be right now? The World Cup Final!

Did someone say Stephen Donald? Please can we give Spencer a shot at goal at some point (preferably not through necessity, and a nice easy conversion for a try between the posts)

[Beasties]

How excited must he be right now? The World Cup Final!

Did someone say Stephen Donald? Please can we give Spencer a shot at goal at some point (preferably not through necessity, and a nice easy conversion for a try between the posts)

Long standing bet?

[Which Tyler]

How excited must he be right now? The World Cup Final!

Did someone say Stephen Donald? Please can we give Spencer a shot at goal at some point (preferably not through necessity, and a nice easy conversion for a try between the posts)

Long standing bet?

I may possibly have thought he'd be England's first choice SH by now - as of 4 years ago...
I may possibly have thought he'd be England's go-to long range kicker back then as well...
I may possibly have felt that Eddie was the perfect man to take over after Burt, and make far more of the largely young squad Burt was leaving him, and expected a backlash for this RWC...

I can't possibly comment on the rather lengthy odds I had on an internationally unknown player (and non-FH) scoring from the tee during a RWC final in the aftermath to that same team being knocked out in the pool stages.
I also can't possibly comment that I can't for the life of me remember where I put the slip!
I tend to bet in pints, so it was only a £2 - £2.50 stake. But that would buy me a few rounds at the club on Sunday if it comes through

[Renniks]

Can't be bothered to put it anywhere else but - fcuk me this is awful.

It might work much better against England - but this is one of the worst games I've seen between top tier teams… ever?!

[Mikey Brown]

It’s at least entertainingly bad.

[Beasties]

That's just crap tackling.

Anyone worried Eddie goes back to Faz, Manu, Slade to couterract deAllende?

[Which Tyler]

I'm seeing nothing to worry me today.

Famous last words

All level with 11 minutes to go is nice though, hoping for a brutal extra time

[16th man]

Can't be bothered to put it anywhere else but - fcuk me this is awful.

It might work much better against England - but this is one of the worst games I've seen between top tier teams… ever?!

You deliberately erased your memories of the Andy Robinson era?

It is poor though. Saffers have plenty of power but no real direction for it, and the Welsh don't seem to want to do anything outside a ludicrously narrow plan. 15 phases of one out running into the maw of a Bok defence?

[Banquo]

That's just crap tackling.

Anyone worried Eddie goes back to Faz, Manu, Slade to couterract deAllende?

I mentioned it above- but given they didn’t really use him probably not. SA were appallingly bad I thought

[Digby]

Can't be bothered to put it anywhere else but - fcuk me this is awful.

It might work much better against England - but this is one of the worst games I've seen between top tier teams… ever?!

You deliberately erased your memories of the Andy Robinson era?

It is poor though. Saffers have plenty of power but no real direction for it, and the Welsh don't seem to want to do anything outside a ludicrously narrow plan. 15 phases of one out running into the maw of a Bok defence?

You'd have to wonder if the IRB can't simply demote SA to the 3rd place play-off and promote NZ to the final

[Oakboy]

How good would it be to knock off the three top SH sides one by one in the knock-out stages to win the RWC? Whatever I think about Jones, I'd have to accept that as probably the best sustained performance by any team ever in the professional era.

[Oakboy]

That's just crap tackling.

Anyone worried Eddie goes back to Faz, Manu, Slade to couterract deAllende?

I mentioned it above- but given they didn’t really use him probably not. SA were appallingly bad I thought

That's the one fear: can they be that bad again?

[Banquo]

That's just crap tackling.

Anyone worried Eddie goes back to Faz, Manu, Slade to couterract deAllende?

I mentioned it above- but given they didn’t really use him probably not. SA were appallingly bad I thought

That's the one fear: can they be that bad again?

Hope May is fit to deal with the interminable kicking! They have more in their locker for sure

[Renniks]

How good would it be to knock off the three top SH sides one by one in the knock-out stages to win the RWC? Whatever I think about Jones, I'd have to accept that as probably the best sustained performance by any team ever in the professional era.

IF we managed that… we'd have a 2019 of beating all T1 nations apart from Scotland… That'd be a great year

[Oakboy]

I mentioned it above- but given they didn’t really use him probably not. SA were appallingly bad I thought

That's the one fear: can they be that bad again?

Hope May is fit to deal with the interminable kicking! They have more in their locker for sure

Agreed. Do you think it's time for Coka or Nowell (if fit) on the bench? Maybe not if Farrell is not 100%.

[richy678]

Phew. Really didn't want to play Wales. Too Too much at stake.

The kick charge down caberet at around 47 minutes - under 12's stuff.

Surely the Boks will not play like that next week?

[richy678]

That's the one fear: can they be that bad again?

Hope May is fit to deal with the interminable kicking! They have more in their locker for sure

Agreed. Do you think it's time for Coka or Nowell (if fit) on the bench? Maybe not if Farrell is not 100%.

I would be tempted to say the Boks will just rain down high balls on Daly - thats what I would do.

I would be looking at how we can stop Faf playing and Manu has to stop De Allende.

[Banquo]

That's the one fear: can they be that bad again?

Hope May is fit to deal with the interminable kicking! They have more in their locker for sure

Agreed. Do you think it's time for Coka or Nowell (if fit) on the bench? Maybe not if Farrell is not 100%.

Depends on May's fitness tbh. Not sure what options Eddie realistically has if not fit; Nowell is perma crock, McConnochie not ready, and not even sure if Coka is fit. Suspect may see Slade at 15 if May not right..............

[Digby]

Why would anyone want to stop Faf playing, at the moment just give him the ball and watch him spanner it up