2003 V 2019

[Rich]

2003 Team
Woodman, Thompson, Vickery,
Johnson, Kay,
Hill, Back, Dallaglio,
Dawson, Jonny,
Cohen, Greenwood, Tindall, Robinson,
Lewsey

2019 Team
Mako, George, Sinckler,
Lawes, Itoje,
Curry, Underhill, BillyV,
Youngs, Ford,
May, Farrell, Manu, Watson/Nowell,
Daly

OK you could argue Nowell would take the 14 shirt if fully fit but this is the team that beat the All Blacks and the one I expect to see in the final.

My Choice for a Combined Team
1. Mako or Woodman - Id take Mako
2. Thompson or George - The size of Thompson gives him the edge IMO
3. Sinkler or Vickery - I'd take Sinckler
4. Johnson or Lawes - easy, I'd take Johnson
5. Itoje or Kay - another easy one in Itoje
6. Curry or Hill - Richard Hill is still our best ever flanker - just
7. Back or Underhill - hard one but Underhill - just
8. Dallaglio or BillyV - Dallaglio

On a wet day I could see a Hill (7) - BillyV (8) - Dallaglio (6) back row

9. Dawson or Youngs - easy Dawson
10. Jonny or Ford - is there a doubt - Jonny

11. May or Cohen - I think I'd take Cohen
12. Greenwood or Farrell - I think Farrell plus it gives you a left/right footed combo
13. Tindall or Manu - easy, I'd take a fit Manu all day long
14. Robinson or Nowell/Watson - Billy Wizz takes it - Robinson

15. Lewsey or Daly - another easy one with Lewsey

[Puja]

I disagree with you on a few areas. Woodman was a phenomenal player and actually very underrated, so I'd have him at loosehead. Underhill isn't anywhere near being able to displace one of the holy trinity yet - he's in good form, but he's not up there with Back just yet. May vs Cohen is a judgement call, although I'd take May for being more elusive.

And lastly, and most importantly, I have to say I question your sanity for picking Farrell over Greenwood, who was the best centre in the world for a prolonged period. Terrible pundit, but amazing player.

Puja

[Digby]

I like Woodman but he doesn't have the body of work Mako does, albeit for unhappy reasons

Mako
George
Vickery
Johnson
Itoje
Hill
Back
Vunipola
Dawson
Jonny
May
Greenwood
Tuilagi
Watson
Robinson

[Beasties]

Yup, Woodman never got the chance to prove how good he was over a number of years. The 2003 Vicks was none too shabby either, although I think Sinckler is now proving he's going to be a better player. Totally agree on Greenwood.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Erm....Itoje wears 4, so y’all need to choose between Johnson and Itoje.

[Digby]

Erm....Itoje wears 4, so y’all need to choose between Johnson and Itoje.

I would be willing to live with other teams laughing at us for our ignorance

[Oakboy]

Erm....Itoje wears 4, so y’all need to choose between Johnson and Itoje.

I was thinking that. For once, I would pick a guy just for his captaincy - so, Johnson.

[Epaminondas Pules]

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

[Puja]

Erm....Itoje wears 4, so y’all need to choose between Johnson and Itoje.

I would be willing to live with other teams laughing at us for our ignorance

Agreed - there's no reason why you couldn't play Johnson and Itoje together. They wore the same shirt, but IIRC they packed down on different sides of the scrum.

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

I do agree with this, which is a major surprise to me after the calamitous South Africa tour. His ability with referees has improved as well - I thought he handled Nige very well on Saturday. However, that's not that relevant here when you already have Johnson.

Puja

[Banquo]

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

Seriously true, but seriously unfortunate that he has to be crow barred into the team. Its a serious comment on other 12's.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Erm....Itoje wears 4, so y’all need to choose between Johnson and Itoje.

I would be willing to live with other teams laughing at us for our ignorance

Agreed - there's no reason why you couldn't play Johnson and Itoje together. They wore the same shirt, but IIRC they packed down on different sides of the scrum.

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

I do agree with this, which is a major surprise to me after the calamitous South Africa tour. His ability with referees has improved as well - I thought he handled Nige very well on Saturday. However, that's not that relevant here when you already have Johnson.

Puja

They both pack down behind the tighthead. Well Itoje certainly does when paired Lawes.

[Epaminondas Pules]

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

Seriously true, but seriously unfortunate that he has to be crow barred into the team. Its a serious comment on other 12's.

I’m not sure how he is being crow barred into the team. Aside from Manu at 12 there’s hardly a stellar lineup of players to oust him.

[Banquo]

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

Seriously true, but seriously unfortunate that he has to be crow barred into the team. Its a serious comment on other 12's.

I’m not sure how he is being crow barred into the team. Aside from Manu at 12 there’s hardly a stellar lineup of players to oust him.

See final sentence. But his best position is definitely 10, and Ford imo is our best there, there's a good argument that there are better centre combos than he and Manu, and Manu has to start.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Seriously true, but seriously unfortunate that he has to be crow barred into the team. Its a serious comment on other 12's.

I’m not sure how he is being crow barred into the team. Aside from Manu at 12 there’s hardly a stellar lineup of players to oust him.

See final sentence. But his best position is definitely 10, and Ford imo is our best there, there's a good argument that there are better centre combos than he and Manu, and Manu has to start.

That’s hardly crow barring though is it. That’s basically saying he’s arguably the best available and he appears to be a bloody good captain.

[Banquo]

I’m not sure how he is being crow barred into the team. Aside from Manu at 12 there’s hardly a stellar lineup of players to oust him.

See final sentence. But his best position is definitely 10, and Ford imo is our best there, there's a good argument that there are better centre combos than he and Manu, and Manu has to start.

That’s hardly crow barring though is it. That’s basically saying he’s arguably the best available and he appears to be a bloody good captain.

I didn’t say he’s the best available, though I agree a limited selection; I’d prefer Manu and JJ. I think Francis could likely do a better job at 12 tbh. I am agreeing that he is a much better skipper now, but you have to be worth your place indisputably in the side before you can even be considered as skipper. Coach feels he is, so my thoughts are irrelevant.

[Epaminondas Pules]

See final sentence. But his best position is definitely 10, and Ford imo is our best there, there's a good argument that there are better centre combos than he and Manu, and Manu has to start.

That’s hardly crow barring though is it. That’s basically saying he’s arguably the best available and he appears to be a bloody good captain.

I didn’t say he’s the best available, though I agree a limited selection; I’d prefer Manu and JJ. I think Francis could likely do a better job at 12 tbh. I am agreeing that he is a much better skipper now, but you have to be worth your place indisputably in the side before you can even be considered as skipper. Coach feels he is, so my thoughts are irrelevant.

I know you didn’t. Nor would you. However the lack of alternatives does mean that he’s arguably the best option, which is the same thing.

And indeed, the coach does and so far he’s been proven pretty much right. A learning curve along the way as a team, but with the goal of the World Cup being foremost it’s hard to argue with his decisions to date.

[Banquo]

That’s hardly crow barring though is it. That’s basically saying he’s arguably the best available and he appears to be a bloody good captain.

I didn’t say he’s the best available, though I agree a limited selection; I’d prefer Manu and JJ. I think Francis could likely do a better job at 12 tbh. I am agreeing that he is a much better skipper now, but you have to be worth your place indisputably in the side before you can even be considered as skipper. Coach feels he is, so my thoughts are irrelevant.

Well indeed, the coach does and so far he’s been proven pretty much right. A learning curve along the way as a team, but with the goal of the World Cup being foremost it’s hard to argue with his decisions to date.

Yep. I think he could do better at 9 and midfield, but I'm not paid to make the call.

[Epaminondas Pules]

I didn’t say he’s the best available, though I agree a limited selection; I’d prefer Manu and JJ. I think Francis could likely do a better job at 12 tbh. I am agreeing that he is a much better skipper now, but you have to be worth your place indisputably in the side before you can even be considered as skipper. Coach feels he is, so my thoughts are irrelevant.

Well indeed, the coach does and so far he’s been proven pretty much right. A learning curve along the way as a team, but with the goal of the World Cup being foremost it’s hard to argue with his decisions to date.

Yep. I think he could do better at 9 and midfield, but I'm not paid to make the call.

Equally fullback for me, but then we are where we are, so I’ll take EJs knowledge and results over my quibbles any day. Now the big ask is backing up lack Saturday and seeing this through. SA might look less of a challenge in one sense, but they are a proper threat.

[Puja]

Well indeed, the coach does and so far he’s been proven pretty much right. A learning curve along the way as a team, but with the goal of the World Cup being foremost it’s hard to argue with his decisions to date.

Yep. I think he could do better at 9 and midfield, but I'm not paid to make the call.

Equally fullback for me, but then we are where we are, so I’ll take EJs knowledge and results over my quibbles any day. Now the big ask is backing up lack Saturday and seeing this through. SA might look less of a challenge in one sense, but they are a proper threat.

Eddie has ruined this board. Even when we went on our early unbeaten run, we were still allowed complaints because it didn't include the All Blacks and so wasn't definitive. Now we're on the verge of winning the RWC by having beaten every other T1 nation in the last 12 months (except Scotland, weirdly), with the knockout rounds being Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and we're faced with the horrifying prospect of not having any grounds to criticise the coach on, or at least having to couch any criticisms in "but I guess I must be wrong, cause his results show he knows what he's doing."

Maybe we should all be hoping for a South Africa win to restore some order to the universe?

Puja

[Peej]

Yep. I think he could do better at 9 and midfield, but I'm not paid to make the call.

Equally fullback for me, but then we are where we are, so I’ll take EJs knowledge and results over my quibbles any day. Now the big ask is backing up lack Saturday and seeing this through. SA might look less of a challenge in one sense, but they are a proper threat.

Eddie has ruined this board. Even when we went on our early unbeaten run, we were still allowed complaints because it didn't include the All Blacks and so wasn't definitive. Now we're on the verge of winning the RWC by having beaten every other T1 nation in the last 12 months (except Scotland, weirdly), with the knockout rounds being Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and we're faced with the horrifying prospect of not having any grounds to criticise the coach on, or at least having to couch any criticisms in "but I guess I must be wrong, cause his results show he knows what he's doing."

Maybe we should all be hoping for a South Africa win to restore some order to the universe?

Puja

Well after that, if things don't go our way on Saturday I won't be blaming Eddie, I'll be blaming you, Puja

[Renniks]

Yep. I think he could do better at 9 and midfield, but I'm not paid to make the call.

Equally fullback for me, but then we are where we are, so I’ll take EJs knowledge and results over my quibbles any day. Now the big ask is backing up lack Saturday and seeing this through. SA might look less of a challenge in one sense, but they are a proper threat.

Eddie has ruined this board. Even when we went on our early unbeaten run, we were still allowed complaints because it didn't include the All Blacks and so wasn't definitive. Now we're on the verge of winning the RWC by having beaten every other T1 nation in the last 12 months (except Scotland, weirdly), with the knockout rounds being Australia, New Zealand, South Africa and we're faced with the horrifying prospect of not having any grounds to criticise the coach on, or at least having to couch any criticisms in "but I guess I must be wrong, cause his results show he knows what he's doing."

Maybe we should all be hoping for a South Africa win to restore some order to the universe?

Puja

Until we beat Scotland I won't be happy.

962 days (and counting!) since we last beat them (and no chance of a reprieve until 1064 days will have passed!)

[Banquo]

Well indeed, the coach does and so far he’s been proven pretty much right. A learning curve along the way as a team, but with the goal of the World Cup being foremost it’s hard to argue with his decisions to date.

Yep. I think he could do better at 9 and midfield, but I'm not paid to make the call.

Equally fullback for me, but then we are where we are, so I’ll take EJs knowledge and results over my quibbles any day. Now the big ask is backing up lack Saturday and seeing this through. SA might look less of a challenge in one sense, but they are a proper threat.

Tru all dat.

[Which Tyler]

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

Seriously true, but seriously unfortunate that he has to be crow barred into the team. Its a serious comment on other 12's.

This - seriously

[Banquo]

That said I don’t think anyone can deny the 2019 players seriously respond to Faz. He’s done a fabulous job galvanising the team. I know that’ll cause some people serious turmoil, but he’s been bloody excellent in that regard.

Seriously true, but seriously unfortunate that he has to be crow barred into the team. Its a serious comment on other 12's.

This - seriously

Srsly

[Puja]

Seriously true, but seriously unfortunate that he has to be crow barred into the team. Its a serious comment on other 12's.

This - seriously

Srsly

#mood

Puja