Team for Scotland

[Digby]

As long as he doesn't go on to have a coaching career that reminds of Warren Gatland

[p/d]

I’d take Genge’s ramblings over Guscott’s analysis all day long

[Banquo]

I’d take Genge’s ramblings over Guscott’s analysis all day long

well yes, ditto Jonny. Low bar though.

[Banquo]

That just how Genge is. The sausage comment is a common one for him and to be fair he’s right. And made I giggle too

Not judging especially, it’s just naive, and even if he doesn’t like it, playing the press is part of the job. Hopefully they won’t turn on him as it’s good copy.

That said, the gobbledygook coming out of Wilkinson yesterday needs a bit of mockery. It’s like a walking self help book.

I'd like to think in an age where the Department for Health and Social Care have refused to talk to the media about Coronavirus, or the Government have refused to talk to the BBC it'd be given scant coverage. But it's the sort of thing which will be looked at if/when England lose and Genge contributes to that loss. But I don't imagine Genge is going to back down

He sure isn't- doubled down on his twitter account

[twitchy]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-17702027

[Banquo]

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rug ... l-17702027

Nice to read, and I'll recalibrate a bit on Faz.

[Mikey Brown]

Jesus that was a lot of words in order to find out he gave him a shirt.

[Timbo]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

[twitchy]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

Yeah I totally agree. The whole game was basically a dice roll. It also makes the idea of bonus points a bit meaningless. The whole game should have been moved to cardiff and we could played with a roof on.

[Banquo]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

Whilst I agree on the criticism of tactics being misplaced, I think your comment about 'totally unfair to criticise anyone' is wide of the mark. The kicking execution was poor on too many occasions- as they said on commentary, don't go for very precise, give yourself a wider margin for error. Generally I think the pack gets a very decent mark, less so those with kicking duties, whilst accepting that some plays were very tricky.

[twitchy]

The wind seemed to be swirling and gusting though. Even giving yourself a wider margin of error it seemed completely un predictable.

[Banquo]

The wind seemed to be swirling and gusting though. Even giving yourself a wider margin of error it seemed completely un predictable.

Heinz kicked two in a row identically within 5 minutes, both went into touch. Youngs came on and kicked it 20 yards further infield, not impossible. We put 11 kicks straight into touch. That's poor, even accounting for the conditions. Keeping it low, keeping it infield seemed to be the order of the day . I do accept it was bloody difficult, hence not baying for blood on the tactics.

[Puja]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

For certain values, I do agree with you, but I'm amazed at how much we kicked. We had a big tight five, with another tight five on the bench, and instead of keeping the ball, we belted it up in the air and turned it into a dice roll. Fine, it wasn't the day for flinging wide passes, but wouldn't it have been the day for forwards running onto short passes and little offloads in contact? We actually did that for a bit of the first half and it got us into position for our first two penalties. Then we got ahead and gave up having the ball for the day. Why pick Mako and Sinckler and never use them?

Puja

[p/d]

The wind seemed to be swirling and gusting though. Even giving yourself a wider margin of error it seemed completely un predictable.

Heinz kicked two in a row identically within 5 minutes, both went into touch. Youngs came on and kicked it 20 yards further infield, not impossible. We put 11 kicks straight into touch. That's poor, even accounting for the conditions. Keeping it low, keeping it infield seemed to be the order of the day . I do accept it was bloody difficult, hence not baying for blood on the tactics.

11? Wow, that’s more than I thought.
Just do not understand why we didn’t opt for Sally Gunnell’s or chip over (worked well a couple of times for Hastings). Looked to me as if we just didn’t want the ball however our pack could have worked far more phases. Certainly we had the 14 of them for it.

[Banquo]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

For certain values, I do agree with you, but I'm amazed at how much we kicked. We had a big tight five, with another tight five on the bench, and instead of keeping the ball, we belted it up in the air and turned it into a dice roll. Fine, it wasn't the day for flinging wide passes, but wouldn't it have been the day for forwards running onto short passes and little offloads in contact? We actually did that for a bit of the first half and it got us into position for our first two penalties. Then we got ahead and gave up having the ball for the day. Why pick Mako and Sinckler and never use them?

Puja

Mako and Sinckler touched the ball more than any other forwards bar Curry . It was hard going making territory going through phases, though I did think we overdid the kicking playing what was 'into the wind'; the oddest calls were Faz's kicks for goal which cost us 50 yards the times he missed....going to the touchline was a better bet.

In general, keeping the ball playing into the wind is a good plan, and more so in such extreme conditions; early on though, Faz showed the way with nice slides through, and attacking their line out was pretty productive.

[Mikey Brown]

If you get a penalty kick for touch and the ball hits the ground first (or you grubber it) do you still get the throw in? Or does it just become like any other kick in open play? There may be an obvious reason that’s not a valid tactic.

[Puja]

If you get a penalty kick for touch and the ball hits the ground first (or you grubber it) do you still get the throw in? Or does it just become like any other kick in open play? There may be an obvious reason that’s not a valid tactic.

You do still get the throw in but, as always, the bounce of a rugby ball always hates you, so it's a greater risk than kicking on the full. Also, any half-decent team will have people covering the lines.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Yes, the weather was a huge factor but when was the last match that we did NOT kick too much. Kicking is an essential part of the game obviously but it's effectiveness needs constant judgement and its use constant adjustment. We have a game where 9, 10 and 12 all kick by default. It is predictable and boring.

[Timbo]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

For certain values, I do agree with you, but I'm amazed at how much we kicked. We had a big tight five, with another tight five on the bench, and instead of keeping the ball, we belted it up in the air and turned it into a dice roll. Fine, it wasn't the day for flinging wide passes, but wouldn't it have been the day for forwards running onto short passes and little offloads in contact? We actually did that for a bit of the first half and it got us into position for our first two penalties. Then we got ahead and gave up having the ball for the day. Why pick Mako and Sinckler and never use them?

Puja

No, I don’t think there was any value in playing rugby outside of the oppo 22 or so. Little offloads in contact is, to my mind, just marking time until someone drops the ball in those conditions.

Banquo, yes there are individual moments that can be critiqued, but the fact so many normally very good kickers struggled on both sides just highlights the difficulty of executing in the conditions.

[Puja]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

For certain values, I do agree with you, but I'm amazed at how much we kicked. We had a big tight five, with another tight five on the bench, and instead of keeping the ball, we belted it up in the air and turned it into a dice roll. Fine, it wasn't the day for flinging wide passes, but wouldn't it have been the day for forwards running onto short passes and little offloads in contact? We actually did that for a bit of the first half and it got us into position for our first two penalties. Then we got ahead and gave up having the ball for the day. Why pick Mako and Sinckler and never use them?

Puja

Mako and Sinckler touched the ball more than any other forwards bar Curry .

Don't you bring facts into this debate! They contradict my feelings and thus are disbarred.

No, I don’t think there was any value in playing rugby outside of the oppo 22 or so. Little offloads in contact is, to my mind, just marking time until someone drops the ball in those conditions.

Banquo, yes there are individual moments that can be critiqued, but the fact so many normally very good kickers struggled on both sides just highlights the difficulty of executing in the conditions.

So your argument is that keeping the ball and playing close, tight rugby with short runners would have eventually led to a knock-on, so better to belt the ball away and take a 50-50 shot that the wind either blew it back towards us or to took it straight into touch? I'd argue a well drilled team should do better running into that wind than they should attempting to kick into it.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

Those ones out on the full were nearly killers in the second half. One could see the plan to pin them in their 22 for the second half was sound considering how the enventual try did get scored.

[Banquo]

Some of the comments on here a bit absurd. Go out today, with 60mph winds all the rage, and imagine trying to play rugby in those conditions. Deserved win cos we dominated setpiece and were physically on top in defence. Good character from the team and excellent defence a few times on our own goal line.

2 weeks will be the real test obviously, but totally unfair to criticise anyone for yesterday imo.

For certain values, I do agree with you, but I'm amazed at how much we kicked. We had a big tight five, with another tight five on the bench, and instead of keeping the ball, we belted it up in the air and turned it into a dice roll. Fine, it wasn't the day for flinging wide passes, but wouldn't it have been the day for forwards running onto short passes and little offloads in contact? We actually did that for a bit of the first half and it got us into position for our first two penalties. Then we got ahead and gave up having the ball for the day. Why pick Mako and Sinckler and never use them?

Puja

No, I don’t think there was any value in playing rugby outside of the oppo 22 or so. Little offloads in contact is, to my mind, just marking time until someone drops the ball in those conditions.

Banquo, yes there are individual moments that can be critiqued, but the fact so many normally very good kickers struggled on both sides just highlights the difficulty of executing in the conditions.

There were some pretty obviously egregious examples on our side- I actually thought Scotland kicked pretty well, bar two awful ones from Price who was knackered and a poor high ball from Hastings (they executed lots of nice little chips, and just kicked long and down the middle with the wind). Heinz's making the same mistake twice was daft- he hit them well, he just didn't think; Daly didn't have much excuse either, and 11 out on the full was ludicrously bad- as I said, if you are going to put any height on the ball, just keep it well infield.

[Timbo]

For certain values, I do agree with you, but I'm amazed at how much we kicked. We had a big tight five, with another tight five on the bench, and instead of keeping the ball, we belted it up in the air and turned it into a dice roll. Fine, it wasn't the day for flinging wide passes, but wouldn't it have been the day for forwards running onto short passes and little offloads in contact? We actually did that for a bit of the first half and it got us into position for our first two penalties. Then we got ahead and gave up having the ball for the day. Why pick Mako and Sinckler and never use them?

Puja

Mako and Sinckler touched the ball more than any other forwards bar Curry .

Don't you bring facts into this debate! They contradict my feelings and thus are disbarred.

No, I don’t think there was any value in playing rugby outside of the oppo 22 or so. Little offloads in contact is, to my mind, just marking time until someone drops the ball in those conditions.

Banquo, yes there are individual moments that can be critiqued, but the fact so many normally very good kickers struggled on both sides just highlights the difficulty of executing in the conditions.

So your argument is that keeping the ball and playing close, tight rugby with short runners would have eventually led to a knock-on, so better to belt the ball away and take a 50-50 shot that the wind either blew it back towards us or to took it straight into touch? I'd argue a well drilled team should do better running into that wind than they should attempting to kick into it.

Puja

Most of our kicks were in our own half or around the half way line. I’d question the point of playing rugby in those areas in those conditions. Without the credible threat of going wide you’re just asking your pack to fight like mad for very small gains against a set defence 50-60 metres from their posts. To what end?

Also, can’t really describe a kicking strategy of putting them under pressure through kicking and giving them the ball as a lottery when we had a big edge in the setpiece.

[Puja]

Mako and Sinckler touched the ball more than any other forwards bar Curry .

Don't you bring facts into this debate! They contradict my feelings and thus are disbarred.

No, I don’t think there was any value in playing rugby outside of the oppo 22 or so. Little offloads in contact is, to my mind, just marking time until someone drops the ball in those conditions.

Banquo, yes there are individual moments that can be critiqued, but the fact so many normally very good kickers struggled on both sides just highlights the difficulty of executing in the conditions.

So your argument is that keeping the ball and playing close, tight rugby with short runners would have eventually led to a knock-on, so better to belt the ball away and take a 50-50 shot that the wind either blew it back towards us or to took it straight into touch? I'd argue a well drilled team should do better running into that wind than they should attempting to kick into it.

Puja

Most of our kicks were in our own half or around the half way line. I’d question the point of playing rugby in those areas in those conditions. Without the credible threat of going wide you’re just asking your pack to fight like mad for very small gains against a set defence 50-60 metres from their posts. To what end?

Also, can’t really describe a kicking strategy of putting them under pressure through kicking and giving them the ball as a lottery when we had a big edge in the setpiece.

Keeping the ball. Applying pressure. Wearing them down, considering we had an edge in forwards replacements. Trying to apply our quality over theirs, instead of punting the ball high and reducing the game to a coin toss. Encouraging them to bring players up to defend and thus creating space for kicks behind, instead of doing two carries then a caterpillar to give them ample time to drop four players back to cover every blade of grass.

I'll agree that we did have an edge in the set piece, but most of our kicks didn't lead to a set piece. Well, excepting the ones that went out on the full, but I'm assuming they weren't part of the plan.

Puja

[Danno]

I'm assuming they weren't part of the plan.

Puja

Given how much Scotland lineout we spoiled, it was a pretty credible plan