Leicester vs Wasps

[Banquo]

I'd like the ref to announce, "ball won - use" and give the SH 3 seconds to do something with it. No more adding players and fannying around. Get the bloody thing out.
Now thats off my chest.....
The game was low grade stuff. Wasps gave Tigers a 10 point swing by Kibirige making a dreadful hash of putting the ball down, and then Umaga making a mess of a fairly simple pass. That, and the Tigers driving maul were enough.

Starting 10's just weren't very good; poor Hardwick had a mare.

[Banquo]

Couple of locks, bring in Willis and Dombrandt/Mercer/Wilson

was asking dors (probably right)

I think Willis is our best flanker so anyone theoretically. Even if Billy was fit, I'd still have Willis in the XV. So, my first choice back row would be Willis, Curry, Billy V. I'd have Underhill as the reserve flanker and Hughes as the reserve 8 with Wilson in the squad as the best versatile bench man. Once Dombrandt adds consistency, I'd pick him ahead of Hughes.

That's a massive leap, given the proven quality of Underhill and Curry internationally. But I think he is potentially a significant player internationally for us.

Interesting how Billy V has now become indispensable, whereas pre injury he apparently wasn't playing well

[Epaminondas Pules]

Odd affair; lots of mistakes, but a win is a win. Worth it just to hear Lol whinge all game about anything going against Wasps in his mind. Willis was excellent. He’s right on the line of legal at times which is exactly where you want a flanker. Such a fucking nuisance if you’re against him.

[francoisfou]

My first match at WR this season and far from perfect, but the second half performance of the Tigers’ forwards was very good and the win was well deserved. Tigers got stuck in and got four points! All is far from lost !

[Oakboy]

was asking dors (probably right)

I think Willis is our best flanker so anyone theoretically. Even if Billy was fit, I'd still have Willis in the XV. So, my first choice back row would be Willis, Curry, Billy V. I'd have Underhill as the reserve flanker and Hughes as the reserve 8 with Wilson in the squad as the best versatile bench man. Once Dombrandt adds consistency, I'd pick him ahead of Hughes.

That's a massive leap, given the proven quality of Underhill and Curry internationally. But I think he is potentially a significant player internationally for us.

Interesting how Billy V has now become indispensable, whereas pre injury he apparently wasn't playing well

We all pick on the basis of players being fully fit and at their best. If we were to write off the injury-prone ones, might all of Slade, Watson, Tuilagi, Joseph, Mako, Launchbury and Nowell join Billy in getting dumped?

Mind you, take out the ones that Jones has broken in training and things look better - marginally.

[fivepointer]

FFS. Youngs punches Rowlands in the face, not seen, tigers score from the next maul. Over the shoulder tackle, not given as high, no try for wasps next phase of play leicester gifted a length of the field try.

Bollocks.

Leicester Tigers forward Tom Youngs is to appear before an independent disciplinary panel on Tuesday, 18 February.
RFU
Youngs was cited by independent citing commissioner Andy Blyth following the match between Leicester Tigers and Wasps on Saturday 15 February 2020.

This citing was for punching or striking Wasps' Will Rowlands in the 53rd minute of the match, contrary to World Rugby Law 9.12.

The independent panel will comprise Jeremy Summers (chair), with Nick Garling and one other panel member to be confirmed.

Poor that nothing was done at the time. Seemed a pretty clear cut punch.

[Digby]

FFS. Youngs punches Rowlands in the face, not seen, tigers score from the next maul. Over the shoulder tackle, not given as high, no try for wasps next phase of play leicester gifted a length of the field try.

Bollocks.

Leicester Tigers forward Tom Youngs is to appear before an independent disciplinary panel on Tuesday, 18 February.
RFU
Youngs was cited by independent citing commissioner Andy Blyth following the match between Leicester Tigers and Wasps on Saturday 15 February 2020.

This citing was for punching or striking Wasps' Will Rowlands in the 53rd minute of the match, contrary to World Rugby Law 9.12.

The independent panel will comprise Jeremy Summers (chair), with Nick Garling and one other panel member to be confirmed.

Poor that nothing was done at the time. Seemed a pretty clear cut punch.

In retrospect the mascot who refused to go out on the pitch with Youngs was right to be wary of Youngs

[Puja]

FFS. Youngs punches Rowlands in the face, not seen, tigers score from the next maul. Over the shoulder tackle, not given as high, no try for wasps next phase of play leicester gifted a length of the field try.

Bollocks.

Leicester Tigers forward Tom Youngs is to appear before an independent disciplinary panel on Tuesday, 18 February.
RFU
Youngs was cited by independent citing commissioner Andy Blyth following the match between Leicester Tigers and Wasps on Saturday 15 February 2020.

This citing was for punching or striking Wasps' Will Rowlands in the 53rd minute of the match, contrary to World Rugby Law 9.12.

The independent panel will comprise Jeremy Summers (chair), with Nick Garling and one other panel member to be confirmed.

Poor that nothing was done at the time. Seemed a pretty clear cut punch.

Agreed. I'm happy cause it was immediately before our first try, but I'd be spitting tacks if I were a Wasps fan.

Puja

[Digby]

Though in truth Wasps lost that game in the maul

[Digby]

That said not just the first try for Leicester came after an error from the officiating team, but also that first conversion took around 100 seconds, yes the ball blew over but it's not relevant to the time limit

[Oakboy]

That said not just the first try for Leicester came after an error from the officiating team, but also that first conversion took around 100 seconds, yes the ball blew over but it's not relevant to the time limit

Has there been an instance of the time limit being applied recently? I can't remember one. Mind you, I'd penalise Farrell every time on principle. I find his build-up to place kicks excruciatingly embarrassing.

[Raggs]

Though in truth Wasps lost that game in the maul

Mauling might be easier against 7 players in a pack. Or, if they took off a back, there'd likely not have been anyone to scrag (potentially high) Kibirige in the corner.

EDIT - And just to vent, a deliberate knock on 10m from the try line, in a team going forwards, could perhaps be looked at as a yellow.

[Scrumhead]

Couple of locks, bring in Willis and Dombrandt/Mercer/Wilson

was asking dors (probably right)

I think Willis is our best flanker so anyone theoretically. Even if Billy was fit, I'd still have Willis in the XV. So, my first choice back row would be Willis, Curry, Billy V. I'd have Underhill as the reserve flanker and Hughes as the reserve 8 with Wilson in the squad as the best versatile bench man. Once Dombrandt adds consistency, I'd pick him ahead of Hughes.

The first statement is a bit of a stretch given that we’re yet to see whether Willis can make the step-up to test level. Change it to ‘potentially our best flanker’ and I’d agree with you.

FWIW, I’d definitely like to see the back row you’ve proposed. I just don’t like the idea of Hughes on the bench and I’d prefer to see Mercer and Dombrandt competing to take over from Billy. As always, I’m a huge fan of Wilson so I’d be more than happy with him as our back row cover.

[Oakboy]

was asking dors (probably right)

I think Willis is our best flanker so anyone theoretically. Even if Billy was fit, I'd still have Willis in the XV. So, my first choice back row would be Willis, Curry, Billy V. I'd have Underhill as the reserve flanker and Hughes as the reserve 8 with Wilson in the squad as the best versatile bench man. Once Dombrandt adds consistency, I'd pick him ahead of Hughes.

The first statement is a bit of a stretch given that we’re yet to see whether Willis can make the step-up to test level. Change it to ‘potentially our best flanker’ and I’d agree with you.

FWIW, I’d definitely like to see the back row you’ve proposed. I just don’t like the idea of Hughes on the bench and I’d prefer to see Mercer and Dombrandt competing to take over from Billy. As always, I’m a huge fan of Wilson so I’d be more than happy with him as our back row cover.

I'd not have Hughes on the bench. If Billy is out and Dombrandt fails to convince on a consistency measure, I'd start Hughes. Once Dombrandt does convince, game to game, week to week, I'd start him. I'd always have Wilson in the 20 shirt.

I think international selection should have its primary objective as choosing the best overall team ceiling, especially in the first year of the RWC cycle. IMO, Willis has to be in our back row if it is selected on that basis. He can do what none of the others can in the jackalling stakes.

I know I am an idealist. I'd have picked Cipriani for these last four years, for example, just because his best is better than anyone else's best. I now see Slade as an essential asset with that sort of emphasis in mind. I'd have Ibitoye in the squad.

At this stage, I'd also go fatalistic about those who won't be raising our ceiling in 2023 so no Cole, Youngs, Heinz, Kruis etc. The snag is that the blazers have not set out the required parameters for the head coach. We don't know his employment targets. They should be open and achievable. Our game and our potential are too big for a maverick like Jones.

[Digby]

That said not just the first try for Leicester came after an error from the officiating team, but also that first conversion took around 100 seconds, yes the ball blew over but it's not relevant to the time limit

Has there been an instance of the time limit being applied recently? I can't remember one. Mind you, I'd penalise Farrell every time on principle. I find his build-up to place kicks excruciatingly embarrassing.

Not that I recall, though at least the ref told him to hurry up this time and then let him off anyway

[Digby]

Though in truth Wasps lost that game in the maul

Mauling might be easier against 7 players in a pack. Or, if they took off a back, there'd likely not have been anyone to scrag (potentially high) Kibirige in the corner.

EDIT - And just to vent, a deliberate knock on 10m from the try line, in a team going forwards, could perhaps be looked at as a yellow.

But you don't go into a game assuming you'll get to play a side a man down, not even with Lavanini in their side. Wasps need much better plans to address that maul/power game than hope Launch is available and plays like a monster, and fwiw Brookes hasn't shown the improvement in this area that Francis has, and he's one of your options who could do more in the maul

[Raggs]

Though in truth Wasps lost that game in the maul

Mauling might be easier against 7 players in a pack. Or, if they took off a back, there'd likely not have been anyone to scrag (potentially high) Kibirige in the corner.

EDIT - And just to vent, a deliberate knock on 10m from the try line, in a team going forwards, could perhaps be looked at as a yellow.

But you don't go into a game assuming you'll get to play a side a man down, not even with Lavanini in their side. Wasps need much better plans to address that maul/power game than hope Launch is available and plays like a monster, and fwiw Brookes hasn't shown the improvement in this area that Francis has, and he's one of your options who could do more in the maul

Absolutely not. Having 3 fit locks, not playing an academy player fresh from uni (and whilst skilled, not really a power lock) would have been nice. Brookes could do a lot more around most his game, but he tends to switch off often and easily.

[Digby]

Mauling might be easier against 7 players in a pack. Or, if they took off a back, there'd likely not have been anyone to scrag (potentially high) Kibirige in the corner.

EDIT - And just to vent, a deliberate knock on 10m from the try line, in a team going forwards, could perhaps be looked at as a yellow.

But you don't go into a game assuming you'll get to play a side a man down, not even with Lavanini in their side. Wasps need much better plans to address that maul/power game than hope Launch is available and plays like a monster, and fwiw Brookes hasn't shown the improvement in this area that Francis has, and he's one of your options who could do more in the maul

Absolutely not. Having 3 fit locks, not playing an academy player fresh from uni (and whilst skilled, not really a power lock) would have been nice. Brookes could do a lot more around most his game, but he tends to switch off often and easily.

Brookes could do a lot more, but a lot of that might take a fair amount of skills and/or physical work. The extra mauling work looks tailor made for him as is, and then it doesn't happen. I wondered where your lock who wasn't Rowlands came from, not a power lock would be putting it kindly, though in fairness it was a horrible day for rugby and he's very inexperienced at this level

[Raggs]

He's from loughborough university, played 10 until he was in his 2nd year of uni (playing for their fifths), went to Argentina for a year to learn how to play as a forward. He's really handy, but still built like a 10 for the most part.

Launch, Gaskell, Matthews etc would have all helped.

[Digby]

Launch is just class, Gaskell I think can be class but doesn't string enough quality performances together, Matthews I'm not sold on. As a group it doesn't suggest pushing top 4, Launch can't do it all. And then you're being linked with Mils, I assume to replace Gopperth, and he will not come cheap.

It doesn't really feel like Wasps have a plan to go from where they are to top 6, and certainly not top 4, really their league place as is looks entirely reasonable, and yet the margins are also small, Wasps have lost 5-6 close games this season and if just top of those are turned around they're top 6 in the league.

[Peej]

Youngs has got a four week ban for the punch. Quite how you can commit an offence that gets that kind of ban and it not be sanctioned in the match - given the TMO, all the camera angles, the comms - is pretty piss poor. One hopes the referee feedback process is robust

[Raggs]

Youngs has got a four week ban for the punch. Quite how you can commit an offence that gets that kind of ban and it not be sanctioned in the match - given the TMO, all the camera angles, the comms - is pretty piss poor. One hopes the referee feedback process is robust

The TMO, the camera angles, the comms, and the fact the player immediately told the ref that he'd just been smacked in the fact in the previous play...

[Mikey Brown]

Youngs has got a four week ban for the punch. Quite how you can commit an offence that gets that kind of ban and it not be sanctioned in the match - given the TMO, all the camera angles, the comms - is pretty piss poor. One hopes the referee feedback process is robust

I’m still not totally clear if the lack of a red card at the time is factored in to the length of the ban. It seems like it should be.

[Danno]

You could have specified which Youngs, I went and got my hopes right up

[Banquo]

Youngs has got a four week ban for the punch. Quite how you can commit an offence that gets that kind of ban and it not be sanctioned in the match - given the TMO, all the camera angles, the comms - is pretty piss poor. One hopes the referee feedback process is robust

The TMO, the camera angles, the comms, and the fact the player immediately told the ref that he'd just been smacked in the fact in the previous play...

Pi55 poor officiating in that game. Which severely disadvantaged wasps.