Spiffy wrote:
I don't think anyone is really claiming any violence about it. And it is not about violence in any case. It's all about handling the genitals. It's a no-no, just as it is in real life. You can't walk up to someone in the street and fondle his or her private parts, claiming it's just for a bit of a joke, and expect to get away with it. Marler is thick as a plank to do this in an international game in full view of millions. Hopefully the sentence will deter others of a similar bent (no pun intended.)
Okay, but if it's about what you can do on the street then AWJ has his forearm/elbow in the throat of Marler, and I suspect on the street that's called assault, so if it's about the street oh Huggy Bear then more bans are needed
Point taken. But I think society has placed the genitals in a separate, no-go area, whether we like it or not. Giving a bloke a shove is not the same, physiologically or psychologically, as grabbing his tackle. I speak as one who has been both thumped and sac grabbed on the field more than once. The former did not phase me too much but the latter totally boiled my piss (as was probably intended.) Most players I knew felt the same way.
A young Jonny Wilkinson having played some trembling early games for England turned out for Newcastle against Quins and wondered what was the protocol when it came to handling someone like Jason Leonard, someone who was now courtesy of England a team mate, first chance Leonard got he punched Jonny in the bollocks and Jonny had an answer to his question
Nonetheless if you want to cite something as being illegal off field as being reason to pursue it I'm only going to ask for consistency, though I'm not going to expect it, I'll just be annoyed at the inconsistency
Had my balls aqueezed in a maul one day - totally disgusting and way worse than any other foul act i was subject to - if they gave marler 6 months i wouldnt be bothered. It's sexual assault basically
Putting aside what is and isn’t socially acceptable it was just a fecking odd thing to do. Ban is more than justified, irrespective of what sanctions are handed out for other ‘offences’.
p/d wrote:Putting aside what is and isn’t socially acceptable it was just a fecking odd thing to do. Ban is more than justified, irrespective of what sanctions are handed out for other ‘offences’.
Agreed. I think he thought it would be hilarious and generate loads of banter on twatter or whatever. It didn't. Add in the samaon lee thing and could not be hearing anything in defence of this absolute plank
p/d wrote:Putting aside what is and isn’t socially acceptable it was just a fecking odd thing to do. Ban is more than justified, irrespective of what sanctions are handed out for other ‘offences’.
The length of bans for other offences isn't irrelevant though, neither Marler nor the offence he was charged with exist in a vacuum
paddy no 11 wrote:Had my balls aqueezed in a maul one day - totally disgusting and way worse than any other foul act i was subject to - if they gave marler 6 months i wouldnt be bothered. It's sexual assault basically
As a young lad I can recall dating a few girls, maybe not even dating, and grabbing (fondling?) a few things which was sometimes appreciated and sometimes not, acts which weren't appreciated were not followed up on. But if a mild grope is a sexual assault that needs to be acted on you're going to spend a lot of time policing the process across society
p/d wrote:Putting aside what is and isn’t socially acceptable it was just a fecking odd thing to do. Ban is more than justified, irrespective of what sanctions are handed out for other ‘offences’.
The length of bans for other offences isn't irrelevant though, neither Marler nor the offence he was charged with exist in a vacuum
What he was charged with has a minimum sentence of 12 weeks - so he's blessed to get 10
paddy no 11 wrote:Had my balls aqueezed in a maul one day - totally disgusting and way worse than any other foul act i was subject to - if they gave marler 6 months i wouldnt be bothered. It's sexual assault basically
As a young lad I can recall dating a few girls, maybe not even dating, and grabbing (fondling?) a few things which was sometimes appreciated and sometimes not, acts which weren't appreciated were not followed up on. But if a mild grope is a sexual assault that needs to be acted on you're going to spend a lot of time policing the process across society
This is nonsense, anyone groping someone should expect to face the law, if marler done it on camera in front of a stadium of people is his own stupidity
paddy no 11 wrote:Had my balls aqueezed in a maul one day - totally disgusting and way worse than any other foul act i was subject to - if they gave marler 6 months i wouldnt be bothered. It's sexual assault basically
As a young lad I can recall dating a few girls, maybe not even dating, and grabbing (fondling?) a few things which was sometimes appreciated and sometimes not, acts which weren't appreciated were not followed up on. But if a mild grope is a sexual assault that needs to be acted on you're going to spend a lot of time policing the process across society
This is nonsense, anyone groping someone should expect to face the law, if marler done it on camera in front of a stadium of people is his own stupidity
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
What Marler did is a bad joke gone wrong, and I draw a distinction with and actual sexual assault or even harassment, the regs as they've been interpreted do not allow for that distinction and I think they're the worse for it when we've seen multiple examples of violent play not even looked at
Digby wrote:
As a young lad I can recall dating a few girls, maybe not even dating, and grabbing (fondling?) a few things which was sometimes appreciated and sometimes not, acts which weren't appreciated were not followed up on. But if a mild grope is a sexual assault that needs to be acted on you're going to spend a lot of time policing the process across society
This is nonsense, anyone groping someone should expect to face the law, if marler done it on camera in front of a stadium of people is his own stupidity
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
What Marler did is a bad joke gone wrong, and I draw a distinction with and actual sexual assault or even harassment, the regs as they've been interpreted do not allow for that distinction and I think they're the worse for it when we've seen multiple examples of violent play not even looked at
Yes of course the people who sat down to come up with the laws of the game should have come up with a groping another mans genitials but in a non violent way criteria - get real
This stuff went out the window with vinny jones and gazza - deserves every minute of the 10 weeks
paddy no 11 wrote:
This is nonsense, anyone groping someone should expect to face the law, if marler done it on camera in front of a stadium of people is his own stupidity
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
What Marler did is a bad joke gone wrong, and I draw a distinction with and actual sexual assault or even harassment, the regs as they've been interpreted do not allow for that distinction and I think they're the worse for it when we've seen multiple examples of violent play not even looked at
Yes of course the people who sat down to come up with the laws of the game should have come up with a groping another mans genitials but in a non violent way criteria - get real
This stuff went out the window with vinny jones and gazza - deserves every minute of the 10 weeks
If touching a todger is a serious issue, and for all I know it is, they might want to ban the scrum, no way AWJ isn't touching penis and bollocks many times every game he plays in unless he has a seriously weird bind/grip. Further AWJ will be taking a grip that's far less comfortable than that which Marler employed.
That being the case rugby is already at the point of saying context isn't immaterial, before rugby moves on to say these are guidelines we must enact because we cannot consider context.
Digby wrote:
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
What Marler did is a bad joke gone wrong, and I draw a distinction with and actual sexual assault or even harassment, the regs as they've been interpreted do not allow for that distinction and I think they're the worse for it when we've seen multiple examples of violent play not even looked at
Yes of course the people who sat down to come up with the laws of the game should have come up with a groping another mans genitials but in a non violent way criteria - get real
This stuff went out the window with vinny jones and gazza - deserves every minute of the 10 weeks
If touching a todger is a serious issue, and for all I know it is, they might want to ban the scrum, no way AWJ isn't touching penis and bollocks many times every game he plays in unless he has a seriously weird bind/grip. Further AWJ will be taking a grip that's far less comfortable than that which Marler employed.
That being the case rugby is already at the point of saying context isn't immaterial, before rugby moves on to say these are guidelines we must enact because we cannot consider context.
I do believe Marler was just attempting (and failing) to be funny, and that should be viewed very differently from sexual assault, but he's a f*cking moron for doing it either way. I guess it just seems a bit skewed because so many instances of actual reckless violence, that could potentially do some long term damage, get very small punishments in comparison.
paddy no 11 wrote:
Yes of course the people who sat down to come up with the laws of the game should have come up with a groping another mans genitials but in a non violent way criteria - get real
This stuff went out the window with vinny jones and gazza - deserves every minute of the 10 weeks
If touching a todger is a serious issue, and for all I know it is, they might want to ban the scrum, no way AWJ isn't touching penis and bollocks many times every game he plays in unless he has a seriously weird bind/grip. Further AWJ will be taking a grip that's far less comfortable than that which Marler employed.
That being the case rugby is already at the point of saying context isn't immaterial, before rugby moves on to say these are guidelines we must enact because we cannot consider context.
You're being facetious in the first paragraph
What is the context of what marler was doing?
Well yes, it's a rugby message board, I'm not aiming for being the new Proust.
And as above somewhere what Marler did was a bad joke gone wrong, and I'd go with that rather than pantoesque.
Edit - Just to add though for all I'm slightly taking the piss I am right, AWJ will be gripping and compressing many penises and bollocks in every game he plays, as will every other lock
Digby wrote:
As a young lad I can recall dating a few girls, maybe not even dating, and grabbing (fondling?) a few things which was sometimes appreciated and sometimes not, acts which weren't appreciated were not followed up on. But if a mild grope is a sexual assault that needs to be acted on you're going to spend a lot of time policing the process across society
This is nonsense, anyone groping someone should expect to face the law, if marler done it on camera in front of a stadium of people is his own stupidity
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
KInda doesn't matter whether you are a standout or not, but this is sexual assault if no consent is given as I understand it.
Mikey Brown wrote:I do believe Marler was just attempting (and failing) to be funny, and that should be viewed very differently from sexual assault, but he's a f*cking moron for doing it either way. I guess it just seems a bit skewed because so many instances of actual reckless violence, that could potentially do some long term damage, get very small punishments in comparison.
This.
Can we change subject now before Diggers is contacted by Operation Yewtree.
paddy no 11 wrote:
This is nonsense, anyone groping someone should expect to face the law, if marler done it on camera in front of a stadium of people is his own stupidity
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
KInda doesn't matter whether you are a standout or not, but this is sexual assault if no consent is given as I understand it.
I'm agreeing it is, and yet I wonder just how many teen fumblings fall into such category, teenagers not being the only ones to figure it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I could also add I've been groped by many more women than I myself have groped, though that does come with the caveat it is different when there's no way they presented a threat to me, I can further add the sad caveat it's been a while since any woman felt suitably unrestrained to make any such attempt
Digby wrote:
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
KInda doesn't matter whether you are a standout or not, but this is sexual assault if no consent is given as I understand it.
I'm agreeing it is, and yet I wonder just how many teen fumblings fall into such category, teenagers not being the only ones to figure it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I could also add I've been groped by many more women than I myself have groped, though that does come with the caveat it is different when there's no way they presented a threat to me, I can further add the sad caveat it's been a while since any woman felt suitably unrestrained to make any such attempt
I worked as a barman during a male stripper event many years ago. A hall full of screaming women and me collecting glasses - it was interesting.
Like you though, I never felt the same level of threat that a female barmaid might have had in the same situation (although I know a lot of barmaids who had very robust senses of humour). It all comes down to individual perception.
Mikey Brown wrote:I do believe Marler was just attempting (and failing) to be funny, and that should be viewed very differently from sexual assault, but he's a f*cking moron for doing it either way. I guess it just seems a bit skewed because so many instances of actual reckless violence, that could potentially do some long term damage, get very small punishments in comparison.
This.
Can we change subject now before Diggers is contacted by Operation Yewtree.
Agreed. It looks outrageous because a full on punch to the face only gets 3 weeks.
Mikey Brown wrote:I do believe Marler was just attempting (and failing) to be funny, and that should be viewed very differently from sexual assault, but he's a f*cking moron for doing it either way. I guess it just seems a bit skewed because so many instances of actual reckless violence, that could potentially do some long term damage, get very small punishments in comparison.
This.
Can we change subject now before Diggers is contacted by Operation Yewtree.
Banquo wrote:
KInda doesn't matter whether you are a standout or not, but this is sexual assault if no consent is given as I understand it.
I'm agreeing it is, and yet I wonder just how many teen fumblings fall into such category, teenagers not being the only ones to figure it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I could also add I've been groped by many more women than I myself have groped, though that does come with the caveat it is different when there's no way they presented a threat to me, I can further add the sad caveat it's been a while since any woman felt suitably unrestrained to make any such attempt
I worked as a barman during a male stripper event many years ago. A hall full of screaming women and me collecting glasses - it was interesting.
Like you though, I never felt the same level of threat that a female barmaid might have had in the same situation (although I know a lot of barmaids who had very robust senses of humour). It all comes down to individual perception.
A very attractive barmaid somewhere around Green Park once delivered one of my favourite lines when a customer whose attention was not desired tried to follow up on why she wasn't interested and drew the response 'no, because I've already got a cunt in my pants'
Digby wrote:
I commend you for your restraint in never pushing your hand up the jumper of a girl growing up, or indeed anywhere else. Perhaps I'm a standout and no other male has ever erred in such fashion, but it seems unlikely to me.
KInda doesn't matter whether you are a standout or not, but this is sexual assault if no consent is given as I understand it.
I'm agreeing it is, and yet I wonder just how many teen fumblings fall into such category, teenagers not being the only ones to figure it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I could also add I've been groped by many more women than I myself have groped, though that does come with the caveat it is different when there's no way they presented a threat to me, I can further add the sad caveat it's been a while since any woman felt suitably unrestrained to make any such attempt
I'd think a lot do, and I know a good number are now 'pursued'. The individuals only become aware of the potentially life changing consequences after the event/complaint, in general.
Banquo wrote:
KInda doesn't matter whether you are a standout or not, but this is sexual assault if no consent is given as I understand it.
I'm agreeing it is, and yet I wonder just how many teen fumblings fall into such category, teenagers not being the only ones to figure it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. I could also add I've been groped by many more women than I myself have groped, though that does come with the caveat it is different when there's no way they presented a threat to me, I can further add the sad caveat it's been a while since any woman felt suitably unrestrained to make any such attempt
I'd think a lot do, and I know a good number are now 'pursued'. The individuals only become aware of the potentially life changing consequences after the event/complaint, in general.
I'm not I suspect talking about incidents about which the other participants would take much issue with. Indeed some of the worst examples I can think of saw me end in in long term relationships, one at school and one at uni
