Exeter v Gloucester Weds 5.30

[fivepointer]

Exeter Chiefs: Hogg; Nowell, Slade, Hendrickson, Whitten; Simmonds (capt), Maunder; Moon, Cowan-Dickie, Williams, Gray, Hill, Ewers, Vermeulen, Simmonds.

Replacements: Yeandle, Hepburn, Francis, Skinner, Kirsten, Hidalgo-Clyne, Steenson, Devoto.

Gloucester: Hudson; Sharples, Trinder, Seabrook, Banahan; Twelvetrees (capt), Chapman; Fourie, Walker, Ford-Robinson, Beckett, Drake, Gray, Reid, Ackermann.

Replacements: Gleave, Seville, Knight, Jordan, Crane, Simpson, Barton, Morgan.

[Mikey Brown]

They going to have any centres left for the weekend?

[Puja]

Interesting to see Seabrook at 12 instead of Banahan. Is he experienced there in youth rugby?

Puja

[Gloskarlos]

This could be a landslide. No real Bench and a pack Exeter will take full advantage of.

Yes Seabrook has played 12 before, more frequently 13. He’s become a little more powerful of late, will be interested to see how he goes.

[Mikey Brown]

Just catching up on this and Simmonds's pass to Ewers for Whitten's try was beautiful.

He was in a ton of space and they were well on the front foot, but the way he manages to communicate with Ewers to run that outside arc and puts the ball right there instead, it's just the kind of innate skill and calmness I can never quite see in Farrell. I know this board doesn't need any more OT Farrell-bashing but I'm not sure what term you'd use for it, and how it's different to being able to do the very occasional belted flat pass to Jonny May in the 15 metre channel.

Anyway, Ewers is looking a bit more like the player that I think Eddie was interested in a few years back.

[Banquo]

Simmonds is strangely unrated imo.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah it feels that way. Beyond him sometimes missing 'the wrong kind' of tackles and us not having seen him behind a weak pack or a different system, I'm not sure what he's missing particularly.

Is he perceived by people as a boring, kicking 10? Perhaps by the same people who think Exeter are a boring 10-man team?

[Scrumhead]

Eddie hasn’t really treated either Simmonds brother too fairly. I’d imagine both would have picked up a good number of caps under another coaching regime.

[Raggs]

Eddie hasn’t really treated either Simmonds brother too fairly. I’d imagine both would have picked up a good number of caps under another coaching regime.

Simmonds snr didn't impress in his international debut though, I know it can take a while, but I don't see him as exceptional. Very good prem player though.

His brother is an odd one, and in a tough position. Clearly a talented player, maybe let down a bit by Exeter aren't viewed as an attacking team? Though I can't imagine that puts Eddie off. He has been apprentice right? And with Ford and Farrell any other 10 needs to be truly exceptional to force themselves into the reckoning.

[Scrumhead]

AFAIK, Joe Simmonds has never had any interest. I don’t remember him ever being called up as an apprentice, but I might have missed it. He’s a better attacking 10 than he gets credit for. He does have a decent running game, he just doesn’t show it as often as he ought to.

Simmonds senior did OK IMO. Several players have had far worse starts to a test career and managed to stay in the picture. Brad Shields springs to mind for one. If he (Shields) hadn’t been injured he was right in the mix for the RWC despite being objectively crap in every England experience.

[Puja]

AFAIK, Joe Simmonds has never had any interest. I don’t remember him ever being called up as an apprentice, but I might have missed it. He’s a better attacking 10 than he gets credit for. He does have a decent running game, he just doesn’t show it as often as he ought to.

Simmonds senior did OK IMO. Several players have had far worse starts to a test career and managed to stay in the picture. Brad Shields springs to mind for one. If he (Shields) hadn’t been injured he was right in the mix for the RWC despite being objectively crap in every England experience.

In fairness, Shields was in the first RWC training squad and then was actively dropped. So he was finally dumped by Eddie.

Puja

[twitchy]

I think sam is just unfortunate because of the competition currently. He would easily have made the squad during eddie's early years. I don't think there is a real rush to decide which of the young 10's is supposedly next in line. Ford and faz will be around for ages.

It's very promising though each of them could develop into a slightly different style of 10.

[Scrumhead]

AFAIK, Joe Simmonds has never had any interest. I don’t remember him ever being called up as an apprentice, but I might have missed it. He’s a better attacking 10 than he gets credit for. He does have a decent running game, he just doesn’t show it as often as he ought to.

Simmonds senior did OK IMO. Several players have had far worse starts to a test career and managed to stay in the picture. Brad Shields springs to mind for one. If he (Shields) hadn’t been injured he was right in the mix for the RWC despite being objectively crap in every England experience.

In fairness, Shields was in the first RWC training squad and then was actively dropped. So he was finally dumped by Eddie.

Puja

I’m pretty sure he had to withdraw from the training squad through injury didn’t he?

[Banquo]

AFAIK, Joe Simmonds has never had any interest. I don’t remember him ever being called up as an apprentice, but I might have missed it. He’s a better attacking 10 than he gets credit for. He does have a decent running game, he just doesn’t show it as often as he ought to.

Simmonds senior did OK IMO. Several players have had far worse starts to a test career and managed to stay in the picture. Brad Shields springs to mind for one. If he (Shields) hadn’t been injured he was right in the mix for the RWC despite being objectively crap in every England experience.

Joe Simmonds is pretty quick, ace goal kicker , top passer- and makes good decisions-not much not to like really.

Sam had a fair run, but didn’t really look the part as an 8 in the system we were playing. He looked underpowered tbh. Of course it’s a few years on and he has definitely improved.

[Banquo]

I think sam is just unfortunate because of the competition currently. He would easily have made the squad during eddie's early years. I don't think there is a real rush to decide which of the young 10's is supposedly next in line. Ford and faz will be around for ages.

It's very promising though each of them could develop into a slightly different style of 10.

Sam or Joe? Sam did make Eddies squad in 2017.

[fivepointer]

Odd that Sam has been latterly ignored by England, who would rather play Curry or Earl at 8, neither of whom possesses greater speed or line breaking ability.
He had a good case to be recalled for the 6N's and his current form is very impressive. He'll be overlooked.
Joe is just a very good player. maybe lacks the eye catching moments that others have but he's ultra consistent.

[Banquo]

Odd that Sam has been latterly ignored by England, who would rather play Curry or Earl at 8, neither of whom possesses greater speed or line breaking ability.
He had a good case to be recalled for the 6N's and his current form is very impressive. He'll be overlooked.
Joe is just a very good player. maybe lacks the eye catching moments that others have but he's ultra consistent.

Like other back rowers like Armand, Eddies had a look in training and in games and has decided against for now at least.

[twitchy]

I think sam is just unfortunate because of the competition currently. He would easily have made the squad during eddie's early years. I don't think there is a real rush to decide which of the young 10's is supposedly next in line. Ford and faz will be around for ages.

It's very promising though each of them could develop into a slightly different style of 10.

Sam or Joe? Sam did make Eddies squad in 2017.

I know, I'm just saying in general we have a bumper crop of back rows.

Odd that Sam has been latterly ignored by England, who would rather play Curry or Earl at 8, neither of whom possesses greater speed or line breaking ability.
He had a good case to be recalled for the 6N's and his current form is very impressive. He'll be overlooked.
Joe is just a very good player. maybe lacks the eye catching moments that others have but he's ultra consistent.

I'm an exe fan and I would pick curry over simmonds for england every time. I also think simmonds lost a bit of pace after that injury. His off the ball stuff isn't close to curry and that is what eddie really values.

[Puja]

Odd that Sam has been latterly ignored by England, who would rather play Curry or Earl at 8, neither of whom possesses greater speed or line breaking ability.
He had a good case to be recalled for the 6N's and his current form is very impressive. He'll be overlooked.
Joe is just a very good player. maybe lacks the eye catching moments that others have but he's ultra consistent.

I'm an exe fan and I would pick curry over simmonds for england every time. I also think simmonds lost a bit of pace after that injury. His off the ball stuff isn't close to curry and that is what eddie really values.

Mind, the question in the 6N wasn't so much Curry or Simmonds, but Curry staying in position *and* Simmonds, or Curry moving out of position to try Lawes at 6 for the thousandth time with the inane hope that *this* time, it'll work.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

Odd that Sam has been latterly ignored by England, who would rather play Curry or Earl at 8, neither of whom possesses greater speed or line breaking ability.
He had a good case to be recalled for the 6N's and his current form is very impressive. He'll be overlooked.
Joe is just a very good player. maybe lacks the eye catching moments that others have but he's ultra consistent.

Have you ever seen Ben Earl play? If you have, I find that a strange comment as I’d say he’s very similar to Simmonds in terms of pace and line breaking ability but with more involvement in the dirty work Eddie likes to see.

Curry’s not there for that. He’s there as a classic flanker. Tackle, jackal, ruck, link etc. The fact he was wearing 8 isn’t that significant.

[Raggs]

Curry isn't a bad carrier either, runs with good determination, gets just about on the front foot most the time. Given we have Mako, Genge, LCD, Sinkler, Manu?, Coka? Launch? as big carry options, I don't think we necessarily require it from our backrow at the moment. Curry, Underhill, Willis, Wilson, Lawes etc all offer solid carrying options, even if they aren't the heavy bashers above.

[fivepointer]

Odd that Sam has been latterly ignored by England, who would rather play Curry or Earl at 8, neither of whom possesses greater speed or line breaking ability.
He had a good case to be recalled for the 6N's and his current form is very impressive. He'll be overlooked.
Joe is just a very good player. maybe lacks the eye catching moments that others have but he's ultra consistent.

Have you ever seen Ben Earl play? If you have, I find that a strange comment as I’d say he’s very similar to Simmonds in terms of pace and line breaking ability but with more involvement in the dirty work Eddie likes to see.

Curry’s not there for that. He’s there as a classic flanker. Tackle, jackal, ruck, link etc. The fact he was wearing 8 isn’t that significant.

Earl's very good (i've seen plenty of him) but i dont think he has any more speed than Simmonds, or can make ground through traffic or out wide any better. Curry likewise.
The point i was trying to make - that Puja picked up on - wasnt that i was saying that Simmonds was a better player, but if we didnt want a like for like replacement for Billy, then moving Curry to 8 when we had a form player with experience under his belt seemed just a touch odd. I would have left Curry at 7 and brought in a recognised no 8, a view which was largely shared on this board. Numbers on shirts isnt that important, a point i've often stressed, but balance is.
I appreciate there are only so many places to go round. Jones cannot pick everyone and this will result in good players being left out. Simmonds is one of them.

[Banquo]

Odd that Sam has been latterly ignored by England, who would rather play Curry or Earl at 8, neither of whom possesses greater speed or line breaking ability.
He had a good case to be recalled for the 6N's and his current form is very impressive. He'll be overlooked.
Joe is just a very good player. maybe lacks the eye catching moments that others have but he's ultra consistent.

Have you ever seen Ben Earl play? If you have, I find that a strange comment as I’d say he’s very similar to Simmonds in terms of pace and line breaking ability but with more involvement in the dirty work Eddie likes to see.

Curry’s not there for that. He’s there as a classic flanker. Tackle, jackal, ruck, link etc. The fact he was wearing 8 isn’t that significant.

You are forgetting jngf’s rule of six, seven and eight

[Banquo]

Curry isn't a bad carrier either, runs with good determination, gets just about on the front foot most the time. Given we have Mako, Genge, LCD, Sinkler, Manu?, Coka? Launch? as big carry options, I don't think we necessarily require it from our backrow at the moment. Curry, Underhill, Willis, Wilson, Lawes etc all offer solid carrying options, even if they aren't the heavy bashers above.

Curry hits smart angles and uses good footwork to get into space. Maro could also improve as a heavy carrier, though giving summat more to do seems harsh!