Government support for the game

[Banquo]

Anybody know what the debenture situation is at Twickenham? I read somewhere that 4000 means no tickets for non-debenture holders but is that right? Also, does a DH just have a right to a seat but still has to pay the match day price?

Various reports claim that a lot of football grounds will have overheads that more than cancel out the income from 4000. Therefore fans admitted at this level costs more than not admitting any. Does that apply for rugby? It sounds as if the clubs with really big grounds (rugby/football) will end up paying extra for the atmosphere created. I don't know what to believe.

Well given most dont make an operating profit from full grounds...

Understood, but are clubs now having to pay more for a bit of atmosphere rather than having empty grounds? Maybe they can jack up the TV payment as a result?

Good luck with that.

[Digby]

It actually seems more barking to me that we haven't allowed crowds into stadia before this. Allowing 20k into an 80k Twickenham with social distancing seems a hell of a lot more safe than ramming people into pubs to save that section of the economy.

Puja

How are you getting the 20k to and fro' HQ? Because even if you're going for the 7s and it's a small crowd around the 20k the train stations and carriages are still rammed. And the roads around the ground, the gates and the toilets and so on are all still very busy.

Does everyone have to drive, and arrive/depart at staged times?

You can't tell me that the RFU wouldn't've been able to organise something if it meant having paying spectators. When there's that significant an amount of money on the line, it could've been organised with staged arrival and departure times etc.

On a smaller scale, getting a quarter of a stadium's capacity (or 4k, whichever was lower) in for club rugby would've been more than doable. It's not ideal, perhaps, but I don't get why we were encouraged to "Eat out to help out" and have pubs open and rammed because otherwise the hospitality sector would be screwed, but then stitch up sports. One seems lower risk than the other.

Puja

Are you really setting the challenge of claiming the RFU couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery?

That said I don't know how much money they take at Twickers for selling say 20k tickets, especially if they have to try and distance people inside. They might not be that excited until the numbers went over 50-60k in ticket sales

[Digby]

Anybody know what the debenture situation is at Twickenham? I read somewhere that 4000 means no tickets for non-debenture holders but is that right? Also, does a DH just have a right to a seat but still has to pay the match day price?

Yes, the debenture basically gives you a first refusal on tickets so you still have to pay for tickets. In theory you get your debenture money back so that's fair enough, although your outlay on debentures is more like to be returned to your estate.

[Stom]

It actually seems more barking to me that we haven't allowed crowds into stadia before this. Allowing 20k into an 80k Twickenham with social distancing seems a hell of a lot more safe than ramming people into pubs to save that section of the economy.

Puja

How are you getting the 20k to and fro' HQ? Because even if you're going for the 7s and it's a small crowd around the 20k the train stations and carriages are still rammed. And the roads around the ground, the gates and the toilets and so on are all still very busy.

Does everyone have to drive, and arrive/depart at staged times?

You can't tell me that the RFU wouldn't've been able to organise something if it meant having paying spectators. When there's that significant an amount of money on the line, it could've been organised with staged arrival and departure times etc.

On a smaller scale, getting a quarter of a stadium's capacity (or 4k, whichever was lower) in for club rugby would've been more than doable. It's not ideal, perhaps, but I don't get why we were encouraged to "Eat out to help out" and have pubs open and rammed because otherwise the hospitality sector would be screwed, but then stitch up sports. One seems lower risk than the other.

Puja

20k through Twickenham and Whitton stations is still a lot. 4K and 20k are a long way away from each other. Kick off is easy but at the end how do you stagger without creating bottlenecks somewhere?

I just don’t think it’s possible, really.

[Digby]

How are you getting the 20k to and fro' HQ? Because even if you're going for the 7s and it's a small crowd around the 20k the train stations and carriages are still rammed. And the roads around the ground, the gates and the toilets and so on are all still very busy.

Does everyone have to drive, and arrive/depart at staged times?

You can't tell me that the RFU wouldn't've been able to organise something if it meant having paying spectators. When there's that significant an amount of money on the line, it could've been organised with staged arrival and departure times etc.

On a smaller scale, getting a quarter of a stadium's capacity (or 4k, whichever was lower) in for club rugby would've been more than doable. It's not ideal, perhaps, but I don't get why we were encouraged to "Eat out to help out" and have pubs open and rammed because otherwise the hospitality sector would be screwed, but then stitch up sports. One seems lower risk than the other.

Puja

20k through Twickenham and Whitton stations is still a lot. 4K and 20k are a long way away from each other. Kick off is easy but at the end how do you stagger without creating bottlenecks somewhere?

I just don’t think it’s possible, really.

Or at least difficult to realise in a manner which delivers serious profit. And that before London is nailed on to be in a high rated tier, as we might all expect are most large cities

[Puja]

How are you getting the 20k to and fro' HQ? Because even if you're going for the 7s and it's a small crowd around the 20k the train stations and carriages are still rammed. And the roads around the ground, the gates and the toilets and so on are all still very busy.

Does everyone have to drive, and arrive/depart at staged times?

You can't tell me that the RFU wouldn't've been able to organise something if it meant having paying spectators. When there's that significant an amount of money on the line, it could've been organised with staged arrival and departure times etc.

On a smaller scale, getting a quarter of a stadium's capacity (or 4k, whichever was lower) in for club rugby would've been more than doable. It's not ideal, perhaps, but I don't get why we were encouraged to "Eat out to help out" and have pubs open and rammed because otherwise the hospitality sector would be screwed, but then stitch up sports. One seems lower risk than the other.

Puja

Are you really setting the challenge of claiming the RFU couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery?

That said I don't know how much money they take at Twickers for selling say 20k tickets, especially if they have to try and distance people inside. They might not be that excited until the numbers went over 50-60k in ticket sales

Good point; well made.

I think they definitely would be interested in getting 20k in, as they were planning that for the AIs before the government changed their minds. If we're talking reduced numbers, they could easily sell tickets for £100, so with 20k, that's £2m turnover. Even with the additional costs required, that's not a small sum of money.

Puja

[Timbo]

So, the £88m in loans that’s been announced, is that in addition to this support package? The guts of £150m in financial aid for the Prem in total?

[Doorzetbornandbred]

So, the £88m in loans that’s been announced, is that in addition to this support package? The guts of £150m in financial aid for the Prem in total?

Be interesting to see how this affects squad sizes and salaries when clubs factor in repaying the loans.