Austin Healey Article on Cipriani

[padprop]

“He has thrown some amazing passes, he’s box office with an immense highlights reel, but if you were to play his 80-minute reel you would see a lot more negative than positive. You cannot play international rugby when your goal-kicking percentage starts with a seven – at best – either.“

Unless you are Owen Farrell of course (75%), where you will get lauded as the best goal kicker in the world.

[Raggs]

Just going through the stats, Farrell hasn't had an 80%+ kicking record since 2015.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Oh joy, another thread about Owen Farrell........

[twitchy]

Early cips was one of the most exciting young players I think I have ever seen. Especially before he lost his pace.

[Mikey Brown]

The phrase box office really makes me cringe. Though Healey has that effect when he talks about virtually anything, to be fair.

I’m guessing he’s been paid good money to write this article announcing that Cipriani is talented but can be flakey. What a scoop.

EP I get your frustration with the Farrell talk, unfortunately this is one of the places you’re going to see everyone’s frustration with the vast amount of nonsense punditry around him. Healey is probably the blindest of the blind when it comes to hyping up Owen Farrell and ignoring any mistakes, so it’s hard not to wonder what he’d say if confronted with those stats.

It does sound like quite a surface-level assessment of a Cipriani though (from that snippet anyway) as if there weren’t a ton of subtler contributions in attack throughout a game than just the killer passes. Maybe there’s more detail in the article, I certainly won’t be looking for it.

[Digby]

Healy making a strong case against his own selection as a 10, when Healey quite liked playing as a 10.

[Mr Mwenda]

My frustration is that it Farrell gets brought up even if it's lazy journalism about someone else. It's so bloody dull.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Early cips was one of the most exciting young players I think I have ever seen. Especially before he lost his pace.

And his head to be fair. And jeez wasn't he just something special. The game against Leinster where they targeted him for treatment throughout the game and he just went about his business and then scored the final try in a magnificent two-fingered salute to Leinster. 2007 I think. He was superb. Not perfect, but when he made any mistakes and got a shit tonne of crap from Leinster players he kept his head, went away and focussed on the next task. When he scored it was just beautiful, as Leinster went a step too far that day, but still couldn't rattle him.

That Cipriani was magic.

Then the ankle.

Then being rushed back.

The rest is sadly confined to that what could've been.

EDIT: he scored the third try which effectively put the game to bed. Reddan then scored his second for Wasps.

[Raggs]

This is part of the article "In truth, Danny never really hit the heights with England because he was never good enough. He was nowhere near as good as George Ford or Owen Farrell"

[Epaminondas Pules]

Fin Smith is the closest I've got to be Cipriani levels of excited about a 10 since George Ford. Ford, for all the skill, was more pragmatic than early CIps. Cips was just another level altogether at schools and age grade. To say he stood out would be doing a major disservice to just how far ahead of everyone else on the pitch he was. Smith, I'd say, is somewhere between the two. Really hope he gets a chance with Worcester.

[Raggs]

For me it was actually when Danny was doing those moments of magic that he got so much praise for, that he wasn't playing well. Those were the parts that also went wrong. His phase to phase play, picking out runners with the least defensive pressure in front of them, was so nice to watch. His team would consistently end up on the front foot because he picked out the correct option with the "day to day" parts of the game.

[Mr Mwenda]

Ok, fair enough. I avoid sports journalism since it is nearly all terrible. Nature of writing about nothing really.

[Digby]

The part about you don't get a chance with England because you're not good enough for England was a big part of the commentary of the Leicester changing room when Austin was there. Some of them found it helpful no doubt in delivering a hard nosed culture, but a lot of it was driven by Back who sang a very different tune when he wasn't being picked by England, and I always wondered what Corry or Lloyd thought about the comment.

I'm in the same place with Cips still, it's not all on England it didn't go well, but we've played some miserably bad rugby for most of the last two decades and we've gotten almost noting in that period out of the most talented English player I've seen. Which even if not a systemic failing is at minimum a cruel joke.

[fivepointer]

The part about you don't get a chance with England because you're not good enough for England was a big part of the commentary of the Leicester changing room when Austin was there. Some of them found it helpful no doubt in delivering a hard nosed culture, but a lot of it was driven by Back who sang a very different tune when he wasn't being picked by England, and I always wondered what Corry or Lloyd thought about the comment.

I'm in the same place with Cips still, it's not all on England it didn't go well, but we've played some miserably bad rugby for most of the last two decades and we've gotten almost noting in that period out of the most talented English player I've seen. Which even if not a systemic failing is at minimum a cruel joke.

agree completely with this. Terrible waste of a major talent.

[Danno]

I largely agree but at the same time, the guy seemed hellbent on shooting himself in the foot at every turn. Nicking booze from behind a bar, the drink driving incident etc.

[Raggs]

I largely agree but at the same time, the guy seemed hellbent on shooting himself in the foot at every turn. Nicking booze from behind a bar, the drink driving incident etc.

I wonder if he had similar issues to Marler. Basically self sabotage due to fear of the added pressure of internationals, being away from friends/family etc.

[Danno]

I largely agree but at the same time, the guy seemed hellbent on shooting himself in the foot at every turn. Nicking booze from behind a bar, the drink driving incident etc.

I wonder if he had similar issues to Marler. Basically self sabotage due to fear of the added pressure of internationals, being away from friends/family etc.

It wouldn't surprise me. He managed to piss off every national head coach since he was eligible to be picked

[Digby]

Not sure what he's done to piss off Eddie and has merely not been what he wanted as a starter or to have in the squad as a bench option.

Also Burt's policy of 'no cunts' delivered some utterly shite results and bar a few games under Robinson just about the worst rugby. The 'no cunts' policy is in fairness one you'd get confirmed by just about every national coach/camp going, but if you want to not pick talent you need to deliver or be mocked for your abject failings

[Danno]

Oh absolutely not defending Burt on that front. The point I'm making is that Cips knew what the score was, and still managed to pick up a conviction mere months before the 2015 WC, which would give most head coaches pause for thought when they were filling out the teamsheet

[Raggs]

If the head coach has said no dicks then you can't be upset if you get kicked out for acting a right dick.

[Puja]

Not sure what he's done to piss off Eddie and has merely not been what he wanted as a starter or to have in the squad as a bench option.

Also Burt's policy of 'no cunts' delivered some utterly shite results and bar a few games under Robinson just about the worst rugby. The 'no cunts' policy is in fairness one you'd get confirmed by just about every national coach/camp going, but if you want to not pick talent you need to deliver or be mocked for your abject failings

He did get a 61% winning ratio mind, which is the highest winning ratio since SCW and average tries-per-game of 2.5. I think there is a tendency to retcon Burt as being wall-to-wall disaster and stodge because the ending was so appalling.

Puja

[Digby]

Not sure what he's done to piss off Eddie and has merely not been what he wanted as a starter or to have in the squad as a bench option.

Also Burt's policy of 'no cunts' delivered some utterly shite results and bar a few games under Robinson just about the worst rugby. The 'no cunts' policy is in fairness one you'd get confirmed by just about every national coach/camp going, but if you want to not pick talent you need to deliver or be mocked for your abject failings

He did get a 61% winning ratio mind, which is the highest winning ratio since SCW and average tries-per-game of 2.5. I think there is a tendency to retcon Burt as being wall-to-wall disaster and stodge because the ending was so appalling.

Puja

I think there's a tendency to give Burt too much credit, which isn't to say he should never be considered again and he's very obviously on record saying he would do things differently. But right from his first lineup Burt started off with a selection that was just daft and frankly designed not to work. The results were just about good enough for him to survive as long as he did but I don't recall being impressed much along the way, certainly nothing to think yep, that looks like international standard quality management