World U20s

[Lizard]

This is on at terrible times for NZ viewing.

Anyway, the Baby Blacks gave Georgia more than the expected dust-up, handing out a proper 55-0 thrashing. Ireland and Wales should provide sterner opposition.

The Joeys got beaten by Scotland. Ha ha ha.

The MiniBoks went one better than their senior counterparts by putting Japan to the sword. They should be annoyed at conceding 19 points though, that could be enough for Arg or France to pinch a match.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

This is on at terrible times for NZ viewing.

Anyway, the Baby Blacks gave Georgia more than the expected dust-up, handing out a proper 55-0 thrashing. Ireland and Wales should provide sterner opposition.

The Joeys got beaten by Scotland. Ha ha ha.

The MiniBoks went one better than their senior counterparts by putting Japan to the sword. They should be annoyed at conceding 19 points though, that could be enough for Arg or France to pinch a match.

Japan had the half time lead, only to get utterly smashed in the second half.

[J Dory]

Good time to watch it here, right in the middle of the work day and ... world rugby website is not blocked in Canada, happy days.

[morepork]

Good time to watch it here, right in the middle of the work day and ... world rugby website is not blocked in Canada, happy days.

Link me beatch.

[J Dory]

http://www.worldrugby.org/u20/live-blog/124

Live feeds show up when the game is on.

[Len]

U20s bumders. Looks like this years lot are duds too.

[Mellsblue]

I'd agree. Your pack - 3 & 7 ran around acting the big men whilst simultaneously wholly forgetting the basics of their role - and 9-10-12 were poor. 15 is bloody good, shouldn't kick though. Ever.

[morepork]

I'd agree. Your pack - 3 & 7 ran around acting the big men whilst simultaneously wholly forgetting the basics of their role - and 9-10-12 were poor. 15 is bloody good, shouldn't kick though. Ever.

They turned into chippy little pricks when it was put up them, for sure. Stern word over weetbix tomorrow morning I think.

I didn't realize Barrett the younger was in this team. Jeez they look alike. Same haircut and all. Just more zits on the younger one.

[Mellsblue]

I'd agree. Your pack - 3 & 7 ran around acting the big men whilst simultaneously wholly forgetting the basics of their role - and 9-10-12 were poor. 15 is bloody good, shouldn't kick though. Ever.

They turned into chippy little pricks when it was put up them, for sure. Stern word over weetbix tomorrow morning I think.

I didn't realize Barrett the younger was in this team. Jeez they look alike. Same haircut and all. Just more zits on the younger one.

Looks like its a replay of today's match for the 5th place semifinal, whatever the **** that is.

[Len]

I'd agree. Your pack - 3 & 7 ran around acting the big men whilst simultaneously wholly forgetting the basics of their role - and 9-10-12 were poor. 15 is bloody good, shouldn't kick though. Ever.

If they're not putting Wales away safely they win't win the comp.

[Mellsblue]

I'd agree. Your pack - 3 & 7 ran around acting the big men whilst simultaneously wholly forgetting the basics of their role - and 9-10-12 were poor. 15 is bloody good, shouldn't kick though. Ever.

If they're not putting Wales away safely they win't win the comp.

You can't win. You're in the 5th place semifinal. Proper semis are Eng v SA and Arg v Ire.

[Len]

I'd agree. Your pack - 3 & 7 ran around acting the big men whilst simultaneously wholly forgetting the basics of their role - and 9-10-12 were poor. 15 is bloody good, shouldn't kick though. Ever.

If they're not putting Wales away safely they win't win the comp.

You can't win. You're in the 5th place semifinal. Proper semis are Eng v SA and Arg v Ire.

Christ. Thats disappointing. Not surprising though. Our U20s used to be the best year in year out. The rest have caught up.

[Epaminondas Pules]

If they're not putting Wales away safely they win't win the comp.

You can't win. You're in the 5th place semifinal. Proper semis are Eng v SA and Arg v Ire.

Christ. Thats disappointing. Not surprising though. Our U20s used to be the best year in year out. The rest have caught up.

First time in the tournaments history that you've not made the semis. Wales and Ireland are no mugs by any stretch. You should have lost today, well until he Welsh did that classic Welsh thing of kicking possession away to an NZ team when all the needed was to keep hold and see it out. It looks like it's just a bad year for you guys, but the world is catching. We've been up with you for a while, others are getting there now.

[zer0]

It's age grade rugby. You have good years and bad years.

EDIT: Mexted on the matter...

"It's disappointing," Mexted said of New Zealand's performance at the World Rugby U20 Championship, "but I'm not worried. If they didn't make the semifinals three years in a row, then I'd be worried. We've been specialising in [skills] for 10 years now at IRANZ, and it's the way we've always done things in New Zealand. I think it's the right way to do things. The key thing here is, we have a lot of players and we do need to do the best job we can of developing our best young talent. I believe we're doing that."

"In the northern hemisphere they have a strong emphasis on fitness and conditioning. That's very different from what we do here."

...

"The huge focus on fitness and conditioning is to the detriment of their skills," Mexted said. "We have a great emphasis on skills coaching. I'm not just talking about catching and passing a ball, but about body position in a ruck... body position in a tackle. Normally we go and beat these guys by playing good rugby. Sometimes they can beat us because of the physicality. But I think there is no doubting the results of how we do things. We've pulled away from the UK teams in recent years."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/inte ... ray-mexted

[Mellsblue]

It's age grade rugby. You have good years and bad years.

EDIT: Mexted on the matter...

"It's disappointing," Mexted said of New Zealand's performance at the World Rugby U20 Championship, "but I'm not worried. If they didn't make the semifinals three years in a row, then I'd be worried. We've been specialising in [skills] for 10 years now at IRANZ, and it's the way we've always done things in New Zealand. I think it's the right way to do things. The key thing here is, we have a lot of players and we do need to do the best job we can of developing our best young talent. I believe we're doing that."

"In the northern hemisphere they have a strong emphasis on fitness and conditioning. That's very different from what we do here."

...

"The huge focus on fitness and conditioning is to the detriment of their skills," Mexted said. "We have a great emphasis on skills coaching. I'm not just talking about catching and passing a ball, but about body position in a ruck... body position in a tackle. Normally we go and beat these guys by playing good rugby. Sometimes they can beat us because of the physicality. But I think there is no doubting the results of how we do things. We've pulled away from the UK teams in recent years."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/inte ... ray-mexted

That's not what I saw yesterday. Your basics were terrible. Though, to be honest, not that much worse than Wales, Eng and Oz - it was fairly low quality over both matches that I saw.
The domination was bound to end at some point. A couple of poor years isn't that much of a worry as long they produce 2/3 international quality and it is only a couple of years. If your 15 sorts out his kicking I wouldn't be suprised to see him capped. He beat at least 2 men every time he ran the ball back.

[Epaminondas Pules]

It's age grade rugby. You have good years and bad years.

EDIT: Mexted on the matter...

"It's disappointing," Mexted said of New Zealand's performance at the World Rugby U20 Championship, "but I'm not worried. If they didn't make the semifinals three years in a row, then I'd be worried. We've been specialising in [skills] for 10 years now at IRANZ, and it's the way we've always done things in New Zealand. I think it's the right way to do things. The key thing here is, we have a lot of players and we do need to do the best job we can of developing our best young talent. I believe we're doing that."

"In the northern hemisphere they have a strong emphasis on fitness and conditioning. That's very different from what we do here."

...

"The huge focus on fitness and conditioning is to the detriment of their skills," Mexted said. "We have a great emphasis on skills coaching. I'm not just talking about catching and passing a ball, but about body position in a ruck... body position in a tackle. Normally we go and beat these guys by playing good rugby. Sometimes they can beat us because of the physicality. But I think there is no doubting the results of how we do things. We've pulled away from the UK teams in recent years."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/inte ... ray-mexted

Awesome, the old classic size argument. Ireland, Wales and England moved on from that a while ago, with the emphasis also being on skills.

[Len]

You can't win. You're in the 5th place semifinal. Proper semis are Eng v SA and Arg v Ire.

Christ. Thats disappointing. Not surprising though. Our U20s used to be the best year in year out. The rest have caught up.

First time in the tournaments history that you've not made the semis. Wales and Ireland are no mugs by any stretch. You should have lost today, well until he Welsh did that classic Welsh thing of kicking possession away to an NZ team when all the needed was to keep hold and see it out. It looks like it's just a bad year for you guys, but the world is catching. We've been up with you for a while, others are getting there now.

True. It was around 2011(?) Or maybe 2010 when England first pushed us close. Since then we've scraped here and there. Hopefully the NZRU start to put more effort into our U20s programme so we can be the ones to beat again.

[Mellsblue]

It's age grade rugby. You have good years and bad years.

EDIT: Mexted on the matter...

"It's disappointing," Mexted said of New Zealand's performance at the World Rugby U20 Championship, "but I'm not worried. If they didn't make the semifinals three years in a row, then I'd be worried. We've been specialising in [skills] for 10 years now at IRANZ, and it's the way we've always done things in New Zealand. I think it's the right way to do things. The key thing here is, we have a lot of players and we do need to do the best job we can of developing our best young talent. I believe we're doing that."

"In the northern hemisphere they have a strong emphasis on fitness and conditioning. That's very different from what we do here."

...

"The huge focus on fitness and conditioning is to the detriment of their skills," Mexted said. "We have a great emphasis on skills coaching. I'm not just talking about catching and passing a ball, but about body position in a ruck... body position in a tackle. Normally we go and beat these guys by playing good rugby. Sometimes they can beat us because of the physicality. But I think there is no doubting the results of how we do things. We've pulled away from the UK teams in recent years."

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/inte ... ray-mexted

Awesome, the old classic size argument. Ireland, Wales and England moved on from that a while ago, with the emphasis also being on skills.

Eng v Oz yesterday being exhibit A. Oz were massive compared to Eng.

[Which Tyler]

Going back a few years I seem to remember the Welsh making the same argument whilst losing to England - Welsh rugby being all about skills, and English being all about picking the bigger guy; until someone looked at the stats and realised that every single Welsh player on the pitch was taller than his English counterpart, and the Welsh pack had a significant weight advantage.

It's a tired old argument that's a good 6 years out of date.

Out of interest; Average size of player from the squad (would be much nicer if split forwards / backs, but hey, I don't know any of the squads well enough to do that)
England 187cm; 98kg
Australia: 187.1cm; 103.1kg

New Zealand: 186.5cm; 101.4kg
Wales: 184.3cm; 102.3kg

[Epaminondas Pules]

Christ. Thats disappointing. Not surprising though. Our U20s used to be the best year in year out. The rest have caught up.

First time in the tournaments history that you've not made the semis. Wales and Ireland are no mugs by any stretch. You should have lost today, well until he Welsh did that classic Welsh thing of kicking possession away to an NZ team when all the needed was to keep hold and see it out. It looks like it's just a bad year for you guys, but the world is catching. We've been up with you for a while, others are getting there now.

True. It was around 2011(?) Or maybe 2010 when England first pushed us close. Since then we've scraped here and there. Hopefully the NZRU start to put more effort into our U20s programme so we can be the ones to beat again.

2011, it's was our golden generation which brought through the likes of Ford, Farrell, Daly, Joseph, Launchbury etc... Your 2011 team included Barrett, Retalick, Cane, Perenara etc.

Since then we've arguably been top dogs.

[zer0]

Scott Robertson on this years tournament:

"It's a really big learning experience for this group," says Robertson. "We've got 10 guys who are a year young, balanced in with four Super Rugby players."

Unused to playing this type of arm-wrestle, set-piece oriented rugby in greasy conditions, naturally New Zealand struggled. Even in the 55-0 win over Georgia, they came under heat in the scrums.

"Wales put us under pressure. We were fully aware of how they play and their mentality at the set-piece. Against Ireland we lost too many crucial moments," said Robertson, said to be the front-runner for the 2017 Crusaders head coaching role.

Choosing his words carefully, Robertson then detailed how the scrums have been policed at this tournament, and lamented how sides, Ireland and Wales in particular, seemed disinterested in playing any (expansive) rugby against New Zealand. That, of course, goes back to the old adage of playing to one's strengths. So who can blame them for doing so?

"This World Cup has been blighted by scrums. There's been 209 scrum penalties so far. There have been 17 penalties (out of 23) against New Zealand in that area," says Robertson. "This tournament has been dominated by set-piece teams."

The semifinalists are England, Ireland, Argentina and South Africa, all prime exponents of the kick for position and muscle up at set-piece tactics. The latter actually had to throw caution to the wind yesterday, knowing a bonus point win over France was required to overtake New Zealand.

All the work that has gone in in the scrum area with Mike Cron and Jason Ryan may be compromised by some inexperienced and inconsistent officiating and one wonders whether World Rugby should be taking such a developmental overview of referees at this key event.

"We find that teams don't play against us. Wales never passed the ball more than twice in a row. Whenever we got momentum, the game was stopped and guys would lie on the ground. I'm not making excuses. We just didn't adapt," Robertson says.

That scenario was played out in the narrow pool victory in 2015 against Argentina, who wanted the game played at snail's pace. Consequently it lasted nearly two hours and those delaying tactics nearly yielded a win for the young Pumas.

"I pride myself on preparing world-class teams at a world-class level, but we just didn't win the critical moments," says Robertson. "I understand the expectations that we did not deliver on. But by the same token, this is the youngest group we have taken away."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/ar ... =11658345p

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Now that's a man begging people to believe it wasn't his fault.

[Len]

Now that's a man begging people to believe it wasn't his fault.

Thats how it reads to me. I think the main difference for the NH sides is most of their kids are attached to club side academies. Ours are pulled from provincial age grade I think. Quite a lot more amatuer.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Now that's a man begging people to believe it wasn't his fault.

I love the end about priding himself on preparing world class teams. Hmm something went awry there then eh.

[Eugene Wrayburn]

Now that's a man begging people to believe it wasn't his fault.

Thats how it reads to me. I think the main difference for the NH sides is most of their kids are attached to club side academies. Ours are pulled from provincial age grade I think. Quite a lot more amatuer.

I don't think there's any difference in how professional they are. Those identified for represented age grade in NZ will be being paid enough that they don't have to get a job won't they? No different here, albeit the sums are different.