Mr Mwenda wrote:Slade reminds me of 12trees. I hope he pushes on instead of failing to put it all together.
Harsh, 12T is a brainfart waiting to happen. Slade is trying too hard because of what's about him imo.
I always liked 36*, but he seemed to have all the skills to be a top international but was never able to be consistent. Slade has a fair number of caps and was a great hope when he was breaking through so my worry is he'll never be a dominant international player. I realise he's in a much better side than 36 was so perhaps that makes it harder to look the best, but simultaneously his platform to shine is better.
*He remains a part of the England side that also had Launchbury and Wigglesworth. I don't think there have been a better set of names.
Mr Mwenda wrote:Slade reminds me of 12trees. I hope he pushes on instead of failing to put it all together.
Harsh, 12T is a brainfart waiting to happen. Slade is trying too hard because of what's about him imo.
I always liked 36*, but he seemed to have all the skills to be a top international but was never able to be consistent. Slade has a fair number of caps and was a great hope when he was breaking through so my worry is he'll never be a dominant international player. I realise he's in a much better side than 36 was so perhaps that makes it harder to look the best, but simultaneously his platform to shine is better.
*He remains a part of the England side that also had Launchbury and Wigglesworth. I don't think there have been a better set of names.
Not sure Slade is the 'dominent international player type' tbh in the position he now plays. But a much more consistent talent than 12T....who I've only just found out is the son of a tree surgeon.
Mr Mwenda wrote:Slade reminds me of 12trees. I hope he pushes on instead of failing to put it all together.
Harsh, 12T is a brainfart waiting to happen. Slade is trying too hard because of what's about him imo.
I always liked 36*, but he seemed to have all the skills to be a top international but was never able to be consistent. Slade has a fair number of caps and was a great hope when he was breaking through so my worry is he'll never be a dominant international player. I realise he's in a much better side than 36 was so perhaps that makes it harder to look the best, but simultaneously his platform to shine is better.
*He remains a part of the England side that also had Launchbury and Wigglesworth. I don't think there have been a better set of names.
I would offer the short-lived Leicester front-row of 2002 (I think), where we were briefly able to field Perry, Dorian, and Julian as the most intimidatingly named front row ever.
Puja
*Especially since Perry's full name was Perry Freshwater, which makes it even better.
fivepointer wrote:Slade missed 6 tackles against France. That was 50% of his attempts. Really quite a poor effort. Didnt do an enormous amount in attack either. I like him as a player but do wish he would produce that really definitive outstanding performance just to prove my faith in him is justified.
Farrells attacking stats are illuminating from the weekend. 18 passes, 3 offloads and only 3 kicks.
I genuinely think Slade is wasted at 13 at test level and would replace him with Joseph in a heartbeat. I personally see Slade having more impact at 12 (with Ford rather than Farrell at 10 so he actually get’s a pass ) or at 15 where he’s gone pretty well in his outings there so far and appears much better under the high ball than Daly imo
fivepointer wrote:Slade missed 6 tackles against France. That was 50% of his attempts. Really quite a poor effort. Didnt do an enormous amount in attack either. I like him as a player but do wish he would produce that really definitive outstanding performance just to prove my faith in him is justified.
Farrells attacking stats are illuminating from the weekend. 18 passes, 3 offloads and only 3 kicks.
I genuinely think Slade is wasted at 13 at test level and would replace him with Joseph in a heartbeat. I personally see Slade having more impact at 12 (with Ford rather than Farrell at 10 so he actually get’s a pass ) or at 15 where he’s gone pretty well in his outings there so far and appears much better under the high ball than Daly imo
Man alive, I agree , mostly. For some reason though, whenever Slade has had a run at 12, he seems flummoxed.
Hasn't Stander said he'd be available for the June Tests? As in * cough * Lions *cough, cough*?
Agree on the earlier comments about Farrell the Coach. I just don't think he's that good. Though I think people have turned on Lowe pretty damn quick; pundits and fans were raving about him for Leinster and chomping at the bit to get him in the side as soon as he qualified.
If Slade is injured, will Odogwu actually get some minutes? Wasps fairly unlucky in that they have a Friday night game so even if he was sent back he probably couldn't be squeezed in. Though from a Wasps perspective it couldn't get any worse than the absolute crap they have been serving up of late.
Marchant being called up to cover Slade definitely points towards the fact that Joseph is a fair way down the pecking order currently.
Although his last half dozen caps have come on the left wing, so maybe that’s where Eddie sees him for England now. He’d be behind Watson, May, Daly and probably a fit Nowell. After that I’m not sure Eddie rates too many of the up and coming young wings in the Prem, including Thorley.
Slade is an obviously skillful player, with a good rugby brain, a big left boot and adequate but not searing pace. He generally plays quite well, but rarely imposes himself on a game and has not quite made the mark that was expected of him. Close but no cigar. To be fair, he is unlucky to be stuck at 13 in an England team which plays the way it does, with few opportunities to get his hands on the ball and show what he can do. He has not really been an improvement on Joseph, who is a much tougher defender and never should have been dropped of the squad 2-3 years ago in the first place.
Banquo wrote:
Harsh, 12T is a brainfart waiting to happen. Slade is trying too hard because of what's about him imo.
I always liked 36*, but he seemed to have all the skills to be a top international but was never able to be consistent. Slade has a fair number of caps and was a great hope when he was breaking through so my worry is he'll never be a dominant international player. I realise he's in a much better side than 36 was so perhaps that makes it harder to look the best, but simultaneously his platform to shine is better.
*He remains a part of the England side that also had Launchbury and Wigglesworth. I don't think there have been a better set of names.
I would offer the short-lived Leicester front-row of 2002 (I think), where we were briefly able to field Perry, Dorian, and Julian as the most intimidatingly named front row ever.
Puja
*Especially since Perry's full name was Perry Freshwater, which makes it even better.
They were in Jerome K Jerome's lesser known third novel Three men in a scrum, right?
Slade strikes me as being less than the sum of his parts at test level but would like him to prove/disprove this outside of a 10 & 12 that give him half a chance.
If he is out for Ireland, I hope Lawrence gets a full 80 mins. That said, it will probably be Daly....
Mr Mwenda wrote:
I always liked 36*, but he seemed to have all the skills to be a top international but was never able to be consistent. Slade has a fair number of caps and was a great hope when he was breaking through so my worry is he'll never be a dominant international player. I realise he's in a much better side than 36 was so perhaps that makes it harder to look the best, but simultaneously his platform to shine is better.
*He remains a part of the England side that also had Launchbury and Wigglesworth. I don't think there have been a better set of names.
I would offer the short-lived Leicester front-row of 2002 (I think), where we were briefly able to field Perry, Dorian, and Julian as the most intimidatingly named front row ever.
Puja
*Especially since Perry's full name was Perry Freshwater, which makes it even better.
They were in Jerome K Jerome's lesser known third novel Three men in a scrum, right?
Jerome Kaino is a novelist?!?!? Next you’ll be telling me Sebastien Chabal is an actor.
When did Daly last play 13 for anyone? I suppose he's got time to train there but I can't imagine you'd want to pull him away from practicing his highballs for too long. Not with droppy Malins about. He's never actually featured for England in the centres aside from a couple of sub appearances in 2016 IIRC?
Spiffy wrote:Joseph never should have been dropped of the squad 2-3 years ago in the first place.
He’s been in the England squad consistently right up until the most recent Autumn games hasn’t he? He lost his starting place through a nasty ankle injury and then Manu returning.
Timbo wrote:Marchant being called up to cover Slade definitely points towards the fact that Joseph is a fair way down the pecking order currently.
Although his last half dozen caps have come on the left wing, so maybe that’s where Eddie sees him for England now. He’d be behind Watson, May, Daly and probably a fit Nowell. After that I’m not sure Eddie rates too many of the up and coming young wings in the Prem, including Thorley.
His last 3 caps he's played effectively as a blind side wing, to be used as a third centre coming off said wing. I think that was an experiment, and I'd agree he's way down the order, unfortunately. Marchant has also been flitting between centre and wing for Quins, so maybe that's part of the rationale of him being called up too.
I'd still start Joseph, notwithstanding him being about the same age as Faz.
Timbo wrote:Marchant being called up to cover Slade definitely points towards the fact that Joseph is a fair way down the pecking order currently.
Although his last half dozen caps have come on the left wing, so maybe that’s where Eddie sees him for England now. He’d be behind Watson, May, Daly and probably a fit Nowell. After that I’m not sure Eddie rates too many of the up and coming young wings in the Prem, including Thorley.
His last 3 caps he's played effectively as a blind side wing, to be used as a third centre coming off said wing. I think that was an experiment, and I'd agree he's way down the order, unfortunately. Marchant has also been flitting between centre and wing for Quins, so maybe that's part of the rationale of him being called up too.
I'd still start Joseph, notwithstanding him being about the same age as Faz.
That’s all correct, but it’s probably fair to say Marchant is currently in better form after a slow start to the season, so it might simply be down to that.
Timbo wrote:Marchant being called up to cover Slade definitely points towards the fact that Joseph is a fair way down the pecking order currently.
Although his last half dozen caps have come on the left wing, so maybe that’s where Eddie sees him for England now. He’d be behind Watson, May, Daly and probably a fit Nowell. After that I’m not sure Eddie rates too many of the up and coming young wings in the Prem, including Thorley.
His last 3 caps he's played effectively as a blind side wing, to be used as a third centre coming off said wing. I think that was an experiment, and I'd agree he's way down the order, unfortunately. Marchant has also been flitting between centre and wing for Quins, so maybe that's part of the rationale of him being called up too.
I'd still start Joseph, notwithstanding him being about the same age as Faz.
That’s all correct, but it’s probably fair to say Marchant is currently in better form after a slow start to the season, so it might simply be down to that.
Do you mean Marchant is in better form than JJ? JJ has been ok. But Marchant is likely next in line in any case.
Timbo wrote:Marchant being called up to cover Slade definitely points towards the fact that Joseph is a fair way down the pecking order currently.
Although his last half dozen caps have come on the left wing, so maybe that’s where Eddie sees him for England now. He’d be behind Watson, May, Daly and probably a fit Nowell. After that I’m not sure Eddie rates too many of the up and coming young wings in the Prem, including Thorley.
His last 3 caps he's played effectively as a blind side wing, to be used as a third centre coming off said wing. I think that was an experiment, and I'd agree he's way down the order, unfortunately. Marchant has also been flitting between centre and wing for Quins, so maybe that's part of the rationale of him being called up too.
I'd still start Joseph, notwithstanding him being about the same age as Faz.
That’s all correct, but it’s probably fair to say Marchant is currently in better form after a slow start to the season, so it might simply be down to that.
Agree with this. Or Lawrence at 13. I don't think there's an obvious drop off to Lawrence or Marchant (or any, in fact) and both have lots of potential upside
I like Joseph, and with a more complementary 12 at international level I think he could have had an even more pronounced impact. He's not going to be any better by the time the WC comes around though is he? So I think looking at alternatives makes sense.
I’m interested to see whether Wilson is retained at 6 - I think he’s been quietly efficient and competent though 6 Nations but think England could use him more in the hard yards carrying than has been the case to date. He’s not an explosive carrier imo but he’s got sufficient power to take on more of the load from Billy. I think Underhill’s Lions class but the balance between Wilson and Curry is slightly better than Underhill and Curry ( who together play increasingly like two 6.5s imo a sort of Robshaw and Haskell 2.0 - but that’s the way Eddie sees the flanker role I guess)
jngf wrote:I’m interested to see whether Wilson is retained at 6 - I think he’s been quietly efficient and competent though 6 Nations but think England could use him more in the hard yards carrying than has been the case to date. He’s not an explosive carrier imo but he’s got sufficient power to take on more of the load from Billy. I think Underhill’s Lions class but the balance between Wilson and Curry is slightly better than Underhill and Curry ( who together play increasingly like two 6.5s imo a sort of Robshaw and Haskell 2.0 - but that’s the way Eddie sees the flanker role I guess)
Wilson was the crucial third jumper in the lineout, used at both the front and the tail. His decision making at the breakdown is very important, and allowed Billy (for example) to pay close attention to Dupont. He has good pace, and could carry more, but Curry's carrying has got even batter, so Wilsons support tasking is pretty important.
jngf wrote:I’m interested to see whether Wilson is retained at 6 - I think he’s been quietly efficient and competent though 6 Nations but think England could use him more in the hard yards carrying than has been the case to date. He’s not an explosive carrier imo but he’s got sufficient power to take on more of the load from Billy. I think Underhill’s Lions class but the balance between Wilson and Curry is slightly better than Underhill and Curry ( who together play increasingly like two 6.5s imo a sort of Robshaw and Haskell 2.0 - but that’s the way Eddie sees the flanker role I guess)
Wilson was the crucial third jumper in the lineout, used at both the front and the tail. His decision making at the breakdown is very important, and allowed Billy (for example) to pay close attention to Dupont. He has good pace, and could carry more, but Curry's carrying has got even batter, so Wilsons support tasking is pretty important.
I'd say Curry's lineout jumping is sufficient that we don't *need* Wilson (or Lawes, heavens forfend). I'd say this series has shown just how important Underhill is to us - having two pure 7s clearing out to make those sub-2s rucks that our attack depends on is vital and, useful though Wilson is, Underhill is a class apart (as well as being a vital leader in defence).
) or at 15 where he’s gone pretty well in his outings there so far and appears much better under the high ball than Daly imo
