Puja wrote:That may be the stupidest penalty I've ever seen given away there. Should be the end of Jonny Hill's England career for the time being.
Puja
He hasn't looked good. Though I guess he thought a try was coming. But maybe thought is a bit generous.
I think you're thinking of a different one - I'm talking about the one where he merrily swam up the side of a near-stationary maul, moving his arms like he was on the monkey bars, and shaking his hips to make absolutely certain everyone could see he wasn't bound in, before clamping around the ball carrier and making full eye contact with the referee to make sure his point was made.
Puja wrote:That may be the stupidest penalty I've ever seen given away there. Should be the end of Jonny Hill's England career for the time being.
Puja
He hasn't looked good. Though I guess he thought a try was coming. But maybe thought is a bit generous.
I think you're thinking of a different one - I'm talking about the one where he merrily swam up the side of a near-stationary maul, moving his arms like he was on the monkey bars, and shaking his hips to make absolutely certain everyone could see he wasn't bound in, before clamping around the ball carrier and making full eye contact with the referee to make sure his point was made.
Puja
Was so awful it was comical wasn't it...
Whilst LCD has generally been good, that tendency, along with Hill, to fall into rucks Exeter style has really not translated well to internationals.
fivepointer wrote:Ewels has looked a better player last 2 games. Quicker on his feet and less inclined to commit silly indiscretions.
Hill has looked up to it at times. And Ewels has to put his hand up as part of a failing scrum which set the tone for a really poor display. Essentially Ewels looked better against France, but not so much today, nobody looked good today.
fivepointer wrote:Ewels has looked a better player last 2 games. Quicker on his feet and less inclined to commit silly indiscretions.
Hill has looked up to it at times. And Ewels has to put his hand up as part of a failing scrum which set the tone for a really poor display. Essentially Ewels looked better against France, but not so much today, nobody looked good today.
Scrumhead wrote:What a an absolutely sh*t 6 Nations
Still have faith in Eddie now? (sorry bit mean of me of me I know )
On wider point imo time to move on from Farrell, Youngs and Billy Vunipola (who imo is looking past it now and trading on former glories. There’s a poisonous residue from Saracens controversy that’s now infected England side... )
I can see your gleeful face right now ...
You were invisible last week after a decent performance so I see no reason to debate with you this week ...
It is not about this individual or that player. It is about the collective unit being dramatically inconsistent game/on/game. How, why? Something is fundamentally wrong.
Picking the best 23 from the match-day 46 before the French game might have seen, say, 6 or 7 English, yet, on the day, we won. Before today's game, might we have chosen 12 or 13 English players, yet we lost?
fivepointer wrote:Ewels has looked a better player last 2 games. Quicker on his feet and less inclined to commit silly indiscretions.
Hill has looked up to it at times. And Ewels has to put his hand up as part of a failing scrum which set the tone for a really poor display. Essentially Ewels looked better against France, but not so much today, nobody looked good today.
Bald men fighting over a comb.
Not really, Hill has had many more moments looking like he physically belongs at this level, Ewels over quite a number of caps has been passive in the main. Hill also brings many more stupid moments, but there does seem to be more of a possible upside to Hill.
Digby wrote:
Hill has looked up to it at times. And Ewels has to put his hand up as part of a failing scrum which set the tone for a really poor display. Essentially Ewels looked better against France, but not so much today, nobody looked good today.
Bald men fighting over a comb.
Not really, Hill has had many more moments looking like he physically belongs at this level, Ewels over quite a number of caps has been passive in the main. Hill also brings many more stupid moments, but there does seem to be more of a possible upside to Hill.
Passive v many stupid moments = bald men fighting over a comb.
Puja wrote:That may be the stupidest penalty I've ever seen given away there. Should be the end of Jonny Hill's England career for the time being.
Puja
He hasn't looked good. Though I guess he thought a try was coming. But maybe thought is a bit generous.
I think you're thinking of a different one - I'm talking about the one where he merrily swam up the side of a near-stationary maul, moving his arms like he was on the monkey bars, and shaking his hips to make absolutely certain everyone could see he wasn't bound in, before clamping around the ball carrier and making full eye contact with the referee to make sure his point was made.
Danno wrote:Itoje, Curry and Wilson were all fine imo. Lawrence did as well as could be expected and Ewels was efficient. Outside that I don't think anyone had a game they will ever want to remember.
yup,though Curry was clumsy as. Not sure what Ford did to get yanked either.
That was pretty grim. No invention or adaptation. On 55 minutes, 15 points behind, and England were faffing about trying to win a scrum penalty on their own 22.
fivepointer wrote:
2nd time in 4 seasons . See also 2018.
We had some misfortune today. We had a a very good case for a penalty try in the 10th minute when Ireland collapsed a maul on their goal line. Not given.
We lose Ford and the Farrell in quick succession meaning Robson plays at 10. We lose Billy resulting in a kid coming on in the back row.
Against that we were largely shit. I dont think we engineered a single line break, and failed miserably to get our wingers into the game. Our discipline was again appalling. We looked lethargic and slow witted. we kicked too much - and mostly pretty badly.
A few players seemed to be going through the motions. There was little urgency with or without the ball. We gave the Irish HB's a pretty easy ride.
3 very poor defeats this 6N's is a bad return.
Ford was pulled; we had a 6:2 bench- so utterly self inflicted. And both that and Billy going off was after the game was lost.
You talk about getting wingers intio the game etc etc. That's because we gave away a sh*t load of pens upfront again.
The 6:2 bench was because Malins pulled out though. Ford was a tactical gamble, same as taking Wilson off. Eddie was hoping that Marchant and Earl would offer us more attacking spark.
Odogwu was available. 'Attacking sparkle' was not the issue- turonovers and penalties were.
fivepointer wrote:Ewels has looked a better player last 2 games. Quicker on his feet and less inclined to commit silly indiscretions.
Hill has looked up to it at times. And Ewels has to put his hand up as part of a failing scrum which set the tone for a really poor display. Essentially Ewels looked better against France, but not so much today, nobody looked good today.
The failing scrum was really a front row fail, I thought. And mostly Mako, at that.
Oakboy wrote:It is not about this individual or that player. It is about the collective unit being dramatically inconsistent game/on/game. How, why? Something is fundamentally wrong.
Picking the best 23 from the match-day 46 before the French game might have seen, say, 6 or 7 English, yet, on the day, we won. Before today's game, might we have chosen 12 or 13 English players, yet we lost?
Explain.
well yes. But yet you bang on about individuals.....
Scrumhead wrote:What a an absolutely sh*t 6 Nations
Still have faith in Eddie now? (sorry bit mean of me of me I know )
On wider point imo time to move on from Farrell, Youngs and Billy Vunipola (who imo is looking past it now and trading on former glories. There’s a poisonous residue from Saracens controversy that’s now infected England side... )
I can see your gleeful face right now ...
You were invisible last week after a decent performance so I see no reason to debate with you this week ...
Thing is though, there is enough evidence to say that there is something profoundly wrong, imo. I've held back from this, and its difficult, because its tough to argue that near enough the best players aren't out there. Cue the sarries card, but I'm not sure that gets the heart of it.
Not really, Hill has had many more moments looking like he physically belongs at this level, Ewels over quite a number of caps has been passive in the main. Hill also brings many more stupid moments, but there does seem to be more of a possible upside to Hill.
Passive v many stupid moments = bald men fighting over a comb.
Largely irrelevant Vs might belong, neither have been brilliant which isn't a surprise when stepping down through Kruis, Lawes and Launchbury to look at the next best. So despite the worrying lack of wokeness in attacking baldness yes neither has looked impressed, but it's still different in that Hill does seem to have more potential to be relevant
Getting back to Exeter and talking to Francis about just how hard it is to rise to the level of bang average at test level might prove useful to Hill, and the mental break to get away from this environment, it's not healthy even if it's not all rat poison.
morepork wrote:That was pretty grim. No invention or adaptation. On 55 minutes, 15 points behind, and England were faffing about trying to win a scrum penalty on their own 22.
This is somewhat similar to Scotland and Wales in that we could scarce get to phase 3, partly their breakdown but often out penalties. Today had the variant the entry point into the game for Ireland was our scrum initially, then we mixed in some not catching the ball at the back, and then came the pens
Maybe if we're over training there's some mitigation. But it's hard to know what to make of things Eddie says, because they come with the caveat of being things Eddie says
Overall not close to good enough, but I am still pleased at the shift in attack.
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