Big ol' player review

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

For the whole tournament:

Mako - came straight in from injury and looked good. Against Italy. Really not been himself otherwise. Even against France was one of the lesser performers. His usual bosh + tip off game wasn't up to scratch and I don't ever feel he's a particularly good scrummager.

Genge - he's usually such an injection of energy and aggression but has lacked both this tournament. Doesn't look right and was hoping Obano would get a chance above him.

Sinckler - nothing to see here. Has been his usual quality self, and there's no player more fun to watch at scrum time. Just for the facial expressions.

Stuart - pretty invisible most of the time, but solid, and hasn't made many glaring errors. Should get some time while Sinks is jamboreeing.

George - looked completely out of sorts against Scotland, but has actually looked pretty good since and I still think he's first choice.

LCD - Enthusiastic with the ball and without and his throwing has been fine. Feel he can be a bit headless chicken at times though and he's given away a fair few of the sillier pens.

Maro - was a penalty machine against Wales but otherwise has been his usual pain in the arse self. Still world class, but has done his captaincy bid no favours.

Hill - since Daly redeemed himself (slightly) the last two games is probably the player I've been most disappointed in. Gave away two of the dumbest pens I've ever seen and was pretty ineffective otherwise. Come back Kruis.

Ewels - actually looked really good. Can be a great foil to Itoje.

Wilson - even he has had a bad game this tournament! A great solid player. Just wonder what he is for if everyone is fit.

Curry - brilliant, but even he's looked a bit lost at times.

Earl - definitely needs time to work out how to play in this team. Loads of potential though.

Billy - might have looked better against France but still think we need to work out a way to play without him. He draws multiple players into contact still atm, but not sure that will last if he keeps underperforming.

Youngs - take it all back. Has been pretty good even while we've been bad. Might just look that way when the alternative is...

Robson - pfft. Subs > Finishers > Finished. Feel for the guy, and he should have had opportunities age's ago but...

Ford - is a fantastic attacking General, sees the field and moves people around brilliantly. But. Ireland has made me wonder if he can easily be gameplanned for. Against the quick rush he just couldn't operate. Worrying.

Farrell - wasn't awful. Never want to see him at 10 again though. Lacks the rugby brain to run a successful attack.

Slade - I think there were signs against Wales and France of how he could be great, but also how he just never seems to push on.

Lawrence - was obviously unlucky against Scotland. But today every time he got the ball I was waiting for him to be turned over. Seemed to run down dark alleyways and isn't quite there for me.

May - might just be the beginning of the end for him. Not that he was bad per se, I just feel he doesn't necessarily fit as well anymore. Wouldn't be surprised to see him left out of Lions and be part of the 20% squad turnover pre-WC. Seeing him floundering after LRZ was quite a moment!

Watson - been brilliant. Actually thought he looked a lot like Daly a few years ago. Combined brilliant attacking play with mistake free calm, confident defence.

Daly - as I said before he's redeemed himself slightly and I think he'll still be a Lion (winger!) but, God was he bad!

Malins - actually a pretty poor starting debut. But showed some promise and certainly looks more natural at 15 than Daly.

[Banquo]

How many times do you think Ford touched the ball? Running an attack when the pack gives away 14 penalties, 12 turnovers and can't win scrum ball is a tad tricky......thats before Youngs kicks it.

[Epaminondas Pules]

That doesn’t excuse him kicking too long and passing into touch.

[Mellsblue]

But it will get him a hundred caps and a move to scrum half.

[fivepointer]

Watson has been our best player. Most players have had their moments but genuine consistency has eluded them. A few have gone backwards.

[Oakboy]

Watson has been our best player. Most players have had their moments but genuine consistency has eluded them. A few have gone backwards.

Agree on Watson but I'd still shift him to FB. As for your 2nd and 3rd sentence, is the Saracens factor the only difference from other countries' situations? The covid bubble factor has been the same. Injury levels have not been that dissimilar.

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

Think Sinckler and Curry have also been good. Pretty sure it was Mako struggling in the scrums yesterday more than Sincks and most of Curry's issues have come from trying to compensate for the shitshow around him.
Watson absolutely didn't put a foot wrong though, I'm not sure that I'd want to mess him about by moving him to fb and the upheaval in gameplan that that would produce. Especially as Malins needs a chance to cement his place.

[fivepointer]

Watson has been our best player. Most players have had their moments but genuine consistency has eluded them. A few have gone backwards.

Agree on Watson but I'd still shift him to FB. As for your 2nd and 3rd sentence, is the Saracens factor the only difference from other countries' situations? The covid bubble factor has been the same. Injury levels have not been that dissimilar.

Dont think our lack of consistency can be down to the Saracens contingent. Players from other clubs have been off key and underwhelming.
I also think our problems have come to a head this 6N with some truly dreadful performances, but the trend has been ongoing since the WC.

[Digby]

The penalty count is a problem, even if yesterday the scrums set the scene not the pens it was still too high a count and we'll need to attack really well just to overcome our own penalty count.

But the shift on attack has been really good to see, even if we also too often look like we're just wishing Manu was available.

The squad does feature most of our best players, the team too. We perhaps do need to look at some power in the backline even if not the best players. Lawrence does not look a power player, which does then leave the problem of who, and perhaps the issue of not over reacting to getting beaten up somewhat by Ireland

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

The squad does feature most of our best players, the team too. We perhaps do need to look at some power in the backline even if not the best players.

I agree with this. I think a lot of us get caught up in the search for the new messiah too much. Outside of S. Simmonds there's not many guys who could lay a claim to being genuinely hard done by. Even Odogwu has had a very limited few games where he looked brilliant.
Most of the players I would really like to see are for development reasons, Smith, Randall, Obano etc rather than them necessarily outplaying the incumbent.
Leadership and discipline seem to be the main pitfalls at the moment, but there's definitely a big question over how we play without Billy and Tuilagi.

[Digby]

The squad does feature most of our best players, the team too. We perhaps do need to look at some power in the backline even if not the best players.

I agree with this. I think a lot of us get caught up in the search for the new messiah too much. Outside of S. Simmonds there's not many guys who could lay a claim to being genuinely hard done by. Even Odogwu has had a very limited few games where he looked brilliant.
Most of the players I would really like to see are for development reasons, Smith, Randall, Obano etc rather than them necessarily outplaying the incumbent.
Leadership and discipline seem to be the main pitfalls at the moment, but there's definitely a big question over how we play without Billy and Tuilagi.

I don't even think Simmonds has been hard done by, either of them

[Mikey Brown]

Ditching May would be ridiculous.

[Digby]

Ditching May would be ridiculous.

Why?

If we're going to keep Watson, and Malins is going to play 15, and we want some power in the backline because that balance is better than May being individually better it should be on the table.

You could reasonably keep May because he's individually better, but it wouldn't be ridiculous to pick someone like Cokanasiga or Thorley to add in more power, and you'd need to drop someone to make that happen.

Also we get a lot of shouts we need to play some younger players at 9, 8 and 12, that doesn't not apply to the 11 also

[Banquo]

That doesn’t excuse him kicking too long and passing into touch.

true, but he had precious little ball - the passing into touch was on Watson I thought by the by. 'blaming' him for lack of attack in the backs ignore 14 pens, 2 free kicks and 12 turnovers.

[Banquo]

Watson has been our best player. Most players have had their moments but genuine consistency has eluded them. A few have gone backwards.

Agree on Watson but I'd still shift him to FB. As for your 2nd and 3rd sentence, is the Saracens factor the only difference from other countries' situations? The covid bubble factor has been the same. Injury levels have not been that dissimilar.

Dont think our lack of consistency can be down to the Saracens contingent. Players from other clubs have been off key and underwhelming.
I also think our problems have come to a head this 6N with some truly dreadful performances, but the trend has been ongoing since the WC.

yes, I'd think the Sarries guys are now at the same level as everyone else- they were probably a bit off at the start of the 6N.

[Banquo]

The squad does feature most of our best players, the team too. We perhaps do need to look at some power in the backline even if not the best players.

I agree with this. I think a lot of us get caught up in the search for the new messiah too much. Outside of S. Simmonds there's not many guys who could lay a claim to being genuinely hard done by. Even Odogwu has had a very limited few games where he looked brilliant.
Most of the players I would really like to see are for development reasons, Smith, Randall, Obano etc rather than them necessarily outplaying the incumbent.
Leadership and discipline seem to be the main pitfalls at the moment, but there's definitely a big question over how we play without Billy and Tuilagi.

I don't even think Simmonds has been hard done by, either of them

Me either, though I'd maybe have Simmonds S ahead of Earl, and Simmonds J as the third 10 around the squad.

[Digby]

and we don't know just how badly the various teams have struggled with Covid life. at other times England might have had Marler available which would have been a big boon yesterday, and even those players who went into camp will be struggling with something very unusual and one hopes that doesn't repeat in different ways.

where that mental fatigue put them I've no idea, and maybe Ireland were even worse for it which would make the game worse again, but it might also be a poor time to send for the firing squad. especially when I don't know how much the players were targeting games Vs over training

[Digby]

I agree with this. I think a lot of us get caught up in the search for the new messiah too much. Outside of S. Simmonds there's not many guys who could lay a claim to being genuinely hard done by. Even Odogwu has had a very limited few games where he looked brilliant.
Most of the players I would really like to see are for development reasons, Smith, Randall, Obano etc rather than them necessarily outplaying the incumbent.
Leadership and discipline seem to be the main pitfalls at the moment, but there's definitely a big question over how we play without Billy and Tuilagi.

I don't even think Simmonds has been hard done by, either of them

Me either, though I'd maybe have Simmonds S ahead of Earl, and Simmonds J as the third 10 around the squad.

Could do, and I wouldn't think the likes of Earl or Martin hard done by at that point

[Banquo]

I don't even think Simmonds has been hard done by, either of them

Me either, though I'd maybe have Simmonds S ahead of Earl, and Simmonds J as the third 10 around the squad.

Could do, and I wouldn't think the likes of Earl or Martin hard done by at that point

Indeed. Its pretty clear, well to me, that Eddie has virtually the right squad most of the time. It just goes tits up when they have to actually play someone .

[Digby]

Me either, though I'd maybe have Simmonds S ahead of Earl, and Simmonds J as the third 10 around the squad.

Could do, and I wouldn't think the likes of Earl or Martin hard done by at that point

Indeed. Its pretty clear, well to me, that Eddie has virtually the right squad most of the time. It just goes tits up when they have to actually play someone .

We're very much in the period of if we can force the style of game we want we'll probably win. Unless like Scotland and Wales the discipline is so bad we abandon hope even before trying to win. SA in the final and now Ireland, and France in the Autumn showed you can knock England back physically, in the breakdown, in the midfield and in the scrum, and that's maybe a bigger worry than the discipline, because we could stop giving away some pens , it's harder to see how we just live with extra power.

[Banquo]

Could do, and I wouldn't think the likes of Earl or Martin hard done by at that point

Indeed. Its pretty clear, well to me, that Eddie has virtually the right squad most of the time. It just goes tits up when they have to actually play someone .

We're very much in the period of if we can force the style of game we want we'll probably win. Unless like Scotland and Wales the discipline is so bad we abandon hope even before trying to win. SA in the final and now Ireland, and France in the Autumn showed you can knock England back physically, in the breakdown, in the midfield and in the scrum, and that's maybe a bigger worry than the discipline, because we could stop giving away some pens , it's harder to see how we just live with extra power.

Discipline was very poor v Ireland too, and I don't actually think that was all pressure induced.

[Mikey Brown]

Ditching May would be ridiculous.

Why?

If we're going to keep Watson, and Malins is going to play 15, and we want some power in the backline because that balance is better than May being individually better it should be on the table.

You could reasonably keep May because he's individually better, but it wouldn't be ridiculous to pick someone like Cokanasiga or Thorley to add in more power, and you'd need to drop someone to make that happen.

Also we get a lot of shouts we need to play some younger players at 9, 8 and 12, that doesn't not apply to the 11 also

Maybe we read that as meaning different things. I took it at calling time on his international career completely after 1 pretty up and down 6 nations, having been the form winger (or thereabouts) in world rugby for a little while now.

Outplayed by Watson this 6 nations - absolutely, want more powerful strike running options on the wing - yes, but I don't see why that means calling time on May's career. His starting shirt is certainly up for grabs at the moment though.

When is Daly next going to play any rugby? In the championship? For the Lions?

I have no idea if Nowell or Cokanasiga have a realistic chance of staying fit long enough to be serious options for England. I like Thorley but he doesn't seem to have quite the shine of a season or two back, though Gloucester seem pretty terrible right now.

[Digby]

Ditching May would be ridiculous.

Why?

If we're going to keep Watson, and Malins is going to play 15, and we want some power in the backline because that balance is better than May being individually better it should be on the table.

You could reasonably keep May because he's individually better, but it wouldn't be ridiculous to pick someone like Cokanasiga or Thorley to add in more power, and you'd need to drop someone to make that happen.

Also we get a lot of shouts we need to play some younger players at 9, 8 and 12, that doesn't not apply to the 11 also

Maybe we read that as meaning different things. I took it at calling time on his international career completely after 1 pretty up and down 6 nations, having been the form winger (or thereabouts) in world rugby for a little while now.

Outplayed by Watson this 6 nations - absolutely, want more powerful strike running options on the wing - yes, but I don't see why that means calling time on May's career. His starting shirt is certainly up for grabs at the moment though.

When is Daly next going to play any rugby? In the championship? For the Lions?

I have no idea if Nowell or Cokanasiga have a realistic chance of staying fit long enough to be serious options for England. I like Thorley but he doesn't seem to have quite the shine of a season or two back, though Gloucester seem pretty terrible right now.

It never even occurred to me people were calling time on May's England career, that is weird in itself, it would also seem very weird to the other players to just bin a very talented player who is so professional in their approach. frankly you'd really only cause confusion doing that sort of thing, I mean okay if he was disruptive and a pish poor example of what you'd want an England player to be off the park but blimey

[Digby]

Indeed. Its pretty clear, well to me, that Eddie has virtually the right squad most of the time. It just goes tits up when they have to actually play someone .

We're very much in the period of if we can force the style of game we want we'll probably win. Unless like Scotland and Wales the discipline is so bad we abandon hope even before trying to win. SA in the final and now Ireland, and France in the Autumn showed you can knock England back physically, in the breakdown, in the midfield and in the scrum, and that's maybe a bigger worry than the discipline, because we could stop giving away some pens , it's harder to see how we just live with extra power.

Discipline was very poor v Ireland too, and I don't actually think that was all pressure induced.

The pens came once the scrum failed, and the breakdown and midfield collisions were being lost. So at least it wasn't the setter of the scene as it was against Scotland and Wales, not that it was close to adequate,


If you want though to see a side really lose the plot then yesterday's classic between Romania and Spain is worth a gander. Obviously p/d will just adore the Romania kit, but beyond that Spain came into the match with the memory of them losing the plot against Belgium costing them the WC spot to Romania, before Romania and Spain both then failed ineligible player standards advancing Russia, and I don't know if that had emotions running too high but blimey Spain well and truly lost the plot, and it could have been worse for them

[Banquo]

We're very much in the period of if we can force the style of game we want we'll probably win. Unless like Scotland and Wales the discipline is so bad we abandon hope even before trying to win. SA in the final and now Ireland, and France in the Autumn showed you can knock England back physically, in the breakdown, in the midfield and in the scrum, and that's maybe a bigger worry than the discipline, because we could stop giving away some pens , it's harder to see how we just live with extra power.

Discipline was very poor v Ireland too, and I don't actually think that was all pressure induced.

The pens came once the scrum failed, and the breakdown and midfield collisions were being lost. So at least it wasn't the setter of the scene as it was against Scotland and Wales, not that it was close to adequate,


If you want though to see a side really lose the plot then yesterday's classic between Romania and Spain is worth a gander. Obviously p/d will just adore the Romania kit, but beyond that Spain came into the match with the memory of them losing the plot against Belgium costing them the WC spot to Romania, before Romania and Spain both then failed ineligible player standards advancing Russia, and I don't know if that had emotions running too high but blimey Spain well and truly lost the plot, and it could have been worse for them

Not sure I agree- the rot set in early when we had a scrum on their line, and Mako was done for an early shove- free kick. We then gave away two more cheap penalties and bingo, Ireland on the front foot. I'd say the pressure was greater than the scots game, but there were a lot of unforced penalties still. We did the same at the start of the second half; on the front foot in their 22.....then 3 penalties later, they kick a goal--- the first penalty was lineout crossing, utterly dim and unneeded.