Big ol' player review

[Which Tyler]

So more or less a constant when good and an actual constant when falling away?

If you insist, but that's still an unbelievably harsh take on things IMO.
https://rugby.statbunker.com/players/Ge ... 1&dates=-1
Arrived at Exeter in September 2016
16-17, 20/22 in the Prem; 5/6 in ERC; starts in SF and F - Exeter win the final
17-18, season ravaged by injury
18-19, affected by injury, but 19/22 in the Prem; 4/6 in ERC; starts SF ad F Exeter lose the final
19-20, season ravaged by injury
20-21, season still in progress; ravaged by Covid, lacking Saracens, and Exeter falling all the way to 2nd place (currently)

So when not injured, he's a constant in the side - with Exeter reaching the final in each of those seasons, winning one of them.

FTR, my "more or less constant" meant - constant when actually fit

[Digby]

I've just said it's somewhat unfair to be dismissive of him if I stop and think about it. But I have stopped thinking about him

[switchskier]

So we're saying Devoto has established himself as a constant in the worst performing Exeter team of many seasons

Not really - let's face it, when fit, he's been more-or-less a constant in the best performing Exeter team ever - he's been their first choice 12 since a month or so after arriving there.

So more or less a constant when good and an actual constant when falling away?

I did think at one point he might be something akin to Jauzion for England, but even though he's not that old I've moved on in my head. Not sure moving on is sensible or fair if I actually think about it, but I find I have lumped him in with the Burrells and Twelvtrees

If Exeter go on to do the double this season, then you'd think that his claims would be at least as strong as the Simmonds boys. He offers a bit of a partnership with Slade too. He's a better carrier than Farrell, good defender and has the ten experience to keep things moving. Looks the ideal option to me.

The only other alternative would be Francis, who I have mentally lumped in with Twelvetrees as a retrograde step. But that may be because I saw him play in a horrendous Edinburgh team.

[Which Tyler]

If Exeter go on to do the double this season, then you'd think that his claims would be at least as strong as the Simmonds boys. He offers a bit of a partnership with Slade too. He's a better carrier than Farrell, good defender and has the ten experience to keep things moving. Looks the ideal option to me.

The only other alternative would be Francis, who I have mentally lumped in with Twelvetrees as a retrograde step. But that may be because I saw him play in a horrendous Edinburgh team.

Personally, I'd have Devoto and POC both going to America this summer - ideally both getting game time between Ford and Slade.
I'd also be keen to have the Exeter 10-12-13 combination for at least 1 batch of 20 minutes.

[fivepointer]

I'd like to see Devoto involved in the summer. He's been very good for Exe this season.

[Oakboy]

Each time I watch Devoto I am surprised at how strong he is physically in defence and attack. He is stronger than he looks and definitely a better runner with the ball than Farrell. Beyond that I cannot make up my mind about him and would prefer to see O'Conor tried first. Having said that, I'd like to see Simmonds, Devoto, Slade tried as a unit as WT suggests. Then, though, I'd be wondering who would play at 8 and 9 to give them a fair chance.

[Banquo]

I honestly feel like there's not much we can do or should do about the personnel. We're struggling with 13, imo, and also at 15, while Genge has been a total disappointment for me. We also struggle for Itoje's partner if Launch and Lawes are absent, though Ewels was perfectly adequate there, imo.

But the problems are that, despite the fact we had a good couple of seasons without them, we're back to having the exact same problems we've been moaning about throughout Eddie's regime. Discipline, leadership, the ability to play what's in front of you.

For me, it just feels like Eddie has tried to build a team in his image, chosen Farrell as his captain as he's the most similar, and instead created a team in Farrell's image. And we've seen what Farrell gives you... he sticks to a gameplan almost perfectly for 80-90% of the time, and the rest of the time he is reckless, petty and petulant.

So that's what we get: a team who rigidly adhere to what Eddie wants them to do, without playing what's in front of them, except for 10-15 minutes of the game (can be broken down throughout) where we give away insane penalties, back-chat, are offside, make stupid mistakes, and so on.

We can't keep the intensity up for the entire 80 because we've decided to build a team in someone's image instead of building a team that is the sum of its parts.

That's my feeling and I know it's only a feeling and not backed up by anything... but while I actually think Farrell is probably our best option at 12 right now (if we continue on the same general tactical plan, which I actually think might be the right course of action), I think the biggest improvement to our general play would be to strip him of the captaincy and give it to someone who is the epitome of Mr. Consistent. Someone like a less nice Robshaw...

I feel there's only 1 player who fits that mould: Ford.

So what is it about Farrells game at 12 that makes you say that?

He provides a great foil with Ford and understands generally what he is looking to do. He's good at providing a second set of eyes, though he's not good enough as the primary scanner. His one-on-one defence is generally good. He provides a kicking option. Slade has never looked comfortable at 12. Devoto has always been injured. Erm...Northmore was suggested as someone to look at for the summer tour...that's how many options we have at 12...

So pretty much what any half decent 12 would offer. I grant you that there may not be any, its true ......I would look at Piers O Connor there, Lawrence there, Devoto there, even another look at Slade there. What Ford needs more than anyone else is a runner at 12 imo.

[twitchy]

[Banquo]

Good for Tom, but look at Wyn Jones. Big step up this 6N I think.

[16th man]

He's given away a few pens but what 7 wouldn't when getting through that sort of workload.

[Digby]

Good for Tom, but look at Wyn Jones. Big step up this 6N I think.

Jones has based on some very limited and casual viewing of the Wales games has stepped forwards a little in defence and back a little in attack. Which is fair enough, nobody has the energy to make every play you'd like them to. And that in a side which overall is a little less entertaining than some of the earlier Pivac games, perhaps some of the realties of test rugby curtailing some of the over playing when it wasn't really on

[Banquo]

Good for Tom, but look at Wyn Jones. Big step up this 6N I think.

Jones has based on some very limited and casual viewing of the Wales games has stepped forwards a little in defence and back a little in attack. Which is fair enough, nobody has the energy to make every play you'd like them to. And that in a side which overall is a little less entertaining than some of the earlier Pivac games, perhaps some of the realties of test rugby curtailing some of the over playing when it wasn't really on

I'd say his carrying has been very effective. His scrummaging has also been excellent. I'd say he's favourite to start at 1 in the long awaited super event that is the Lions tour, and I don't think that was on the cards at the start of the 6N. I'd also say that I don't find Wales at all uninteresting to watch, and they have definitely become a side that is a bit more than the sum of their parts; until the last 10 minutes of the final game, they had looked very well disciplined, well conditioned, and frankly well coached.

[Digby]

Good for Tom, but look at Wyn Jones. Big step up this 6N I think.

Jones has based on some very limited and casual viewing of the Wales games has stepped forwards a little in defence and back a little in attack. Which is fair enough, nobody has the energy to make every play you'd like them to. And that in a side which overall is a little less entertaining than some of the earlier Pivac games, perhaps some of the realties of test rugby curtailing some of the over playing when it wasn't really on

I'd say his carrying has been very effective. His scrummaging has also been excellent. I'd say he's favourite to start at 1 in the long awaited super event that is the Lions tour, and I don't think that was on the cards at the start of the 6N. I'd also say that I don't find Wales at all uninteresting to watch, and they have definitely become a side that is a bit more than the sum of their parts; until the last 10 minutes of the final game, they had looked very well disciplined, well conditioned, and frankly well coached.

You though, and I mean this in a nice way, are a rugby nause. And for those who like the detail one of the benefits of rugby is there's always something happening, unless it's waiting for a scrum to engage or a 9 to kick because of the construct of an ongoing battle for possession

I could well be wrong on Jones this 6N because I've barely paid attention to them, and because sometimes I'm not right. He certainly can carry, and this is hardly the first time he's looked impressive.

[Banquo]

Jones has based on some very limited and casual viewing of the Wales games has stepped forwards a little in defence and back a little in attack. Which is fair enough, nobody has the energy to make every play you'd like them to. And that in a side which overall is a little less entertaining than some of the earlier Pivac games, perhaps some of the realties of test rugby curtailing some of the over playing when it wasn't really on

I'd say his carrying has been very effective. His scrummaging has also been excellent. I'd say he's favourite to start at 1 in the long awaited super event that is the Lions tour, and I don't think that was on the cards at the start of the 6N. I'd also say that I don't find Wales at all uninteresting to watch, and they have definitely become a side that is a bit more than the sum of their parts; until the last 10 minutes of the final game, they had looked very well disciplined, well conditioned, and frankly well coached.

You though, and I mean this in a nice way, are a rugby nause. And for those who like the detail one of the benefits of rugby is there's always something happening, unless it's waiting for a scrum to engage or a 9 to kick because of the construct of an ongoing battle for possession

I could well be wrong on Jones this 6N because I've barely paid attention to them, and because sometimes I'm not right. He certainly can carry, and this is hardly the first time he's looked impressive.

That might be on me then, I've maybe just noticed him more, especially over the ball in defence; he carried/passed the ball an amazing 15 times v France.

And no offence taken- I do find a lot of games tedious in fairness, but admire good execution, in any aspect of the game- because it takes hard work and skill. There's nearly always something to take away from any game.

[Digby]

I didn't really watch the France Vs Wales game, I was a little pissed off with life in general. My main impression of the game is wondering where Navidi was held before propelling himself forwards off the ground to score with straightening knees. But I'm told it was an excellent game, and another excellent game featuring France, and another game where France lived up to many of their most cherished/hated stereotypes

[FKAS]

Good for Tom, but look at Wyn Jones. Big step up this 6N I think.

I think Wyn Jones went from in the running for a Lion's spot but maybe behind some others to definitely booked his seat this 6N. Consistently good performances and didn't show any weakness to his game. Given Mako was well off his game, Genge couldn't make enough impact and Cian Healey is past his best it moves Wyn Jones and Rory Sutherland into pole position for contention of the number 1 shirt.

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

Marler!

[FKAS]

Marler!

Probably won't want to spend two something months away from his family I wouldn't have thought.

[Banquo]

Good for Tom, but look at Wyn Jones. Big step up this 6N I think.

I think Wyn Jones went from in the running for a Lion's spot but maybe behind some others to definitely booked his seat this 6N. Consistently good performances and didn't show any weakness to his game. Given Mako was well off his game, Genge couldn't make enough impact and Cian Healey is past his best it moves Wyn Jones and Rory Sutherland into pole position for contention of the number 1 shirt.

Yep, that was my follow up thought.

Though funnily enough, folks have forgotten that Mako played pretty well v France. But was done like a kipper v Ireland, its true.

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

I've been worried about Mako's scrummaging for a long time and the World Cup Final was the culmination of slightly dodgy performances.
Seeing as we're up against SA, I'd only want him on the bench. Marler would be my first choice and to be honest I'm not particularly confident in anyone else. Although Wyn is definitely the front runner at the moment, I reckon SA will beast whoever...

[Danno]

Good for Tom, but look at Wyn Jones. Big step up this 6N I think.

I think Wyn Jones went from in the running for a Lion's spot but maybe behind some others to definitely booked his seat this 6N. Consistently good performances and didn't show any weakness to his game. Given Mako was well off his game, Genge couldn't make enough impact and Cian Healey is past his best it moves Wyn Jones and Rory Sutherland into pole position for contention of the number 1 shirt.

Yep, that was my follow up thought.

Though funnily enough, folks have forgotten that Mako played pretty well v France. But was done like a kipper v Ireland, its true.

I'd see him as a massive risk against SA, even before they noticed him being schooled in the scrum v. Ireland. He'll go, but would be very surprised if he starts the tests

[Scrumhead]

Without wanting to turn this in to a Lions thread, I think we’re all forgetting SA have not played in a LONG time and their domestic players haven’t had much exposure to high level rugby for a while now.

They may actually focus on mostly overseas players for that reason but even then, the likes of Vincent Koch have been playing in the Championship.

A bit like the Saracens players underperforming for England in the 6N, I think there’s a reasonable chance a lot of the SA players will be undercooked.

[FKAS]

I think Wyn Jones went from in the running for a Lion's spot but maybe behind some others to definitely booked his seat this 6N. Consistently good performances and didn't show any weakness to his game. Given Mako was well off his game, Genge couldn't make enough impact and Cian Healey is past his best it moves Wyn Jones and Rory Sutherland into pole position for contention of the number 1 shirt.

Yep, that was my follow up thought.

Though funnily enough, folks have forgotten that Mako played pretty well v France. But was done like a kipper v Ireland, its true.

I'd see him as a massive risk against SA, even before they noticed him being schooled in the scrum v. Ireland. He'll go, but would be very surprised if he starts the tests

I've wondered for a little while Andrew Porter started as a loosehead but ended up playing more tighthead as that's what Leinster and Ireland needed. If he moves back to loosehead with Healey getting to the end of his career then a Porter and Furlong combination at prop would offer an awful lot at set piece and around the park, well as long as Porter can be as powerful as he's become at tighthead to loosehead.

[Scrumhead]

Yep. That would be a very good combo.

As it is, I’d take Furlong, Sinckler and Porter as tightheads though.

[Timbo]

Wasn’t Porter the Leinster tight head that got absolutely rinsed by, supposedly dodgy scrummager, Mako Vunipola 6 months ago in the Champions Cup qf?