(Hypothetical) Tour Squad

[Which Tyler]

I think the games will be very little about development, because it's hard to develop against inherently inferior sides. It's more about the time in camp, which a lot of people sound like they're sick and tired of.

Absolutely; but you've still got to play the matches; and I think you learn more by playing your existing structures and enough players familiar with it; and introducing the new guys around that, than you do in just throwing a dozen new caps onto the pitch and seeing what they do - regardless of the opposition's quality

Also worth keeping in mind the Lions tour might not happen, and if the jamboree does still go ahead it's likely to be a paired back tour with less players going. They might only play 5-6 games out of 1-2 stadia.

I thought the Lions was (currently) confirmed as going ahead - and more likely to than England's trip?
Even if they don't, I'd still pick the same as above personally, as I think I've got enough regulars in there - but I'd get free-reign to pick which regulars, so it might be a little different (Itoje in as captain, for example; and my pic of the backrowers to go, rather than Gatland's discard)

Still, given how fed up people were being stuck in hotel rooms we might want to consider mental freshness and try to be sure it's beneficial for people to go

Good point, well made - that will be a delicate balancing act - and require way more personal knowledge of the players involved than we'll ever be able to manage.

[Digby]

I don't think SA have confirmed an itinerary and that things are going ahead. About as much confirmation as they've got is it will not be staged in the UK or Australia now, probably.

Given the Lions might fund SA for some seasons to come they're not going to love the idea of having no live audiences or minimal fans in attendance.

We don't even know if our players would get approval for travel to SA even if the rugby bodies sign off on it.

[Stom]

Its USA, Canada and Scotland in June. The tour should be all about development.
Irrespective of who goes on the Jamboree, we should looking to leave most of the current squad at home, along with a few others who are injured.
Make Ewels captain, include Malins, Odogwu, Marchant, Lawrence, Obano, Martin, Ribbans and Earl from the current 6Ns squad. Add in Smith, J Simmonds, Dombrandt, Randall, Dunn, Hill, Barbeary, Heyes, Thorley plus a smattering of form youngsters.

I kinda agree - it should be about development. But it's always preferable to bring new players in alongside the established where possible - and the Lions will play havoc with our options regardless.
I'd mostly look at starting our usual bench and 3rd choice players; with some new up-and-comers sprinkled in for experience and excitement, with the odd starter to lead the way.


If available, then I'd go with:

LHP: Genge, Obano, West
HK: LCD, Dunn, Barbeary
THP: Stuart, Heyes, Street
LK: Ewels, JHill, Martin, Ribbans
BR: 1 of Ben/Sam/Billy, Earl, Willis, THill, Dombrandt
18
SH: Spencer/Robson, Randall, Mitchell
FH: Ford, Simmonds
IC: Devoto, POC
OC: Slade, Lawrence
WG: Odogwu, Cokanasiga (form allowing), Thorley
FB: Malins, Steward, DeGlanville
15

I think I'd largely go with what you've said, but I'd probably ditch one of the centres to bring in another wing and have Odogwu covering 13 and wing.

de Glanville can also cover centre, too, right?

I'd also think about not bothering with JHill at all...and Willis will unfortunately be likely to miss out, no?

I quite like the look of the following team on paper:

Obano
Dunn
Stuart
Ewels
Ribbans
THill
Earl
Dombrandt
Randall
Ford
Cokanasiga
Devoto
Marchant
Thorley
Malins

Genge, Barbeary, Heyes, Martin, BCurry, Mitchell, Smith, Odogwu

[Scrumhead]

I like that side. Not far off what I was going for, albeit I’d revise my initial picks of Genge and Lawrence following last weekend’s performance.

1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Stuart
4. Ewels
5. Launchbury (capt)
6. Hill
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Thorley
12. O’Conor
13. Marchant
14. Odogwu
15. Malins

16. Barbeary 17. West 18. Williams 19. Ribbans 20. Simmonds 21. Mitchell 22. Devoto 23. Steward

[Banquo]

I like that side. Not far off what I was going for, albeit I’d revise my initial picks of Genge and Lawrence following last weekend’s performance.

1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Stuart
4. Ewels
5. Launchbury (capt)
6. Hill
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Thorley
12. O’Conor
13. Marchant
14. Odogwu
15. Malins

16. Barbeary 17. West 18. Williams 19. Ribbans 20. Simmonds 21. Mitchell 22. Devoto 23. Steward

I'd have Simmonds J on the bench and poor old Ollie Lawrence; been hung out to dry in his two starts this season. I'd think he needs some games, he's got very few senior ones under his belt- I reckon about a fifth of his senior appearances have been for England.

[16th man]

Is there an u20 world champs this year?

If so, I reckon anyone who would qualify for that would be better served getting tournament games in, rather than the summer tour.

[Mikey Brown]

I like the idea of seeing Launch captain England and seeing what a new group of backrows do together.

[Scrumhead]

I like that side. Not far off what I was going for, albeit I’d revise my initial picks of Genge and Lawrence following last weekend’s performance.

1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Stuart
4. Ewels
5. Launchbury (capt)
6. Hill
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Thorley
12. O’Conor
13. Marchant
14. Odogwu
15. Malins

16. Barbeary 17. West 18. Williams 19. Ribbans 20. Simmonds 21. Mitchell 22. Devoto 23. Steward

I'd have Simmonds J on the bench and poor old Ollie Lawrence; been hung out to dry in his two starts this season. I'd think he needs some games, he's got very few senior ones under his belt- I reckon about a fifth of his senior appearances have been for England.

That’s fair. I’m pretty ambivalent on Devoto TBH, so no issue with Lawrence or Joe Simmonds on the bench instead.

I’d be thinking of Dunn playing 80 as hooker (injury permitting) with Barbeary and Simmonds coming on together in the back row - not much of a lineout presence but would be a massive carrying threat. Barbeary as a hooker probably isn’t the way to go for a England until he’s played there at least a few times for Wasps.

[Banquo]

I like that side. Not far off what I was going for, albeit I’d revise my initial picks of Genge and Lawrence following last weekend’s performance.

1. Obano
2. Dunn
3. Stuart
4. Ewels
5. Launchbury (capt)
6. Hill
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Thorley
12. O’Conor
13. Marchant
14. Odogwu
15. Malins

16. Barbeary 17. West 18. Williams 19. Ribbans 20. Simmonds 21. Mitchell 22. Devoto 23. Steward

I'd have Simmonds J on the bench and poor old Ollie Lawrence; been hung out to dry in his two starts this season. I'd think he needs some games, he's got very few senior ones under his belt- I reckon about a fifth of his senior appearances have been for England.

That’s fair. I’m pretty ambivalent on Devoto TBH, so no issue with Lawrence or Joe Simmonds on the bench instead.

I’d be thinking of Dunn playing 80 as hooker (injury permitting) with Barbeary and Simmonds coming on together in the back row - not much of a lineout presence but would be a massive carrying threat. Barbeary as a hooker probably isn’t the way to go for a England until he’s played there at least a few times for Wasps.

Barbeary is a nice problem to have, but it needs sorting imo (though he has time in fairness). I'd think hooker would where he'd have a radical point of difference at the top level, but only if the basics were in place for the job. I don't know if backrow would work out internationally for him, certainly in the short term.

[Digby]

Barbeary could be the real deal who'd settle from the off, or he could be as ready as Varndell who impressed us all in the 7s and got selected by clamour almost

[Stom]

Barbeary could be the real deal who'd settle from the off, or he could be as ready as Varndell who impressed us all in the 7s and got selected by clamour almost

Only one way to find out...

[TheNomad]

1. Obano
2. LCD/Dunn
3. Stuart
4. Ribbans
5. Launchbury (capt)
6. Hill
7. Earl
8. Dombrandt
9. Randall
10. Smith
11. Cokanasiga
12. Lawrence
13. Odogwu
14. Thorley
15. Malins

I think I'm so weary of medium/low paced centres and 10s, that I want to go full throttle the other way, and go hell for leather with loads of running backs and some proper flair.

Two of the most exciting playmakers we've produced in recent times at 10 and 15 (and quick too) and 11 to 14 filled with a some of the quickest, strongest backs we have. Young and mega talented. Very raw, I'll give you, but give them time.

I don't think the pack is that controversial, but I'd quite like some proper brute force at lock and some bigger carriers in the back row. Lacking a jackal perhaps (poor Jack Willis) but certainly threatening

[Digby]

Barbeary could be the real deal who'd settle from the off, or he could be as ready as Varndell who impressed us all in the 7s and got selected by clamour almost

Only one way to find out...

No rush, and there are good players ahead of him. I don't want to break a kid who could have a very useful career, as much as it's tempting to grab at the shiny new thing.

[Peej]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/ ... dApp_Other

Robson's probably out then

[fivepointer]

Decision time on Robson. Does he take him and give him at least one start, or does he move on and look elsewhere?

He isnt going to take Fin Smith so why mention him.

[Stom]

Decision time on Robson. Does he take him and give him at least one start, or does he move on and look elsewhere?

He isnt going to take Fin Smith so why mention him.

Just so that when he doesn't pick anyone on that list, he can simply say he was just naming people who could get into an England squad in the future...

[Banquo]

Thank the lord Joe Simmonds at least gets a mention- his running if anything is underutilised by Exeter as a tangential comment. He's an excellent 10.

[jimKRFC]

As far as hooker goes I don't see a lot of value on LCD going, Eddie knows exactly what he can offer. I'd take Dunn as the starter with Barbeary and Capon as the up & comers. Give Dunn 60 minutes (to show is stuff rather 2 minutes) then 20 minutes to young ones to see how they go. Barbeary could also appeal as a utility 2/8 player.

Personally I'd put Capon ahead of Barbeary at 2 as he's actually played there in the premiership - appreciate that Barbeary offers better carrying, but will be interesting to see if he retains that whilst at 2.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Decision time on Robson. Does he take him and give him at least one start, or does he move on and look elsewhere?

He isnt going to take Fin Smith so why mention him.

Isn't he? He's got history for picking young talents. Maunder, Isiekwe, Hill, Martin, Moore, Redpath while he was still at school.

[Epaminondas Pules]

As far as hooker goes I don't see a lot of value on LCD going, Eddie knows exactly what he can offer. I'd take Dunn as the starter with Barbeary and Capon as the up & comers. Give Dunn 60 minutes (to show is stuff rather 2 minutes) then 20 minutes to young ones to see how they go. Barbeary could also appeal as a utility 2/8 player.

Personally I'd put Capon ahead of Barbeary at 2 as he's actually played there in the premiership - appreciate that Barbeary offers better carrying, but will be interesting to see if he retains that whilst at 2.

LCD going (if he doesn't travel to SA) would be an opportunity to see if he can lift up into a leadership role. He's a very quiet 'does talking through action' type of character.

[fivepointer]

Decision time on Robson. Does he take him and give him at least one start, or does he move on and look elsewhere?

He isnt going to take Fin Smith so why mention him.

Isn't he? He's got history for picking young talents. Maunder, Isiekwe, Hill, Martin, Moore, Redpath while he was still at school.

Never say never i suppose but its highly unlikely. Mind you, he might pick him and Atkinson, and leave Simmonds at home.

[Epaminondas Pules]

Decision time on Robson. Does he take him and give him at least one start, or does he move on and look elsewhere?

He isnt going to take Fin Smith so why mention him.

Isn't he? He's got history for picking young talents. Maunder, Isiekwe, Hill, Martin, Moore, Redpath while he was still at school.

Never say never i suppose but its highly unlikely. Mind you, he might pick him and Atkinson, and leave Simmonds at home.

He's got form, and form for ignoring Smith (M) and Simmonds (especially). Could genuinely go either way. I'd be delighted if Smith (F) got more exposure to the England environment (has been there with select U18's previously), because he has all the attributes to go really far. That said Smith (M) and Simmonds deserve the crack!

[Mikey Brown]

I assumed this was just PR from Eddie to let people know he's actually aware of a need to develop some more half-back options. I'm not sure there's much to be read in to it, is there? Not having the Lions absentees (or resting those established senior players) will be good for him I think, in terms of showing that he's looking at other options more seriously than as an "apprentice".

[Scrumhead]

As far as hooker goes I don't see a lot of value on LCD going, Eddie knows exactly what he can offer. I'd take Dunn as the starter with Barbeary and Capon as the up & comers. Give Dunn 60 minutes (to show is stuff rather 2 minutes) then 20 minutes to young ones to see how they go. Barbeary could also appeal as a utility 2/8 player.

Personally I'd put Capon ahead of Barbeary at 2 as he's actually played there in the premiership - appreciate that Barbeary offers better carrying, but will be interesting to see if he retains that whilst at 2.

Yep. Agreed on this.

The other hooker I like is Blamire at Newcastle. Good basics, a nice turn of pace and good hands too.

[jimKRFC]

As far as hooker goes I don't see a lot of value on LCD going, Eddie knows exactly what he can offer. I'd take Dunn as the starter with Barbeary and Capon as the up & comers. Give Dunn 60 minutes (to show is stuff rather 2 minutes) then 20 minutes to young ones to see how they go. Barbeary could also appeal as a utility 2/8 player.

Personally I'd put Capon ahead of Barbeary at 2 as he's actually played there in the premiership - appreciate that Barbeary offers better carrying, but will be interesting to see if he retains that whilst at 2.

LCD going (if he doesn't travel to SA) would be an opportunity to see if he can lift up into a leadership role. He's a very quiet 'does talking through action' type of character.

True, suppose it depends if Dunn did enough in his 2 minutes to write himself off in Eddies' eyes.