England vs Canada - Sat 10th July

[Banquo]

Watson Vs any powerful outside centre would be a car crash. 13 is a very difficult channel to defend as we saw with North getting caught out in the 6N but using his pace and power to cover across. Watson with significantly less power and experience would have a miserable time. Watson is at home on the wing for England best to leave him there and pick one of Manu, Joseph, Marchant or Lawrence at 13. Of course it's Eddie so get ready for Marcus Smith at 13 this Autumn.

Well yes as per my original response, though it’d be less about being opposite a big lad at 13, more about reading the attack and making the right decision.

Less about big and more about power. You can use speed to cover for positional errors, as seen with North, but not good powerful international 13 is going to b dragged down by an out of position Watson using his pace to cover. Nor any other sub 15 stone winger either. Too much opportunity to burst past an unset tackle and be away.

13 is more about reading defences than tackling your opposite number and about being in the right place with your body in the right position. We agree in principle that you need to be a top defender at 13 and be familiar with it especially at intl level.

[Banquo]

Why are we even talking about positional changes?

It might be a fanciful idea, but I’d just like to see 15 players in their best positions and a sensible 5:3 bench.

13 is the worst place to play under England’s recent gameplan. Hard to tell whether that will change as the attack evolves, but for the most part, any 13 playing alongside the Ford/Farrell axis who isn’t called Manu Tuilagi, has seen very little of the ball and has mostly been used to chase kicks and defend.

I really don’t understand why would we even vaguely contemplate wasting one of our most dangerous wingers there?

In the event that the attack significantly improves, I still wouldn’t be looking at someone to play out of position when we have several, very good options who are actually 13s by trade.

I’m a massive fan of Marchant and I’d like to see him given a proper chance. Not sure how realistic that is though, given his lack of meaningful action over the past couple of weeks.

It’ll be interesting to see where Daly lines up for Saracens. Looking at their squad, I’m assuming it’ll be at 13. He’s always said it’s his preferred position and we all know Eddie is a fan. That could turn up the heat on Slade a bit who mostly flatters to deceive at test level IMO.

WE aren’t. Spiffy mentioned it in passing. Moving on.

[Spiffy]

Quite a bit of Slade- bashing on the board. To be fair to him, it's hard for any 13 to look good playing outside Farrell, either at 12 or 10. Slade is a tad inconsistent. But he is a talented footballer and England have failed to utilize his abilities in the way they play the game.

[Magic_sponge]

I suppose there is a mid ground where he's included in the squad as the 'other' back on the bench (i.e. not scrum or fly half). His ability to cover wing makes him versatile enough, it gives him game time to prove himself, and if nothing else lights a very real fire under Slade to show he can fulfill his potential, or lose his place. Nothing tells you there's a threat to your position than when your number is covered by the bench in one of those 'optional' sub roles.

As much as I do prefer Marchant, I do see the value in him playing his way in as the starting 13 at the international level too.

[Mr Mwenda]

Quite a bit of Slade- bashing on the board. To be fair to him, it's hard for any 13 to look good playing outside Farrell, either at 12 or 10. Slade is a tad inconsistent. But he is a talented footballer and England have failed to utilize his abilities in the way they play the game.

The issue is Slade* failed to shine in a) a cakewalk in b) a match the people who are usually blamed for his unspectacular play are absent.

I reckon both Marchant and Slade will be in the squad for the autumn tests. People are reading too much into these selections. The stuff in training camp will be more important. But I'd love Slade to deliver on the hype from when he broke through.

*I hope when he scores he shouts "here it is, merry Christmas" to himself.

[Banquo]

Quite a bit of Slade- bashing on the board. To be fair to him, it's hard for any 13 to look good playing outside Farrell, either at 12 or 10. Slade is a tad inconsistent. But he is a talented footballer and England have failed to utilize his abilities in the way they play the game.

Yes, I said much the same earlier, and I’m not a huge fan of his skill set at 13 at intl level.The way we play, Slades skills aren’t utilised, and somehow he is expected to find skills that aren’t in his repertoire.

By the way, not sure you can have a pop at Slade for the USA game, when the backline was totally sabotaged by Eddie’s bench choices. Nursing Umaga at 12 and Lawrence on the wing is pretty unenviable.

[Scrumhead]

Maybe. I don’t think he really ‘nursed’ anyone in either game though. Given that was one of the main justifications for his selection, I think both games were a bit of a failed audition to be part of a new ‘leadership group’ (along with Genge, Underhill and err … Ludlow ).

[Banquo]

Maybe. I don’t think he really ‘nursed’ anyone in either game though. Given that was one of the main justifications for his selection, I think both games were a bit of a failed audition to be part of a new ‘leadership group’ (along with Genge, Underhill and err … Ludlow ).

Saddled with, if you prefer

I’m no fan of Slade as an intl 13, but he is not the big issue in the backline/team. And he’s done pretty much what he’s been asked to do and learned to defend well, surprisingly to me. He’s an excellent rugby player…