Swing low, should it go?

[Mr Mwenda]

Don't be obtuse man. Partaking of the vegetable is a far cry from donning a plastic headdress, banging on some pound shop drums, and making woo woo noises you think indigenous North American make.

Out of interest, is there much discussion in NZ about how Maori and other Polynesian cultures are used within rugby? It seems that a fair amount of marketing builds off things like the dances and the like.

[Mr Mwenda]

Anyone know when Exeter officially rebranded as the Chiefs with that badge? They've been like that as long as I've known of them and I always thought it was a weird choice.

[Oakboy]

Anyone know when Exeter officially rebranded as the Chiefs with that badge? They've been like that as long as I've known of them and I always thought it was a weird choice.

According to the DT, they adopted the name in 1999, based on the SW tradition for clubs to refer to their 1st XVs as 'chiefs'.

[Oakboy]

The name doesn't even come from that. It comes from the "chief's team" as in the boss/gaffer. The marketing was just slapped on by someone a few years ago.

The whole thing is so stupid. They could change it with minimal fuss or bother.

Exactly. As I've said previously, if they had reacted sensibly and gone with a name change, they could have claimed the moral high ground and picked sponsorship etc. based on 'doing the right thing in these troubled times'.

[Digby]

Don't be obtuse man. Partaking of the vegetable is a far cry from donning a plastic headdress, banging on some pound shop drums, and making woo woo noises you think indigenous North American make.

Out of interest, is there much discussion in NZ about how Maori and other Polynesian cultures are used within rugby? It seems that a fair amount of marketing builds off things like the dances and the like.

It's why the haka is so protected by the IRB, rugby is basically unknown to the wider TV audience but a lot of people have heard of the haka and it helps hugely to raise the TV audience for rugby.

And it's only a little bit obtuse to raise the issue of 'stealing' vegetables from other cultures, partly I'm only operating on a level informed by Just William so couldn't do obtuse if I tried, but also taking of food (along with other items from a culture) is an issue for a lot of people, others might not share that concern but plenty of people aren't fussed by the goings on at Exeter and yet lines are being drawn

I don't mind the line drawing, we all do it in our own lives, I just tend to think you need more than a concern about people singing and dancing before telling people they're getting something wrong when they're singing and dancing. I don't myself have any Indian headdress, and I'd struggle to replicate any dance, but I do play guitar a little and for preference I'd go with blues and then jazz, and that's not from my culture if it's not part of a melting pot we're free to pick from

[Mellsblue]

but I do play guitar a little and for preference I'd go with blues and then jazz, and that's not from my culture if it's not part of a melting pot we're free to pick from

[Puja]

I don't mind the line drawing, we all do it in our own lives, I just tend to think you need more than a concern about people singing and dancing before telling people they're getting something wrong when they're singing and dancing. I don't myself have any Indian headdress, and I'd struggle to replicate any dance, but I do play guitar a little and for preference I'd go with blues and then jazz, and that's not from my culture if it's not part of a melting pot we're free to pick from

Playing blues and jazz isn't really analagous to dressing up in facepaint and feathers and doing the tomahawk chop. A better comparison would be blacking up and singing Mammie.

Puja

[Digby]

I don't mind the line drawing, we all do it in our own lives, I just tend to think you need more than a concern about people singing and dancing before telling people they're getting something wrong when they're singing and dancing. I don't myself have any Indian headdress, and I'd struggle to replicate any dance, but I do play guitar a little and for preference I'd go with blues and then jazz, and that's not from my culture if it's not part of a melting pot we're free to pick from

Playing blues and jazz isn't really analagous to dressing up in facepaint and feathers and doing the tomahawk chop. A better comparison would be blacking up and singing Mammie.

Puja

I'd be happy to agree the Exeter Chiefs singing is all a little vaudeville

[morepork]

Don't be obtuse man. Partaking of the vegetable is a far cry from donning a plastic headdress, banging on some pound shop drums, and making woo woo noises you think indigenous North American make.

Out of interest, is there much discussion in NZ about how Maori and other Polynesian cultures are used within rugby? It seems that a fair amount of marketing builds off things like the dances and the like.

It's not open season on cultural appropriation, if that is what you are asking. I don't think people from the outside appreciate how prominent Maori culture is in NZ, particularly with the current generation. Maori is an official language, schools compete in massive kapa haka (performing arts) competitions. The use of Ka Mate by the all blacks (and any NZ sporting team) is protected under the Haka Ka Mate Attribution Act 2014, which requires attribution to the iwi, including commercial uses of Ka Mate. No Maori cultural iconography in NZ is used without consultation and approval. In fact, the main issues with inappropriate use arise when overseas entities attempt to use things like the haka for a marketing campaign or such like. During the 2015 world cup a British clothing company ran a "Hakarena" campaign, which mashed together the Macarena song with Ka Mate lyrics and gestures, and involved English rugby players. That is as cringe worthy as an Exeter crowd playing dress up Native American.

[morepork]

but I do play guitar a little and for preference I'd go with blues and then jazz, and that's not from my culture if it's not part of a melting pot we're free to pick from

Fuck. I actually lol'd at that.

[Digby]

Don't be obtuse man. Partaking of the vegetable is a far cry from donning a plastic headdress, banging on some pound shop drums, and making woo woo noises you think indigenous North American make.

Out of interest, is there much discussion in NZ about how Maori and other Polynesian cultures are used within rugby? It seems that a fair amount of marketing builds off things like the dances and the like.

It's not open season on cultural appropriation, if that is what you are asking. I don't think people from the outside appreciate how prominent Maori culture is in NZ, particularly with the current generation. Maori is an official language, schools compete in massive kapa haka (performing arts) competitions. The use of Ka Mate by the all blacks (and any NZ sporting team) is protected under the Haka Ka Mate Attribution Act 2014, which requires attribution to the iwi, including commercial uses of Ka Mate. No Maori cultural iconography in NZ is used without consultation and approval. In fact, the main issues with inappropriate use arise when overseas entities attempt to use things like the haka for a marketing campaign or such like. During the 2015 world cup a British clothing company ran a "Hakarena" campaign, which mashed together the Macarena song with Ka Mate lyrics and gestures, and involved English rugby players. That is as cringe worthy as an Exeter crowd playing dress up Native American.

So there's nobody who thinks the haka shouldn't be used in rugby?

[morepork]

That's not what I was asked. There will no doubt be many, but the issue of it being inappropriate is treated seriously. Those that don't like it would possibly do so out of a greater concern for bigger colonialism issues, something Native Americans don't get much say in with Exeter. The head dress tomahawk chop woo-woo behavior is several more orders of magnitude more excerable than the haka in NZ rugby. That's about all I have to say on it.

[Mr Mwenda]

Don't be obtuse man. Partaking of the vegetable is a far cry from donning a plastic headdress, banging on some pound shop drums, and making woo woo noises you think indigenous North American make.

Out of interest, is there much discussion in NZ about how Maori and other Polynesian cultures are used within rugby? It seems that a fair amount of marketing builds off things like the dances and the like.

It's not open season on cultural appropriation, if that is what you are asking. I don't think people from the outside appreciate how prominent Maori culture is in NZ, particularly with the current generation. Maori is an official language, schools compete in massive kapa haka (performing arts) competitions. The use of Ka Mate by the all blacks (and any NZ sporting team) is protected under the Haka Ka Mate Attribution Act 2014, which requires attribution to the iwi, including commercial uses of Ka Mate. No Maori cultural iconography in NZ is used without consultation and approval. In fact, the main issues with inappropriate use arise when overseas entities attempt to use things like the haka for a marketing campaign or such like. During the 2015 world cup a British clothing company ran a "Hakarena" campaign, which mashed together the Macarena song with Ka Mate lyrics and gestures, and involved English rugby players. That is as cringe worthy as an Exeter crowd playing dress up Native American.

Thanks, that's interesting. I notice that NZ often gets depicted as a place where the settler-indigenous issue has been 'solved', which I'm sceptical about. As I mentioned in an earlier post, somewhere in my reading pile is an anticolonial chapter on NZ, which I know talks about the haka. It's also interesting your mention of generation changes. When I've met Kiwis abroad, they've often left a while before the shift and they seem to often have little knowledge or affinity with Maori NZ culture (not to say they are opposed to it either).

[morepork]

Out of interest, is there much discussion in NZ about how Maori and other Polynesian cultures are used within rugby? It seems that a fair amount of marketing builds off things like the dances and the like.

It's not open season on cultural appropriation, if that is what you are asking. I don't think people from the outside appreciate how prominent Maori culture is in NZ, particularly with the current generation. Maori is an official language, schools compete in massive kapa haka (performing arts) competitions. The use of Ka Mate by the all blacks (and any NZ sporting team) is protected under the Haka Ka Mate Attribution Act 2014, which requires attribution to the iwi, including commercial uses of Ka Mate. No Maori cultural iconography in NZ is used without consultation and approval. In fact, the main issues with inappropriate use arise when overseas entities attempt to use things like the haka for a marketing campaign or such like. During the 2015 world cup a British clothing company ran a "Hakarena" campaign, which mashed together the Macarena song with Ka Mate lyrics and gestures, and involved English rugby players. That is as cringe worthy as an Exeter crowd playing dress up Native American.

Thanks, that's interesting. I notice that NZ often gets depicted as a place where the settler-indigenous issue has been 'solved', which I'm sceptical about. As I mentioned in an earlier post, somewhere in my reading pile is an anticolonial chapter on NZ, which I know talks about the haka. It's also interesting your mention of generation changes. When I've met Kiwis abroad, they've often left a while before the shift and they seem to often have little knowledge or affinity with Maori NZ culture (not to say they are opposed to it either).

Nowhere near resolved.

[Lizard]

Don't be obtuse man. Partaking of the vegetable is a far cry from donning a plastic headdress, banging on some pound shop drums, and making woo woo noises you think indigenous North American make.

Out of interest, is there much discussion in NZ about how Maori and other Polynesian cultures are used within rugby? It seems that a fair amount of marketing builds off things like the dances and the like.

This has been pretty well covered but the Super Rugby Chiefs, for instance, work very closely with the local Iwi (tribe) and get expert Maori input into things like their kit design. It's not just someone drawing a bunch of Maori-looking spirals on a shirt. This is from the official press-release for the 2020 kit launch. If any of it was BS, then you can be sure they would be called out on it:

The front part of the jersey is dedicated to Tūmatauenga (Tū) and qualities of battle. Tū is the figure adorning the centre poupou (pillar). Rurutangiākau is also displayed on the centre poupou.

The dominant figure of Akerautangi is the two-headed taniwhā prominent on the front and the rear of the jersey and wrapped around the centre poupou (pillar).

The front infill also depicts wai (water) the dwelling place of taniwhā and the feature that connects the Chiefs regions.

The back of the jersey is dedicated to Rongomatane (Rongo) and qualities of preparation and planning. Rongo is the figure on the poupou with Akerautangi featuring again wrapped around the poupou.

The infill graphics for the rear of the jersey are kōriri (to flourish) and speak for the need to prepare well for battle.

Gallagher Chiefs Training Jersey:
This jersey is dedicated to Rongomatane (Rongo) and qualities of preparation and planning. Rongo is the figure on the poupou with Akerautangi featuring wrapped around the poupou.

The infill or the rear of the jersey are kōriri (meaning to flourish) and harakeke (meaning cohesion and unity) and speak for the need to prepare well for games.

The three woven harakeke baskets have two meanings. Firstly, they represent, ngā kete o te wānanga (meaning the three baskets of knowledge), telling us that knowledge acquisition is all important in game preparation. Secondly the Māori axiom “Nāu te rourou, nāku te rourou, ka ora ai te iwi” meaning “Your food basket and mine will sustain the tribe”, outlines the importance of individual contribution and nutrition while preparing for battle.

[Mr Mwenda]

Very interesting, tah.

[morepork]

Same as with the Warriors, Lizards favourite sporting team in the world.

[Lizard]

Same as with the Warriors, Lizards favourite sporting team in the world.

Given that Gatland is the new James Bond (0-0-7 record), I am starting to feel a certain affinity with Warriors supporters.

[Which Tyler]

Seems fair.
We've spent the last 12 months saying "Rugby Against Racism" whilst turning a blind eye to a racist logo, bar names, the tomahawk chop and plastic headdresses.
Nobody can make Exeter change their branding, but clubs can ban the racist aspects from their own grounds.

[Puja]

Seems fair.
We've spent the last 12 months saying "Rugby Against Racism" whilst turning a blind eye to a racist logo, bar names, the tomahawk chop and plastic headdresses.
Nobody can make Exeter change their branding, but clubs can ban the racist aspects from their own grounds.

Puja

[Digby]

My response to the woke wank was to go and try and buy something from the Exeter shop, but they've nothing I want for myself, and nothing small enough for the kid it would seem.

[Mr Mwenda]

Good stuff, it was stupid even without the issues. Hopefully Exeter eventually realise there are plenty of other ways to market "chiefs".

[Which Tyler]

Some other, related articles, for those actually interested; with the views of a couple of Native Americans who live in Exeter:

⁠https://earlyamericanists.com/2016/08/ ... themselves⁠

⁠https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... al-1139539⁠

[jimKRFC]

Some other, related articles, for those actually interested; with the views of a couple of Native Americans who live in Exeter:

⁠https://earlyamericanists.com/2016/08/0 ... emselves/⁠

⁠https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... l-1139539⁠

Final edit - found the Devonlive story: https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... nk-1141049

https://www.devonlive.com/news/devon-ne ... al-1139539

[Danno]

My response to the woke wank was to go and try and buy something from the Exeter shop, but they've nothing I want for myself, and nothing small enough for the kid it would seem.

It's not "woke wank" it's pushing back against literal racism. Weird hill to posture on.