England training squad

[fivepointer]

https://www.englandrugby.com/news/artic ... ining-camp

FORWARDS
Jamie Blamire (Newcastle Falcons, 2 caps)
Callum Chick (Newcastle Falcons, 2 caps)
Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 31 caps)
Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 33 caps)
Trevor Davison (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins, 1 cap)
Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers, 30 caps)
Joe Heyes (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Jonny Hill (Exeter Chiefs, 9 caps)
Ted Hill (Worcester Warriors, 2 caps)
Maro Itoje (Saracens, 48 caps)
Jack Kenningham (Harlequins, uncapped)
Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints, 87 caps)
Lewis Ludlam (Northampton Saints, 10 caps)
Lewis Ludlow (Gloucester Rugby, 2 caps)
Joe Marler (Harlequins, 72 caps)
George Martin (Leicester Tigers, 1 cap)
Beno Obano (Bath Rugby, 3 caps)
Gabriel Oghre (Wasps, uncapped)
Sam Riley (Harlequins, uncapped)
Bevan Rodd (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 7 caps)
Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 44 caps)
Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 12 caps)
Sam Underhill (Bath Rugby, 24 caps)

BACKS
Mark Atkinson (Gloucester Rugby, uncapped)
Owen Farrell (Saracens, 93 caps)
George Furbank (Northampton Saints, 4 caps)
Ollie Lawrence (Worcester Warriors, 7 caps)
Louis Lynagh (Harlequins, uncapped)
Max Malins (Saracens, 8 caps)
Joe Marchant (Harlequins, 6 caps)
Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 66 caps)
Raffi Quirke (Sale Sharks, uncapped)
Adam Radwan (Newcastle Falcons, 1 cap)
Harry Randall (Bristol Bears, 2 caps)
Dan Robson (Wasps, 14 caps)
Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 40 caps)
Ollie Sleightholme (Northampton Saints, uncapped)
Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 2 caps)
Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 2 caps)
Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 43 caps)
Anthony Watson (Bath Rugby, 51 caps)
Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 109 caps)

[Raggs]

Why no Ford? I saw it rumoured, but seeing it for real is worrying.

And now you bring in Atkinson from Glaws?

[Digby]

It hadn't even remotely occurred to me George Ford was under pressure for a place. I had him down as a nailed on starter

[Mellsblue]

After seeing the size of the squad and then reading some of the names, I was going to comment how disappointed I was that I hadn’t been called up. Can’t imagine what Ford must feel like. You’ve got to assume there’s a reason beyond just being dropped, surely?!?!?
Delighted for Atkinson that he is in, for obvious reasons, but it seems a good three years too late.

[fivepointer]

Not just Ford who is absent.
No Earl, Billy V, Mako, George either.
Of those involved in the USA/Canada matches there is no Kelly, Cokanasiga, Wells, McNally, Langdon, Hill or Umaga.
There is also no places for Dunn, Williams, Ribbans, Thorley, Mitchell or Isiekwe
But we do have Trewvor Davidson and Mark Atkinson (who i rate but is surely not going to get a cap now)

[Which Tyler]

That's rather depressing.

As it's a non-EPS, informal training squad; might there have been issues with the clubs about player release? 45 players; only Quins have more than 5 in there
If it's an actual indication of the intended EPS, then there's a huge number of WTF? options in there.

[Puja]

One would assume that this is just an initial training squad and that Blamire is not now our second choice hooker. However, I join in the collective what-the-fuck at Ford's absence, especially after he looked back to his absolute world-class best on the weekend.

Interesting to see that we've, at least initially, succeeded in poaching Lynagh.

Puja

[Oakboy]

Smith for Ford. Sam Simmonds for Billy V. This must be the first occasion that I applaud Jones's selections. Will he have been influenced by the Lions selections, though? I'd have expected him to reverse Gatland's direction based on past occasions.

[FKAS]

That's rather depressing.

As it's a non-EPS, informal training squad; might there have been issues with the clubs about player release? 45 players; only Quins have more than 5 in there
If it's an actual indication of the intended EPS, then there's a huge number of WTF? options in there.

Only club with issues over player release if that's the case would be Sarries as they have the most missing out. Shouldn't have effected Ford what with five Tigers included.

It's just a training squad with Eddie looking at expanding his squad options. If the big names aren't back by the Autumn then I'll be shocked.

Re Ford in particular he spent the summer rehabbing and then didn't play much of pre season. Perhaps Eddie has been talking with Steve and has decided just to manage his workload a bit. There's a great chance to have a good look at Smith and get him up to speed, Ford knows what Eddie wants by now.

[Digby]

Have we already named an EPS? if so that does make this squad much less interesting

[Gloskarlos]

Quite bizarre even by Eddie's standards, I am positive about some of the inclusions, Kenningham, Hill, Martin, Radwan, but perplexed by some omissions. What is he trying to say to Billy, Mako and George? am I blind too? no Jamie George?

[Digby]

He could be saying naff all to the Sarries boys. They could well already know they're in the squad for the autumn and they're just not getting a flogging in a training camp.

Which is partly why I wonder if there's already a known EPS

[Puja]

He could be saying naff all to the Sarries boys. They could well already know they're in the squad for the autumn and they're just not getting a flogging in a training camp.

Which is partly why I wonder if there's already a known EPS

Apparently this training camp "will feature just one training session with a heavy focus on off-field activities," which is why he can call up the Lions players during their rest periods (and apparently our new defensive coach isn't even going to be involved as he's not coming to the country till next month). Not really sure what the point of it is, tbh.

Puja

[Digby]

He could be saying naff all to the Sarries boys. They could well already know they're in the squad for the autumn and they're just not getting a flogging in a training camp.

Which is partly why I wonder if there's already a known EPS

Apparently this training camp "will feature just one training session with a heavy focus on off-field activities," which is why he can call up the Lions players during their rest periods (and apparently our new defensive coach isn't even going to be involved as he's not coming to the country till next month). Not really sure what the point of it is, tbh.

Puja

Surely the Lions players have completed their rest periods by now?

ETA - in particular vis a vis training

[Peej]

New season, Eddie still doing Eddie things.

[Danno]

Sounds like a jolly/ice breaker sort of thing for EJ to see whose face will fit. No Ford is a shocker though, even if it is all pretty pointless

[Puja]

He could be saying naff all to the Sarries boys. They could well already know they're in the squad for the autumn and they're just not getting a flogging in a training camp.

Which is partly why I wonder if there's already a known EPS

Apparently this training camp "will feature just one training session with a heavy focus on off-field activities," which is why he can call up the Lions players during their rest periods (and apparently our new defensive coach isn't even going to be involved as he's not coming to the country till next month). Not really sure what the point of it is, tbh.

Puja

Surely the Lions players have completed their rest periods by now?

ETA - in particular vis a vis training

I believe it's a 10 week rest period before playing and a 5 week rest period without any rugby. Just seen your edit - yes, you're right, they're able to train, but it should only be lighter pre-season stuff as they're in week 2.

Puja

[Digby]

Apparently this training camp "will feature just one training session with a heavy focus on off-field activities," which is why he can call up the Lions players during their rest periods (and apparently our new defensive coach isn't even going to be involved as he's not coming to the country till next month). Not really sure what the point of it is, tbh.

Puja

Surely the Lions players have completed their rest periods by now?

ETA - in particular vis a vis training

I believe it's a 10 week rest period before playing and a 5 week rest period without any rugby. Just seen your edit - yes, you're right, they're able to train, but it should only be lighter pre-season stuff as they're in week 2.

Puja

The training rest period is only 2 weeks. After that the remainder of the training rest period is optional. I don't think that's perhaps sensible, but I know what I'd choose between rest and an England camp

[16th man]

Got to agree that this will bear no resemblance to what is called together for the AIs.

Dropping Ford and retaining Farrell, especially after his "contribution" in SA is so gloriously Eddie though.

Wonder if the whole point of this exercise is to ease Smith through the initial shock of having to playmake with ball coming at all angles from Youngs and the stark reality Faz at 12.

[Digby]

Smith plays outside Care, he has practice with a curious passer at 9.

Farrel at 12 would however cut down on a genuine hard running option outside, which he normally gets from 6, 7 and 12 at Quins. Thing there is the only hard running option at 12 is Manu, and at that's not an issue free plan for a number of reasons

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

Louis Lynagh decided he's English then?

[morepork]

Retaining Farrell and dropping Ford is outright weird. There is no compelling reason for it whatsoever.

[Mikey Brown]

I assumed the Ford exclusion was nothing, maybe just wanted to let him get on with his job at Leicester. But this bit from Jones does make it sound more like he’s been dropped. As ever though - who really knows?

“We have left out some experienced players but we’re really clear that the door isn’t closed to them, and we’re looking forward to seeing them work hard to get back into contention.“

Not that it should really matter, but was Cockerill a Ford fan?

[Digby]

Louis Lynagh decided he's English then?

And too with May, Daly, Watson, Malins, Radwan, Odogwu, Cokanasiga, Watson, McConnochie, Nowell, Thorley, OHC, Loader, Hodge all floating around, maybe even a Solomona, it's not nothing England have decided they care

[Puja]

I assumed the Ford exclusion was nothing, maybe just wanted to let him get on with his job at Leicester. But this bit from Jones does make it sound more like he’s been dropped. As ever though - who really knows?

“We have left out some experienced players but we’re really clear that the door isn’t closed to them, and we’re looking forward to seeing them work hard to get back into contention.“

Not that it should really matter, but was Cockerill a Ford fan?

Cockerill became head coach in 2009 and was given the boot from Leicester in Jan 2017, so he was present for Ford's emergence and his first stint. I wouldn't say he was overly a fan - Ford was rotated with Flood and wasn't started in the big games - but it was early in Ford's career and it wasn't like he was averse to him. I know Ford leaving for Bath was not Cockerill's idea and, even if he didn't rate him at Leicester, he got a first hand view of Ford/Eastmond pumping Leicester without lubrication, twice in quick succession, so he knows he's good.

This feels like an Eddie move tbh. He wants to bring in Smith and he's never seen a point in having 3 front-line fly-halves in a training camp, so Smith in, Ford out (Faz, of course, being untouchable because of his intangible qualities). Based on last season's form, it's not a terrible shout (assuming we're accepting the false dichotomy of Ford or Smith), but I think it might be made to look somewhat silly if Ford keeps going as he's going.

Eddie, of course, will not change his mind, no matter how Ford plays. It's become a *thing* now.

Puja