England squad announcement

[Oakboy]

It's just a question of using exceptional pace if it's available and if the player, Simmonds, is on a par with the other candidates in other aspects, for example. IF, Jones can't pick him to play his game, though, he's best left out. I think including him (AND adjusting) raises the ceiling because he offers something extra. All the alternatives have other good characteristics but nobody else has back-like initial acceleration.

To emphasise, IF he ONLY had pace he'd not be worth considering.

[Scrumhead]

I’de be happy to see Simmonds get a proper run. If he can replicate his club form, why wouldn’t we want that?

At the same time, I’m still sceptical. It’s unfair to label him as just pace/acceleration and there is more to his game, but the problem is that his skill set in pretty much all other areas of back row play is quite a way below his competition. He’s not a lineout option and his breakdown work, tackling and work rate aren’t above average.

I’d like to see him prove me wrong.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I see Curry and Underhill as still far and away our best flanker combo and I’m not sure how well Simmonds fits alongside those two.

Depends on the rest of the pack I guess.

[FKAS]

Yeah I see Curry and Underhill as still far and away our best flanker combo and I’m not sure how well Simmonds fits alongside those two.

Depends on the rest of the pack I guess.

Simmonds to play 8 with those flankers would require a complete rebuild in team and how we play. Can't see Jones going for that. He's more likely to get the impact sub role previously held by Earl. The 8 or at least the starting 8 in Eddie's system is required to do a lot of hard carrying, I'm not sure Dombrandt is up to that let alone Simmonds.

[Mr Mwenda]

Was I the only one who thought that Simmonds' lions appearances increased their scepticism? I felt he failed to dominate during the tour games when others were making hay. I'll give him credit for being part of the more enjoyable third test but he was pretty anonymous with that.

[jngf]

Was I the only one who thought that Simmonds' lions appearances increased their scepticism? I felt he failed to dominate during the tour games when others were making hay. I'll give him credit for being part of the more enjoyable third test but he was pretty anonymous with that.

I’m a big fan of Simmond’s play but think you make a fair point - the Lions flankers were smaller than the giants Exeter usually use to accompany Simmonds.

[Mikey Brown]

I thought we’re under the assumption there is going to be some significantly different setup in the pack/backrow given he’s picked Dombrandt and Simmonds (or Curry, but surely not Chick?) and not Tom Willis or Billy?

We have to change something or it just doesn’t make any sense.

Of course we could change nothing and continue to get nothing (new or improved) from guys like Simmonds or Smith. Then at least people will get to say how good Billy and Farrell are, and that we shouldn’t bother with anyone remotely exciting ever again.

[Oakboy]

I thought we’re under the assumption there is going to be some significantly different setup in the pack/backrow given he’s picked Dombrandt and Simmonds (or Curry, but surely not Chick?) and not Tom Willis or Billy?

We have to change something or it just doesn’t make any sense.

Of course we could change nothing and continue to get nothing (new or improved) from guys like Simmonds or Smith. Then at least people will get to say how good Billy and Farrell are, and that we shouldn’t bother with anyone remotely exciting ever again.

Exactly. Pick the same shape and fail again or do something different. IF Farrell, George, Youngs, the Vs, etc. ARE our best players we can anticipate being second again or worse. I'd rather fail trying something new than fail doing the same and, who knows, we could just improve.

[Danno]

I thought we’re under the assumption there is going to be some significantly different setup in the pack/backrow given he’s picked Dombrandt and Simmonds (or Curry, but surely not Chick?) and not Tom Willis or Billy?

We have to change something or it just doesn’t make any sense.

Of course we could change nothing and continue to get nothing (new or improved) from guys like Simmonds or Smith. Then at least people will get to say how good Billy and Farrell are, and that we shouldn’t bother with anyone remotely exciting ever again.

Ignoring your last paragraph: I find your newfound faith disturbing

I'll happily eat these words but I'm keeping my expectations low. Dropping Ford, Mako and (initially) George and calling up players like Davison, Chick and Ludlow (now discarded thankfully) seems like someone running out of ideas, to me., and there will be some Burrell style crooks or Dunn-snubs for some newer faces.

And if you're going to do a volte face on some key players then why o why is the 67% kicker that talks to the ref as though he's been caught trying to buy beer with a fake ID still in the squad and captain.

[Mikey Brown]

Well yes, ignoring the second paragraph would have that effect.

[Danno]

Well yes, ignoring the second paragraph would have that effect.

I think I meant first paragraph, but I'd been entertaining (i.e. making conversation with Mrs Danno's friends) and may have needed to drink a bit.

[Skalyba]

my first post in about 10 years but I feel there's far too much being read into this squad. It seems clear to me that Eddie has decided to look to the world cup (as he said he would) and has decided on the following:

At 2 and 10 give LCD and Smith an overdue run as starters and to give them the space to make the roles their own he's left George and Ford at home (obviously that's changed for LCD now). It also gives him the chance to see who might be 3rd choice hooker, obviously being unconvinced with Dunn.

At 8 and 15 he seems to have decided we need fresh blood and has brought in 3 players for each to fight it out between them

• At

At 9 and 4/5 he's brought in a couple of 'new' faces to try out for the reserve spot

I'd fully expect George and Ford back for the 6 nations, ideally with a new 15 and 8, though I wouldn't write Billy off if non of the new guys impress

[jngf]

Would Martin work in that lock spot alongside Itoje? (or at least as bench cover for Lawes starting at lock -which I really hope he does rather than start at 6 btw)

[Puja]

Would Martin work in that lock spot alongside Itoje? (or at least as bench cover for Lawes starting at lock -which I really hope he does rather than start at 6 btw)

He's not played a game at lock for Leicester yet. I hope he does end up there eventually, as I think that's going to be the best position for him, but it's a bit of an ask to put him there at international level.

Puja

[Scrumhead]

my first post in about 10 years but I feel there's far too much being read into this squad. It seems clear to me that Eddie has decided to look to the world cup (as he said he would) and has decided on the following:

At 2 and 10 give LCD and Smith an overdue run as starters and to give them the space to make the roles their own he's left George and Ford at home (obviously that's changed for LCD now). It also gives him the chance to see who might be 3rd choice hooker, obviously being unconvinced with Dunn.

At 8 and 15 he seems to have decided we need fresh blood and has brought in 3 players for each to fight it out between them

• At

At 9 and 4/5 he's brought in a couple of 'new' faces to try out for the reserve spot

I'd fully expect George and Ford back for the 6 nations, ideally with a new 15 and 8, though I wouldn't write Billy off if non of the new guys impress

Yeah, I think that’s all very possible, although Eddie doesn’t get much of a pass round here so I think we’d be in the minority.

Welcome to the board BTW.

[Scrumhead]

Would Martin work in that lock spot alongside Itoje? (or at least as bench cover for Lawes starting at lock -which I really hope he does rather than start at 6 btw)

He's not played a game at lock for Leicester yet. I hope he does end up there eventually, as I think that's going to be the best position for him, but it's a bit of an ask to put him there at international level.

Puja

Yep. He has the physical attributes to be a lock, but I don’t think he’s a test option until he’s playing there regularly at club level.

[badback]

A lot of the new names in the squad I don’t recognize. Do we have a plan B if Tuilagi (inevitably) breaks down?

[Scrumhead]

To be fair, I don’t think he’s been the plan A for quite a while anyway.

The likelihood is, he’ll play at 13 if Farrell is kept in at 12 or might be used at 12 with Slade at 13.

If Tuilagi isn’t fit to play, it’s more than likely Farrell at 12 with Slade at 13.

Atkinson and Marchant are there for the Tonga game at best.

The ‘new names’ are mostly in the forwards and have mostly done pretty well in the league (Nic Dolly is the Tigers hooker who has scored a lot of tries for example). Some are more serious options than others TBH.

[badback]

Good point….
Farrell and Slade seems to lack a certain go forward…

[Digby]

which is much less of an issue if we play at pace. which gets us back to are we going to build on the pace we saw in the 6N, or are we going to try and steady the ship somewhat. although either way you'd surely want Manu if he's available

[Mikey Brown]

It’s less of an issue once there’s forward momentum, but actually getting to that point without a back who can consistently push the gain-line is still a harder ask.

I can’t wait to see what this pack looks like though, it might be that Faz/Slade works perfectly with it. But it does feel like it’s missing some oomph as a centre pairing, particularly with no strike running winger.

[Scrumhead]

How do you define a ‘strike running winger’? I’d argue there are a few options in the squad that would fit that description.

[Mikey Brown]

Ha. Yeah I knew as soon as I wrote that it was a mistake. Not a very clear or specific term.

EJ clearly has clearly wanted a Yarde/Cokanasiga (or even Nowell) esque option who can add a bit of power through the middle. None of them really (consistently) worked out, but that’s all I meant.

[Oakboy]

Ha. Yeah I knew as soon as I wrote that it was a mistake. Not a very clear or specific term.

EJ clearly has clearly wanted a Yarde/Cokanasiga (or even Nowell) esque option who can add a bit of power through the middle. None of them really (consistently) worked out, but that’s all I meant.

If he was thinking that way would Lynagh not have been his choice ahead of Radwan?

[Puja]

Good point….
Farrell and Slade seems to lack a certain go forward…

I do hate Farrell and Slade as a centre combination. Both are ersatz centres, having started at 10 and moved outwards, and their primary skillset is creating opportunities, rather than taking opportunities someone else has created. They're perfectly fine as an option alongside a "real" centre like Joseph, Marchant, Manu, etc, but put together and it's a case of too many conductors, not enough musicians.

Puja