All Blacks v Wales III, Dunedin: proper indoors rugby

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Mon Jun 20, 2016 1:26 am

Yep, none of this open-or-closed malarkey they have in Cardiff. Yer southerner is a no nonsense type and the roof will remain on.

Shag is not one to muck about with experimental XVs and will not be treating this as a dead-rubber. No one in the All Blacks camp will want to be associated with a first Welsh win in NZ, regardless of the series result. There are still some serious points to be proven from the last couple of weeks. Hansen has said that there is no rebuilding phase and that he thinks the team can be better than 2015. He will not be happy at shipping two consecutive record scores to Wales.

I'm not sure of any injury issues. They're downplaying Cruden's neck but it would be a good excuse to get Sopoaga on the park without officially dropping Cruds. I'm not sure any other changes are necessary to the XV, but Ardie Savea might get on a bit earlier.

Naholo is not the finished article but I think he should be given a chance to keep improving. It's hard for the Bus to regain his place from the stands but that's life sometimes. It could be a good lesson for him.

Personally, I would love to see McKenzie get a run. Unfortunately, the logical place for him would be BB's monogrammed, reserved bench seat. That would be foolish.

Fuck knows what Warren will do with his crowd. He might as well roll the dice with some fresh legs and tell them they can make history if they choose.

I'm not sure if I'm going to able to watch live unfortunately. I haven't got Sky or broadband at my bach. It might be on down at the surf club, perhaps.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 9:45 pm

Hansen rolling the dice, and rolling hard:

All Blacks squad
1. Joe Moody (13)
2. Dane Coles (38)
3. Charlie Faumuina (35)
4. Brodie Retallick (49)
5. Samuel Whitelock (74)
6. Elliot Dixon
7. Sam Cane (33)
8. Kieran Read - captain (86)
9. Aaron Smith (49)
10. Beauden Barrett (38)
11. Julian Savea (42)
12. Ryan Crotty (17)
13. George Moala (1)
14. Ben Smith (50)
15. Israel Dagg (50)

16. Codie Taylor (4)
17. Wyatt Crockett (47)
18. Ofa Tu'ungafasi
19. Luke Romano (23)
20. Liam Squire
21. Tawera Kerr-Barlow (20)
22. Lima Sopoaga (1)
23. Waisake Naholo (5)

I'm not sure about some of this. Sure, give Dixon a start but why then have another debutant as cover? Crockett and Tu'ungafasi off the bench could see our tight 5 be considerably less effective in the final 20. And a Crotty-Moala midfield is uninspiring to say the least. Barrett must feel like he's finally been given the keys to the car only to find out his dad's traded the V8 in for a Corolla. And who's the midfield cover? Is Smith covering centre? Or would Barrett go to 2nd 5/8?

I normally back Shag in his changes - he tends to get it right, and usually has a plan B on the bench. I just don't see it this time. This team can and should do the job but if the wheels get a bit wobbly, it could get very interesting.

Spy · Post by **Spy** » Wed Jun 22, 2016 11:07 pm

Quite a lot to talk about there. Not only a debut for Dixon, but also Liam Squire on the bench. Hansen resists the Ardie-mania sweeping the nation. The forward reserves are very green, but I think the pack will generally be OK.

I would rather have seen Sopoaga get the start with Barrett coming off the bench as he does so well, but I guess we can expect to see Barrett drop to full-back when Sopo comes on at some stage anyway.

Boy, that's a mediocre midfield. Crotty and Moala are Super rugby level players, not an international-class centre pairing. And as Liz points out, nothing really there to back it up. Naholo's no Meryl Streep in terms of versatility.

Will be there for this one - first time at Forsyth-Barr. Looking forward to it.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:22 am

It's a great stadium. Have fun.

Post by **cashead** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:56 am

Here's the Welsh.

1. Rob Evans
2. Ken Owens
3. Tomas Francis
4. Luke Charteris
5. Alun Wyn Jones
6. Ross Moriarty
7. Sam Warburton (C)
8. Taulape Faletau
9. Rhys Webb
10. Dan Biggar
11. Hallam Amos
12. Jamie Roberts
13. Jonathan Davies
14. Liam Williams
15. Rhys Patchell

16. Scott Baldwin
17. Aaron Jarvis
18. Samson Lee
19. Jake Ball
20. Ellis Jenkins
21. Gareth Davies
22. Rhys Priestland
23. Scott Williams

Post by **cashead** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 9:27 am

Lizard wrote:I'm not sure about some of this. Sure, give Dixon a start but why then have another debutant as cover?

If you're not going to give a couple of new caps in a dead rubber test match played at home, then when? Dixon and Squire are both playing well enough, they'll probably be OK. "No new test caps ever, especially in a test match that has no bearing on the outcome of a test series!" It's this kind of thought process that leads to what happened in 1998. You've got to cap these guys some time.

Lizard wrote:Crockett and Tu'ungafasi off the bench could see our tight 5 be considerably less effective in the final 20.

They'll be fine.

Lizard wrote:And a Crotty-Moala midfield is uninspiring to say the least.

They'll be fine, and Moala has been decent at 13 this year. Crotty is a steady pair of hands, even if he may be holding the fort until Ngatai can be looked at properly, but he's not someone who'll lose a test.

Lizard wrote:And who's the midfield cover? Is Smith covering centre? Or would Barrett go to 2nd 5/8?

Ben Smith can play in both midfield positions, and Sopoaga spent a fair amount of his early career at 12.

Spy wrote:Boy, that's a mediocre midfield. Crotty and Moala are Super rugby level players, not an international-class centre pairing.

Can people not fucking do this shit?

Spy wrote:And as Liz points out, nothing really there to back it up.

Wrong.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:31 am

cashead wrote: If you're not going to give a couple of new caps in a dead rubber test match played at home, then when? Dixon and Squire are both playing well enough, they'll probably be OK. "No new test caps ever, especially in a test match that has no bearing on the outcome of a test series!" It's this kind of thought process that leads to what happened in 1998. You've got to cap these guys some time.

I've nothing against a new cap or two, but I'm not a fan of having a debutant as a potential replacement for a debutant.

cashead wrote: They'll be fine.

As long as we are more than a couple of penalty goals ahead

cashead wrote: They'll be fine, and Moala has been decent at 13 this year. Crotty is a steady pair of hands, even if he may be holding the fort until Ngatai can be looked at properly, but he's not someone who'll lose a test.

Agreed, but still uninspiring and hardly a blueprint for the Championship.

cashead wrote: Ben Smith can play in both midfield positions, and Sopoaga spent a fair amount of his early career at 12.

Serious Q: when did Smith last play at 12 and at 13 and at what level?
Less serious Q: isn't Sopoaga still early in his career?

Post by **cashead** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:47 am

Lizard wrote:I've nothing against a new cap or two, but I'm not a fan of having a debutant as a potential replacement for a debutant.

So you don't actually have a logical reason against it, then.

Lizard wrote:As long as we are more than a couple of penalty goals ahead

Nah, they'll be OK.

Lizard wrote:Agreed, but still uninspiring and hardly a blueprint for the Championship.

Fekitoa is playing under an injury cloud, and selecting a safe workman like Crotty, with some leadership experience makes sense when the team's just lost about 700+ tests worth of experience and leadership.

Lizard wrote: Serious Q: when did Smith last play at 12 and at 13 and at what level?
Less serious Q: isn't Sopoaga still early in his career?

Not counting any backline shifts late in a game, or appearances off the bench, Smith has played test rugby at 13 in 2013, against the Wallabies, Japan, France, England and Ireland. He's spent time at 12 for the Highlanders, Otago and the NZ Barbarians in the early 2010s.

Re: Sopoaga, I'm talking age-group level, back-when-he-was-with-Wellington level early.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:01 am

cashead wrote: So you don't actually have a logical reason against it, then.

If you are starting a debutant, it's logical to have an experienced man covering from the bench in case things don't go well.

cashead wrote: Nah, they'll be OK.]

We'll see.

cashead wrote: Fekitoa is playing under an injury cloud, and selecting a safe workman like Crotty, with some leadership experience makes sense when the team's just lost about 700+ tests worth of experience and leadership.]

Yes, they'll do for this test given the squad but starting a late call up replacement is obviously not ideal.

cashead wrote:Not counting any backline shifts late in a game, or appearances off the bench, Smith has played test rugby at 13 in 2013, against the Wallabies, Japan, France, England and Ireland. He's spent time at 12 for the Highlanders, Otago and the NZ Barbarians in the early 2010s.

Re: Sopoaga, I'm talking age-group level, back-when-he-was-with-Wellington level early.

So our midfield cover is 3 years rusty and partly schoolboy level experienced only. Sheesh.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:44 am

Looks like Naholo is covering centre: http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugb ... s-11512977

Post by **morepork** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:18 pm

Man do we have a fetish for putting outside backs in at centre or what?

Wasn't wee Damien MacKenzie in the squad for this series?

Post by **cashead** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:15 pm

morepork wrote:Man do we have a fetish for putting outside backs in at centre or what?

Wasn't wee Damien MacKenzie in the squad for this series?

It looks like Naholo is actually a centre converted to the wing, according to Hansen.

And I think Hansen also said when the squad was announced that not everyone will get game time. I guess McKenzie was the unlucky one. He's still young, and his time will come soon enough.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Thu Jun 23, 2016 8:34 pm

morepork wrote:Man do we have a fetish for putting outside backs in at centre or what?

Wasn't wee Damien MacKenzie in the squad for this series?

Yes. I guess we should be grateful he isn't at centre.

scuzzaman · Post by **scuzzaman** » Fri Jun 24, 2016 7:34 pm

morepork wrote:Man do we have a fetish for putting outside backs in at centre or what?

Wasn't wee Damien MacKenzie in the squad for this series?

That's what I thought, too.

As far as trying out debutantes goes, I think if you expect the ABs to win every game, or you're coaching to that effect, then you wouldn't back up a debutante with another one off the bench. But if you would prefer to win, but your first priority is to use a dead rubber to test some previously unproven talent, then it's actually a good approach. Throw the baby in the deep end, see how he goes.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 3:33 am

I think winning this match should be the priority. It would take another 20 years of always beating Ireland to match a 63 year winning streak. It's worth hanging on to.

Len · Post by **Len** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:03 am

Lizard wrote:I think winning this match should be the priority. It would take another 20 years of always beating Ireland to match a 63 year winning streak. It's worth hanging on to.

Lets punish Wales for being stupid enough to vote leave.

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:34 am

Look for NZ version of this in the crowd:

Post by **cashead** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:43 am

Lizard wrote:Look for NZ version of this in the crowd:

Just a reminder that our government is going toe to toe with the Tories in he cuntishness stakes, and our population voted for them.

Mellsblue · Post by **Mellsblue** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 6:48 am

Lizard wrote:Look for NZ version of this in the crowd:

Haha. This made me spit my tea across the table!!

Len · Post by **Len** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:22 am

Lizard wrote:Look for NZ version of this in the crowd:

Thats actaully brilliant.

Editing a NZ version now

Len · Post by **Len** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 7:32 am

Lizard · Post by **Lizard** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:20 am

A+ for effort but she's a bit small, mate. Upload the full size one - I want to share it about.

zer0 · Post by **zer0** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:28 am

Just grab the image URL.

https://s32.postimg.org/lca1leutf/2016_ ... _25_42.jpg

Mellsblue · Post by **Mellsblue** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:41 am

Dagg's face when Savea dropped that ball. That's twice I've spat my tea out now.

Buggaluggs · Post by **Buggaluggs** » Sat Jun 25, 2016 8:47 am

Stream?

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