Eligibility Rule Change

[SDHoneymonster]

World Rugby has voted through the rule change allowing players to declare for a new country if they've not been capped for three years. Seems to have been done entirely with the Pacific Islands in mind, which I support, but I reckon it could lead to a few interesting consequences - Alex Lozowski could play for Italy in the coming 6N for example, or Cameron Redpath could stand down and wait for three years to declare for France, the land of his birth, to give the world the Dupont/Ntamack/Redpath axis it so sorely needs. On the flipside I genuinely don't know what it will do to actually make the Island nations more competitive - I have a feeling they're about to find out that it's all well and good suddenly having Charles Piutau or Steven Luatua available but that won't help get over either the shambolic and corrupt mismanagement of the game in Samoa and Tonga in particular or the fact that their players would still be spread all over the globe and under pressure from their clubs not to play, meaning cohesion would still be a major issue. It's also not going to stop migration from the islands to New Zealand, Australia and Europe and with the money on offer I suspect many will still aim for a New Zealand, Australia or England cap first. It's window dressing really, but it does at least offer the possibility of Tonga pulling the same sort of heist on NZ that they did in the last rugby league World Cup with a bunch of NRL stars previously playing for Australia and New Zealand, which would obviously be delicious. Someone get on the blower to Lesley Vainikolo.

[Mr Mwenda]

Before the 99 world cup people were switching nations and the issue is people would be first capped for Samoa and then be poached e.g. for NZ. Is the difference now that there is a stand down time? It'll be interesting to see it play out.

[Peej]

Stand down time is now three years, which means that while you might go from Tier 1 to Tier 2, very few players will go up from Tier 2 nations. Which is a good thing.

It's a good point about the chronic mismanagement in the domestic unions, but I imagine it is also hoped that the more senior established professionals might raise standards amongst the other players. But then they play so few games it's hard to know what longer term impact they can have. Fiji, for example, had played 5 games since the World Cup, but Wales had played 20 by the time they met earlier this month.

It's interesting to think about how this might lead to radically different teams being fielded. Tonga for example could put out a backline with Laumape and Fekitoa and Piutau in it, with Fifita in the pack too off the top of my head. But some of these players might not find themselves in such high demand if they are going to be missing large chunks of the season. While the clubs can't block the release during international windows, there might be 'encouragement' to declare themselves ineligible.

[Peej]

Thinking about this a bit more, could the Vunipola's play for Tonga? Hughes for Samoa or Fiji? Julian Savea and Luatua for Samoa? I wouldn't necessarily say any of these players are at their peak, but it will noticeably raise the standard.

Bad news, Folau will be back in international colours.

[16th man]

The intention is good, but it's really hard not to see a raft of players on decent contracts in i.e. France saying "thanks but no thanks" to their theoretical new sides when their clubs say "you're being paid that because you can be relied on for this block of games. If you're not it'll be that/2, or nothing"

[Raggs]

It will have an interesting effect on signings. Those ex-ABs are no longer guaranteed to not have internationals.

Also interesting to me, a good enough dual nationality youngster could play for a nation like Tonga/Samoa etc, improve themselves on the international stage, take a decent 3 year contract and say they'll make themselves unavailable for internationals (just after a RWC for instance), and then see where the wind blows 1 year out from the next rwc. Maybe get an upgrade to a bigger nation, or maybe just fall back.

[Puja]

Stand down time is now three years, which means that while you might go from Tier 1 to Tier 2, very few players will go up from Tier 2 nations. Which is a good thing.

You say that, but I remember Marika Vunibaka who did just that back when you could last do this - impressed for Fiji and then deliberately stood himself down for 3 years to qualify for NZ. And Caucaunibuca tried doing the same thing, despite the rules having changed at that point and it no longer being possible.

Hopefully it will be more one-way from T1 downwards. I would've preferred a stipulation that you could only change to a side that was X places lower than you in the rankings at the point of the switch (although that might make problems for Australians going to play for Tonga depending on results!)

Puja

[Scrumhead]

So when is the 3 year stand-down effective from?

If I’m understanding the ruling correctly, Lozowski, who hasn’t played for England since 2018 could declare for Italy straight away, same for Piutau with Tonga, but some of the other names mentioned like Laumape would have to wait for another couple of years?

[loudnconfident]

Wrt Lozowski, seems OK. Perhaps the new regs will inhibit national sides selecting players once simply to stop them playing for other teams?

[badback]

Thinking about this a bit more, could the Vunipola's play for Tonga? Hughes for Samoa or Fiji? Julian Savea and Luatua for Samoa? I wouldn't necessarily say any of these players are at their peak, but it will noticeably raise the standard.

Bad news, Folau will be back in international colours.

Why bad news? I always thought Folau was a very talented player.

[Cameo]

It's a strange one. My general position is that I am in favour of fairly lax qualification rules but making players declare early. I really don't like the circus when a player is beig chased by two countries nor do I like it when a player hasn't made the grade with the country they really want to play for, and therefore pick a back up option.

These rules will make that worse as it could lead to PI teams being full of NZ rejects. Or someone like Finlay Christie playing for Scotland in a few years after NZ lose interest. However, in the world as it is I see the plus side both in making young players less reluctant to get picked by smaller nations, and strengthening smaller nations.

Am I right that you cannot qualify for your second nation by residency under these rules? That makes sense if so.

[Raggs]

Would someone like Odogwu, play for Italy at 19/20, get a rwc under their belt. Then have a crack at making it for England. If they fail, go back to Italy for the next RWC and try again after? If you're trying that, you can tell the club you sign for that you will be available all the time, better money.

[Scrumhead]

It definitely does create those kind of loopholes …

[Big D]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

[SDHoneymonster]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Most of the players making the noise about it - like Piutau and Luatua - were actually born and raised in NZ anyway!

[Big D]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Most of the players making the noise about it - like Piutau and Luatua - were actually born and raised in NZ anyway!

And made good money off their NZ caps through big money contracts over here. To be fair Luatua played U20s for Samoa.

Happy for the unions (and their fans) but that is about it. And I am saying that as someone's team who will benefit from it as the Glasgow number 8 who played for Oz in the last world cup and will walk into out our team next autumn.

[Cameo]

This might not be a popular thing to say, but I am pleased for the countries but the players celebrating is a bit over the top for me.

They turned their backs on their countries of birth to accept caps knowing they may only get 1 or a handful of caps, or are now will be accepting caps for a team they have family ties to having played for their county of birth. They are not being "freed" they are being given a second chance having not been good enough to win more caps for their first choice.

Most of the players making the noise about it - like Piutau and Luatua - were actually born and raised in NZ anyway!

And made good money off their NZ caps through big money contracts over here. To be fair Luatua played U20s for Samoa.

Happy for the unions (and their fans) but that is about it. And I am saying that as someone's team who will benefit from it as the Glasgow number 8 who played for Oz in the last world cup and will walk into out our team next autumn.

I didn't realise Dempsey was Scots qualified!?

I know what you mean about the players - they weren't forced to play for one of the big teams. On the other hand, a lot of them have deep relationships with their "other nation".

On balance, I think I am on board with the change as strong island teams is worth it, but I don't think it is a no brainer.

[Big D]

Most of the players making the noise about it - like Piutau and Luatua - were actually born and raised in NZ anyway!

And made good money off their NZ caps through big money contracts over here. To be fair Luatua played U20s for Samoa.

Happy for the unions (and their fans) but that is about it. And I am saying that as someone's team who will benefit from it as the Glasgow number 8 who played for Oz in the last world cup and will walk into out our team next autumn.

I didn't realise Dempsey was Scots qualified!?

I know what you mean about the players - they weren't forced to play for one of the big teams. On the other hand, a lot of them have deep relationships with their "other nation".

On balance, I think I am on board with the change as strong island teams is worth it, but I don't think it is a no brainer.

Aye, through a grandparent iirc.

I agree it is a good thing because it benefits the PI unions mainly. Just didn't agree with the idea these players needed "freed".

[Mellsblue]

Listened to an interview with Dan Leo on The Ruck podcast last night. He argued for no stand down period on the basis that players can only change allegiance once and there’s therefore no chance of people going back and forth. He also wanted a one way system, ie tier one to tier two only. Even though he think it’s only a small risk of players moving up tiers he’d like a ban anyway.
He believes the biggest win long term will be increased income for the pacific island nations with the star name players in their teams. He thinks they’ll attract more ££££ due to strengthening their hand in negotiations with both tv and host nations. He’s hopefully this would mean players could earn more with the PI nations and the financial pull of tier one will lessen making this rule change more and more redundant.
His most controversial idea, and one he admitted would never happen, was that test rugby should go back to being amateur allowing players to play where their heart tells them to, not their head/bank manager.
Long story short, he’s happy but would like a couple of tweaks.

[jimKRFC]

Charles Puitau confirms his switch to Tonga - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/59513158