The recreational game

[fivepointer]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... -breakdown

Thought provoking article on the future of the game outside the Premiership.

“We will probably see an NFL-type franchise professional game, a strong game in the universities and a first team club league but you probably won’t see a social and recreational game in the way we understand it,” suggests my informant, citing concussion fears and the increasing physical commitment required at all levels. “I won’t say recreational players are an endangered species but they’re certainly at risk.”

One recent survey suggested a fall from 259,600 active adult players in England in 2016 to only 95,100 at the end of last season.

[Banquo]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2022/ ... -breakdown

Thought provoking article on the future of the game outside the Premiership.

“We will probably see an NFL-type franchise professional game, a strong game in the universities and a first team club league but you probably won’t see a social and recreational game in the way we understand it,” suggests my informant, citing concussion fears and the increasing physical commitment required at all levels. “I won’t say recreational players are an endangered species but they’re certainly at risk.”

One recent survey suggested a fall from 259,600 active adult players in England in 2016 to only 95,100 at the end of last season.

disasterous/crying shame if so.

[Oakboy]

The point of any game, IMO, is that it's structure should be demand-led. Tradition goes only so far in parent/offspring encouragement etc. My main sport for the last 40+ years has been squash, now in similar decline in the UK. In my early days working in finance the planning guidelines were one court per 1500 population. Now, if there is still a guideline (when courts are being demolished not built) I imagine it would be less than one per 15,000.

Rugby can only survive in recreational terms if players want to play. Cricket has similar issues. Even football is struggling at the base level with admin, pitch availability, referees etc.

[Puja]

I think extrapolating from "COVID has made participation numbers drop" to "We will end up with a NFL structure where there's no pros and no community game whatsoever," is a hell of a leap.

I do suspect that there will be a fair few teams that fail through lack of players/money over the next few year - participation in sports in this country generally has been going down and, just anecdotally, there are teams around here that have gone from operating three teams to two, to one and a bit over the last 20 years. However, on the flip side, my club still has three sides (our 3rds put out a 24-man squad on Saturday!), a thriving youth section from U5s upwards, and is in its first season of having a fully-fledged Ladies side. So I think it's a bit early to start proclaiming the death of the community game is imminent.

Puja

[padprop]

There's simply too many games for it to be a viable hobby for a lot of people. Having played full seasons at level's 5 and 6, the amount that is asked of a player for no gain other then playing for your mates is simply too much. It works when you are young, rugby mad and have less commitments but is very difficult as you get older.

22, 24 game seasons (+ Cup games) is too much in this era of rugby where even in the lower levels players are so much more physical (There's packs in level 5/6 than weigh more than those in the premiership). So we now have more games than we used to in the 80's, the players are much bigger, and ball in play time is greater. The stress on the body and time devotion just doesn't outweigh the highs for most people.

Also factor in the feeling that you are letting down your mates if you don't make yourself available for every game, further leading to more stress.

Contrast this with uni rugby, with 7/8 team leagues. 12, 14 games a season and meaningful 2's matches that can even play 1XV's of other worse uni's if they are in the same league. This model would make much more sense to be going forward. A full contact sport should not be practiced 3 times a week for 24 weeks (+ preseason).

[francoisfou]

I count myself fortunate to have played when I did, beginning with school rugby from 1960, the town colts side in 66/67 and then senior sides from the 1st XV, 2nds, 3rd and extra 3rd, 4th and 5ths until I stopped playing in 1986. But how times have changed. My last club, in Leicestershire, sadly now only fields one side, and like many others, has had financial difficulties, and I can’t see that changing in my lifetime. I hark back to when all three pitches were in use on a Saturday afternoon and the atmosphere clubhouse post match would be wonderful with many an evening rolling home late to the wrath of the missus. Happy days!

[Mr Mwenda]

If my hometown is anything to go by, community clubs will focus predominantly on youth rugby. My team has huge and seemingly ever expanding mini and junior sections. This is in contrast to senior men who are down to two sides when they get the numbers. There are now two women's teams, mind.

The clubhouse was redone a few years back and has an unquestionably nicer and more welcoming atmosphere, good for families. I do get a bit sad though, I miss getting wankered and trying not to fall on the carpets rendered slick by 50 years of beer, gags and presumably other secretions.

[Puja]

There's simply too many games for it to be a viable hobby for a lot of people. Having played full seasons at level's 5 and 6, the amount that is asked of a player for no gain other then playing for your mates is simply too much. It works when you are young, rugby mad and have less commitments but is very difficult as you get older.

22, 24 game seasons (+ Cup games) is too much in this era of rugby where even in the lower levels players are so much more physical (There's packs in level 5/6 than weigh more than those in the premiership). So we now have more games than we used to in the 80's, the players are much bigger, and ball in play time is greater. The stress on the body and time devotion just doesn't outweigh the highs for most people.

Also factor in the feeling that you are letting down your mates if you don't make yourself available for every game, further leading to more stress.

Contrast this with uni rugby, with 7/8 team leagues. 12, 14 games a season and meaningful 2's matches that can even play 1XV's of other worse uni's if they are in the same league. This model would make much more sense to be going forward. A full contact sport should not be practiced 3 times a week for 24 weeks (+ preseason).

That's a good point - it is a big commitment and, while it's one I'm happy to make, there are people for whom losing 3-4 Saturdays of their month is quite a lot. Might be better to make it every other week at the lower levels?

On the bolded bit, I will note that I weigh more than most Premiership players, but not in a good way.

Puja

[Danno]

On the bolded bit, I will note that I weigh more than most Premiership players, but not in a good way.

Puja

Excuses excuses, it didn't stop Andy Goode.

[fivepointer]

There's simply too many games for it to be a viable hobby for a lot of people. Having played full seasons at level's 5 and 6, the amount that is asked of a player for no gain other then playing for your mates is simply too much. It works when you are young, rugby mad and have less commitments but is very difficult as you get older.

22, 24 game seasons (+ Cup games) is too much in this era of rugby where even in the lower levels players are so much more physical (There's packs in level 5/6 than weigh more than those in the premiership). So we now have more games than we used to in the 80's, the players are much bigger, and ball in play time is greater. The stress on the body and time devotion just doesn't outweigh the highs for most people.

Also factor in the feeling that you are letting down your mates if you don't make yourself available for every game, further leading to more stress.

Contrast this with uni rugby, with 7/8 team leagues. 12, 14 games a season and meaningful 2's matches that can even play 1XV's of other worse uni's if they are in the same league. This model would make much more sense to be going forward. A full contact sport should not be practiced 3 times a week for 24 weeks (+ preseason).

Agree with most of this.
The point about it becoming harder as you get older is definitely true. If you have family then playing every week along with training can be a strain. The weekend may require you to do family orientated things and many have work commitments. Plus, the game is harder and faster and does take its toll. I've known several lads in their 20's who gave up due to them not wanting to risk injury as that might prevent them working.
Rugby can be a thrill at 18,19, 20 but at 26 or 27 you perhaps have different priorities if you do play at a lower level.

[Mr Mwenda]

There's also a lot of alternative sport, hobby and other entertainment options these days than in times past I suspect.

[Oakboy]

There's also a lot of alternative sport, hobby and other entertainment options these days than in times past I suspect.

Good point that, starting from schools offering a wide variety of sport 'sampling' whereas decades back sport was rugby or football in winter with athletics or cricket in summer.

[Raggs]

Keeping my fingers crossed that I've successfully rejoined the ranks of players, as of this evening.

Struggle for numbers for our 2nds at times though, but that's not new from the last few years.

[Cameo]

Also factor in the feeling that you are letting down your mates if you don't make yourself available for every game, further leading to more stress.

This bit is interesting as, though it doesn't make sense, it is human nature.

I reached a stage when I didn't want to train twice a week (I wasn't trying to make it pro - why the constant need to improve if I wasn't finding it fun), but still wanted to play. In an ideal world that would just mean I would get pushed down the teams as long as there were others willing to step up. In reality it leads to guilt (and external pressure) that I am letting the team down. The problem wasn't me (I am still willing to play after all), the problem is the club no longer has a long line of young keen players to take my place and let me take my rightful place in the social threes/fours.

It is a very tricky balance for a club between focusing on the high(ish) performance element on the one hand and, on the other, making it a good place for players who truly do just want to have some fun. Ideally you can have separate "training" sessions, with proper training for some and once a week touch or other games for others, but that only works if you have the numbers. There is also a risk that youngsters get pulled away from the proper training as it is less intimidating to just turn up and play touch rather than put yourself out there and say you want to take it seriously.

[Gloskarlos]

Echo most of what has been said.

I lived ate and breathed rugby from the age of 11, played whenever I could despite injury, representative stuff at U16's gave me a real taste of what was possible and growing up in Gloucester it was pretty much rugby or nothing, detentions handed out to any boy at my school caught with a round ball even in the playground. Went through Uni at Cardiff still playing but more injury prone, then more or less stopped when I graduated, as others have said, new commitments took over. I had moved away from home with my first job and finding a new club to join was not a priority. Roll on a few years and I took my son down to Old Leamingtonians aged 5 and then became coach. Son is still playing now (14 end of this month) I am still coaching and play for the Vets side, which is more or less a game every month to 6 weeks which suits us decrepit players down to the ground. I also now coach the South Warks team, and referee. In summary I don't think once you are in, rugby really leaves you or you leave it. There's always some good involvement to be had - even if its just turning up at whatever club and supporting, the beer money is (hopefully) making next years crop more sustained. I'm 48 now, and hoping to play for another 4 years in the hope that I can get a single game with my Son once he hits 18. At which point I'll happily hang up the boots, but will perhaps continue to referee. OL's is seemingly following the same pattern, a 1st and second XV, a barbarians XV and a VETS XV regularly put out, One women's XV but more importantly a fully thriving M&J section. Huge. I am aware of local clubs however who have had age groups fold recently due to lack of numbers. So it's not all positive.

[Raggs]

Think where we are really struggles with the pipeline, since there's no university here, and rugby still tends to be a bit more of a "posh" game, where kids are expected to go to uni. Then not many will move back here since there's more exciting places to be (and better job prospects quite often).

[Scrumhead]

I was gearing up for my debut for a new club tomorrow but the game’s been cancelled … the curse of amateur rugby strikes again …

[Scrumhead]

Update on my last post. Played half a game for my debut and did well enough to start in the next game, which lasted 5mins. I was guarding a ruck, turned my head when the scrum half passed the ball away and a guy blindsided me, lifted me up and dumped me on my shoulder.

I now have a grade 4 shoulder separation that will ‘almost certainly’ require surgery. Anyone had shoulder surgery before?

In truth, I think that’s me formally retired now but interested to hear if anyone has had surgery and can give any advice on recovery.

Thankfully it’s my left side so I’m still semi functional.

[Mr Mwenda]

Update on my last post. Played half a game for my debut and did well enough to start in the next game, which lasted 5mins. I was guarding a ruck, turned my head when the scrum half passed the ball away and a guy blindsided me, lifted me up and dumped me on my shoulder.

I now have a grade 4 shoulder separation that will ‘almost certainly’ require surgery. Anyone had shoulder surgery before?

In truth, I think that’s me formally retired now but interested to hear if anyone has had surgery and can give any advice on recovery.

Thankfully it’s my left side so I’m still semi functional.

Ref do anything?

[Scrumhead]

Nope. In fairness, barely anyone saw it - like me, they’d followed the ball.

With a TMO it would have been a straight red. I didn’t even see who did it. The guy unsurprisingly disappeared while I was on he floor.

[Gloskarlos]

I've had surgery on both my shoulders - and probably need another on my right shoulder now following a few crunches in vets games.

Depends what the surgery entails - I have had two 'sub acrimonial decompressions' and a broken collar bone, More or less full recovery with plenty of physio, time to heal and the adherence to the right physio are absolutely key. I'm still playing but I do wonder how much longer for.

[Raggs]

Update on my last post. Played half a game for my debut and did well enough to start in the next game, which lasted 5mins. I was guarding a ruck, turned my head when the scrum half passed the ball away and a guy blindsided me, lifted me up and dumped me on my shoulder.

I now have a grade 4 shoulder separation that will ‘almost certainly’ require surgery. Anyone had shoulder surgery before?

In truth, I think that’s me formally retired now but interested to hear if anyone has had surgery and can give any advice on recovery.

Thankfully it’s my left side so I’m still semi functional.

That sucks, sorry mate!

Being one of the older ones on the pitch quite often (not always), I always call out the kids I see doing dodgy shit. It's a game, we all want to play again the following week etc and don't need to kill each other with stupid off the ball shit.

Can't help you with the surgery thing, damaged both my shoulders doing jiu jitsu, but neither to the stage that required surgery.

[Scrumhead]

So basically my collar bone has separated from the rest of my shoulder joint and the ligaments are either completely ruptured or badly torn.

I did it 3wks ago but only just got the x-ray. Long story short, I underestimated the severity and I only ended up going to he hospital when I couldn’t get physio without an x-ray. The doctor was ‘amazed’ that I’m getting by and have almost a full range of motion (albeit not without pain) but they’re referring me to an orthopaedic specialist as they think I’m a grade 4 and should get surgery.

It’s a bit of a dilemma. I feel like I probably should go ahead (I have good private medical options through work), but the thought of having one arm out of action for quite a while is not appealing when currently I’m pretty functional.

[Puja]

I'm possibly going to need surgery on my shoulder - depends on the results of some MRIs.

Still playing on it though, much to the disgust of my physio. Doesn't hurt unless I do *this*.

Puja

[FKAS]

I've had surgery on both my shoulders - and probably need another on my right shoulder now following a few crunches in vets games.

Depends what the surgery entails - I have had two 'sub acrimonial decompressions' and a broken collar bone, More or less full recovery with plenty of physio, time to heal and the adherence to the right physio are absolutely key. I'm still playing but I do wonder how much longer for.

This. Finding the right people to get you right afterwards makes a huge difference. After buggering my knees I couldn't kneel down to play with my daughter, docs basically said as the ligaments weren't torn I was on my own. Found a local PT who's mildly obsessed with how the body works. Rebuilt strength so that the muscles reduce strength on knees etc. Back to running, cycling, playing with daughter all fine. Sadly don't think I can risk rugby again.

Hope the surgery goes well but definitely investigate who's local that can get you back as the NHS can only do so much.