Snap General Election called

[Stom]

All calculated. He doesn't think enough of his MPs will rebel so he can throw a few dead cats about and some of this will stick. If nothing else, it changes the narrative for a few days away from party gate.

Despicable. Will it work, I wonder? Some people will be willing to believe it, some will be disgusted at Johnson's tactics. The QAnon crew were never going to vote for Starmer anyway.

In the end though, it's a desperate tactic, no doubt a line Johnson would have preferred to save till a general election. So he's shot that bolt.

He is gambling on the public having no attention span and forgetting about party gate, particularly if some of the mud sticks. Most of the anti-vax conspiracy nutters won't be influence either way but would probably like the excuse to get (more) angry at someone like Starmer. I suppose the question is that having crossed one line, how many more will he cross to hold onto power? I sense that the May elections will be interesting, but the next GE will be very dirty.

Whilst anecdotal, I don't get the sense that the anger around party gate is dropping. Some people don't care and will never care, but there is something about us all being in it together that Boris has just driven a bulldozer through. That might always be a load of rubbish but the perception that we are all following the same rules is important and Boris has destroyed that. With cost of living increases about to hit very hard and many businesses not looking forward to paying the additional NI after such significant disruption, things are about to get a lot worse for Boris.

The big question is I suppose when we get to the next GE, can Starmer and Labour, plus other opposition parties and I still think there is merit in an agreement with the Liberals and SNP, exploit this to the full? If Labour can regain the red wall and hold the big cities and the Liberals can make headway in parts of the country that won't vote Labour but might vote Liberal then that 80 seat majority suddenly looks very vulnerable.

I think you’re under doing how big a grip this is. There are a lot more then you might think, while there are a lot of Tory voters who would rather vote for a liar then for the communists taking their pension away.

[Sandydragon]

Despicable. Will it work, I wonder? Some people will be willing to believe it, some will be disgusted at Johnson's tactics. The QAnon crew were never going to vote for Starmer anyway.

In the end though, it's a desperate tactic, no doubt a line Johnson would have preferred to save till a general election. So he's shot that bolt.

He is gambling on the public having no attention span and forgetting about party gate, particularly if some of the mud sticks. Most of the anti-vax conspiracy nutters won't be influence either way but would probably like the excuse to get (more) angry at someone like Starmer. I suppose the question is that having crossed one line, how many more will he cross to hold onto power? I sense that the May elections will be interesting, but the next GE will be very dirty.

Whilst anecdotal, I don't get the sense that the anger around party gate is dropping. Some people don't care and will never care, but there is something about us all being in it together that Boris has just driven a bulldozer through. That might always be a load of rubbish but the perception that we are all following the same rules is important and Boris has destroyed that. With cost of living increases about to hit very hard and many businesses not looking forward to paying the additional NI after such significant disruption, things are about to get a lot worse for Boris.

The big question is I suppose when we get to the next GE, can Starmer and Labour, plus other opposition parties and I still think there is merit in an agreement with the Liberals and SNP, exploit this to the full? If Labour can regain the red wall and hold the big cities and the Liberals can make headway in parts of the country that won't vote Labour but might vote Liberal then that 80 seat majority suddenly looks very vulnerable.

I think you’re under doing how big a grip this is. There are a lot more then you might think, while there are a lot of Tory voters who would rather vote for a liar then for the communists taking their pension away.

The anti-vax nutters are a minority and they also inhabit both sides of the political spectrum. Nothing vaguely approaching rational thought is going to deter or influence them.

There are plenty of life time conservatives who I wouldn't categorise as anti-vax nutters who will never vote Labour. But then they may decide not to vote at all, or could be tempted to vote Liberal. The Conservatives will retain a lot of seats in the rural areas, even Blair only made limited inroads into the likes of East Devon in his 97 victory, which Im sure Labour will know and will target those that are ripe for the taking.

[Stom]

He is gambling on the public having no attention span and forgetting about party gate, particularly if some of the mud sticks. Most of the anti-vax conspiracy nutters won't be influence either way but would probably like the excuse to get (more) angry at someone like Starmer. I suppose the question is that having crossed one line, how many more will he cross to hold onto power? I sense that the May elections will be interesting, but the next GE will be very dirty.

Whilst anecdotal, I don't get the sense that the anger around party gate is dropping. Some people don't care and will never care, but there is something about us all being in it together that Boris has just driven a bulldozer through. That might always be a load of rubbish but the perception that we are all following the same rules is important and Boris has destroyed that. With cost of living increases about to hit very hard and many businesses not looking forward to paying the additional NI after such significant disruption, things are about to get a lot worse for Boris.

The big question is I suppose when we get to the next GE, can Starmer and Labour, plus other opposition parties and I still think there is merit in an agreement with the Liberals and SNP, exploit this to the full? If Labour can regain the red wall and hold the big cities and the Liberals can make headway in parts of the country that won't vote Labour but might vote Liberal then that 80 seat majority suddenly looks very vulnerable.

I think you’re under doing how big a grip this is. There are a lot more then you might think, while there are a lot of Tory voters who would rather vote for a liar then for the communists taking their pension away.

The anti-vax nutters are a minority and they also inhabit both sides of the political spectrum. Nothing vaguely approaching rational thought is going to deter or influence them.

There are plenty of life time conservatives who I wouldn't categorise as anti-vax nutters who will never vote Labour. But then they may decide not to vote at all, or could be tempted to vote Liberal. The Conservatives will retain a lot of seats in the rural areas, even Blair only made limited inroads into the likes of East Devon in his 97 victory, which Im sure Labour will know and will target those that are ripe for the taking.

Firstly, are they that small a minority?

Secondly, they reply come from both sides? Or have you simply been confused by liberal and libertarian? Don’t worry, I was, too, but a love for alternative education and medicine does not a liberal make. Usually, it makes a libertarian, pretty much on the right. Pretty far on the right on normal times.

But we’ve had this pointless argument before, about how far to the right the world has moved.

Anti vaxx may not be exclusively right wing, but it is overwhelmingly right wing and is not the small minority you make it out to be.

[Sandydragon]

Stom,
Not going to quote you as the message is already sizeable.

I would agree that its more right than left, but equally I don't see Piers Corbyn as occupying space anywhere near the right of the political spectrum. When it comes to extremists, there can be some odd overlaps in thought.

But I am wary about including in the anti-vax movement those who are nervous about the vaccine. There are a vocal minority who see this as a means for the government, or Bill Gates, to control their minds. They will probably support most conspiracies. Then there are those who are wary about the vaccination as they don't see the risk from covid as being that high for them vs any potential risk from the vaccine. A very different perspective and I would suggest that the bulk of those who haven't had the vaccine would fall into the latter category, rather than those who are professional conspiracy theorists.

You can take this too far, since there will doubtless be some traditional Tory voters who will only ever vote blue yet are vaccinated and think Boris has done a wonderful job of managing the pandemic. The assault on Starmer appears to have been conducted by some individuals with links to extreme anti-vax groups - you can certainly make some assumptions about them but the wider you draw the net the more difficult it is to group people.

[morepork]

There is good coin to be made in anti-vax, particularly if it can be partnered with state-directed mandates and all manner of scary big government. People susceptible to that stuff are not few in number. Bear in mind that they elected DJT in 2016 and stormed the US capitol one year ago. Politicians are increasingly allying themselves to anti-diversity by way of screaming about vaccine mandates. It's a big problem for society.

[Sandydragon]

There is good coin to be made in anti-vax, particularly if it can be partnered with state-directed mandates and all manner of scary big government. People susceptible to that stuff are not few in number. Bear in mind that they elected DJT in 2016 and stormed the US capitol one year ago. Politicians are increasingly allying themselves to anti-diversity by way of screaming about vaccine mandates. It's a big problem for society.

So did they vote for DJT because they were anti-vexers at heart or did they embrace anti-vax because of DJT?

If you take the UK version, then you could argue that Brexit is a good indicator, but then there are many Brexiteers who have happily had the vaccination and whilst I don't agree with them on this issue, are far from being extremists. Whilst millions voted for Brexit, or for Trump for that matter, not all are violent extremists, or even just extreme. The venn diagrams we draw can often be misleading.

[morepork]

There is good coin to be made in anti-vax, particularly if it can be partnered with state-directed mandates and all manner of scary big government. People susceptible to that stuff are not few in number. Bear in mind that they elected DJT in 2016 and stormed the US capitol one year ago. Politicians are increasingly allying themselves to anti-diversity by way of screaming about vaccine mandates. It's a big problem for society.

So did they vote for DJT because they were anti-vexers at heart or did they embrace anti-vax because of DJT?

If you take the UK version, then you could argue that Brexit is a good indicator, but then there are many Brexiteers who have happily had the vaccination and whilst I don't agree with them on this issue, are far from being extremists. Whilst millions voted for Brexit, or for Trump for that matter, not all are violent extremists, or even just extreme. The venn diagrams we draw can often be misleading.

Yeah, yeah, good people on both sides. People that voted Trump are wealthy and want to pay no tax and/or racist. In the middle of a global public health crisis, if your legislative priority is banning the teaching of history people of colour and restricting access to voting, then you are probably on the wrong side of history. If you can hitch that white grievance to an anti-vaxx megaphone and scream about all of it, the coin will flow.

[Sandydragon]

There is good coin to be made in anti-vax, particularly if it can be partnered with state-directed mandates and all manner of scary big government. People susceptible to that stuff are not few in number. Bear in mind that they elected DJT in 2016 and stormed the US capitol one year ago. Politicians are increasingly allying themselves to anti-diversity by way of screaming about vaccine mandates. It's a big problem for society.

So did they vote for DJT because they were anti-vexers at heart or did they embrace anti-vax because of DJT?

If you take the UK version, then you could argue that Brexit is a good indicator, but then there are many Brexiteers who have happily had the vaccination and whilst I don't agree with them on this issue, are far from being extremists. Whilst millions voted for Brexit, or for Trump for that matter, not all are violent extremists, or even just extreme. The venn diagrams we draw can often be misleading.

Yeah, yeah, good people on both sides. People that voted Trump are wealthy and want to pay no tax and/or racist. In the middle of a global public health crisis, if your legislative priority is banning the teaching of history people of colour and restricting access to voting, then you are probably on the wrong side of history. If you can hitch that white grievance to an anti-vaxx megaphone and scream about all of it, the coin will flow.

Yeah, well I'm not going to demonise anyone because they voted Republican. I'm sure plenty of Republican voters are racist and may be wealthy. Im also sure that many voted for Trump because the Democrats stopped taking them seriously and ignored them. Same thing happened here with the Red Wall. Writing off a large percentage of the electorate as racist is frankly idiotic when there are a multitude of factors at play in how people vote.

[Which Tyler]

People that voted Trump are wealthy and want to pay no tax and/or racist.

I think you forgot the huge swathe of "politically lazy who simply don't question what Fox News tells them"
And another huge swathe who just believe(d) that there's basically not a lot of difference between 2 corporate shills - neither of whom are interested in representing their personal interests.

[morepork]

"Frankly idiotic"


Yeah, nah. Ever since the Civil Rights Act, the Southern Strategy has been the way forward for aggrieved white culture warriors propped up by disproportionate representation in the electoral college. That is the key issue for how these people vote. Not being willing to view current grievances through an appropriate historical lens is, fankly idiotic.

[Sandydragon]

People that voted Trump are wealthy and want to pay no tax and/or racist.

I think you forgot the huge swathe of "politically lazy who simply don't question what Fox News tells them"
And another huge swathe who just believe(d) that there's basically not a lot of difference between 2 corporate shills - neither of whom are interested in representing their personal interests.

And the rust belt.

[Zhivago]

"Pupils shouldn’t be criticising Boris Johnson in class, says education secretary"

[Zhivago]

Johnson to Brownlow, 12.59pm 29 November 2020

Hi David
I am afraid parts of our flat are still a bit of a tip and am keen to allow Lulu Lytle to get on with it. Can I possibly ask her to get in touch with you for approvals ?
Many thanks and all best
Boris
Ps am on the great exhibition plan Will revert


Brownlow to Johnson, 3.44pm

Afternoon Prime Minister, I hope you’re both well
Sorry for the delay I was out for a walk and didn’t have my ‘work’ phone with me.
Of course, get Lulu to call me and we’ll get it sorted ASAP !
Thanks for thinking about GE2
Best wishes
David

Brownlow to Johnson, 4.10pm

I should have said, as the Trust isn’t set up yet (will be in January) approval is a doddle as it’s only me and I know where the £ will come from, so as soon as Lulu calls we can crack on - David

[morepork]

Guy is just a complete fuckwit. He is going to burn the fucking house down just to protect his privilege. Let's compromise public health and the economy so I can have drinkies whenever I please.

[Son of Mathonwy]

Trying to embarrass the PM, the Independent is missing a trick by not calling the Typhoon a Eurofighter:

https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-c ... 18309.html

[Son of Mathonwy]

The Ukraine invasion is mostly good news for Johnson as it's undeniably more serious than parrygate. Also, I imagine the fear of war can be stoked enough (if not by him, then by the papers) to bring scared voters to rally round the flag.

On the negative side there is the Russian funding of the Tory party, but I guess they might have to adjust to scaling this back a bit. I imagine Johnson will attempt to continue his usual cakeism by appearing to be tough with sanctions, but not really applying anything that hurts too much.

[Sandydragon]

The Ukraine invasion is mostly good news for Johnson as it's undeniably more serious than parrygate. Also, I imagine the fear of war can be stoked enough (if not by him, then by the papers) to bring scared voters to rally round the flag.

On the negative side there is the Russian funding of the Tory party, but I guess they might have to adjust to scaling this back a bit. I imagine Johnson will attempt to continue his usual cakeism by appearing to be tough with sanctions, but not really applying anything that hurts too much.

This is a gift for Johnson. Act I’m a statesmanlike manner and people forget the antics.

I do t think this will save him in the long term but it certainly kills off the likelihood of a leadership challenge too soon.

[Which Tyler]

So...
Priti Patel, who has previously been sacked for compromising national security... Not a security risk.
Boris Johnson, who plays tennis with Russian Oligarchs, and evades his security details to party with a former KGB agent... Not a security risk.
Tory party in general, who suck at the teet of Russian money, and suppress reports into Russian interfering with British elections... Not a security risk.

Kier Starmer, barrister, former head of the Crown Prosecution Service... Security risk.

[Which Tyler]

Boris Johnson, who plays tennis with Russian Oligarchs, and evades his security details to party with a former KGB agent... Not a security risk.

I see this foreign billionaire is back in the news again.

So what "we" are saying, is that Johnson's close relationship with a Russian Oligarch, son of a (former) senior KGB officer, and close friend of Putin; close enough for Johnson to explicitly evade security in order to attend an undisclosed party with, who funded Johnson's London Mayoral campaign, and who's newspaper is about the most avidly pro-Johnson in the land, who sits in the House of Lords at Johnson's suggestion (but he played no part in it, despite suggesting it, and being the only person who thinks it's a good idea) - going explicitly against MI6's advice on the principal that he's a security risk (unlike Patel and Johnson who are... erm... already known security risks - but just like Kier Starmer, who... isn't) - who appears to be the only Russian Oligarch in London who doesn't donate money to the tory party, and would potentially be extremely embarrassed if the Russia Report ever saw the light of day...

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/ ... a2628d3df0

https://www.itv.com/news/2022-03-07/pm- ... ny-lebedev

We're saying that this is all a mountain out of a molehill, pure coincidence, there's nothing to see here. It's not remotely compromising of Boris Johnson, who is absolutely not Lebedev's bitch - to suggest such a thing would be unpatriotic cynicism that plays into Putin's hands...


Now, about those week-arse "sanction" that Britain is giving Russia 30-days warning before implementing...

[Son of Mathonwy]

What a surprise, something else is in the news so plans to cap MPs' earnings from 2nd jobs have been quietly scrapped.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... bs-dropped

[Son of Mathonwy]

Stunning ignorance from Nadine Dorries. Who needs to understand a business model before calling for it to be scrapped?

[Which Tyler]

Confirmed law breaking really should trigger an automatic bye-election in that constituency, with the guilty MP barred from standing.
That damned unwritten constitution strikes again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61083402

[Sandydragon]

Confirmed law breaking really should trigger an automatic bye-election in that constituency, with the guilty MP barred from standing.
That damned unwritten constitution strikes again.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-61083402

Just seen this. Anyone with a normal conscience would resign at this point.

[Which Tyler]

Sunak told met police he only ate some nibbles at the party, then left.
He's claiming nom-nom status.

[morepork]

Fuck. It's just pathetic. I only ate some nibbles. Shirley you could come up with a more compelling reason than that to be present. Even "we all thought someone had left the gas on" would be more credible, but no, poorly timed salted nuts it is.