Squad for Ireland

[jimKRFC]

Randall vastly inferior to Quirke

Has Randall slept with your misses or something?

Nearly every post you make has a dig at him and you're writing off Nye Thomas off "as Randal-esque" without seeing him play....

[Mellsblue]

May/Watson/Daly. A back three that were pretty much interchangeable as their skills were all the same.

Those three are really quite different players.

[Mellsblue]

Randall vastly inferior to Quirke

Has Randall slept with your misses or something?

Nearly every post you make has a dig at him and you're writing off Nye Thomas off "as Randal-esque" without seeing him play....

He usurped Youngs/Benny…. which I think may be worse than sleeping with his missus.

[Banquo]

Irony indeed for Mr rent-a-quote.

The glaring weaknesses in his team are due to his failure to sort out his 9/10/12 & chronic man management of back 3 players.

Losing Itoje icing on the cake...................

I think the discipline, poor breakdown and lack of ball carriers have been much more damaging, frankly. Youngs and Farrell (and to some extent Ford) have been frustrating to watch I'll agree...there hasn't been a rash of candidates for 12, and with May and Watson, two of the back three have not been much of an issue, with Nowell (meh for me, but I'm in a minority) and Daly as good back up; 15 has been iffy though, until Steward rocked up, and even then is work in progress. But games are won and lost up front generally, as cliched as that is.

12 is often a ball carrier - Yoda had 6 seasons to find an alt to Manu & has failed; lurching from a kick the ball every time approach to whatever we have now - coach's call alt wingers to Watson/Nowell - May the constant till this campaign - Radwan Thorley OHC never given proper chance
No doubt penalties caused us major issues but a reflection generally of game momentum & individuals Itoje Curry esp making poor calls on jackal tackle recovery.
9 - never gave Robson and Spencer proper go's at running the team so we now have a novice dictating with a barely more experienced 10 16months from RWC - all down to Yoda.

As Healey has said time to ditch motor-mouth if we lose both these final games without firing shots & looking a team able to play good rugby https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union ... t-ireland/

What I fear is we play 1D rugby and get blown away by both Then Yoda needs to walk

I agree he hasn't found a 12 ball carrier- mostly cos there isn't one. I also agree that Robson and Spencer weren't given a fair crack, but then again, neither have ever looked like world beaters (like the other names you've proferred; its not like he hasn't looked at every new messiah proferred on message boards)- both inconsistent at club level. Back three- I wouldn't have a pop at the wings (nowell only plays when Watson is crocked; unfortunately both of them have become injury prone; ditto Coka), more at 15, but even then not crucial. The games we have lost have not been down to half backs or 12 or back three- but almost always down to poor discipline and being bested (and beasted in the case of the RWC final) at the tackle line on both sides of the ball....though I would cede that half backs have struggled with the rest of the team to turn around shifts in momentum.
Yet...despite all this, a decent win record and a world cup final; he should have done better, but I don't think its been about selection per se, much more about not quite knowing what to do with a set of players who are decent internationals, but no better than that bar Itoje and possibly Curry. Its a shame the Vunipolae have peaked, and that George is ageing a bit.

[jimKRFC]

Randall vastly inferior to Quirke

Has Randall slept with your misses or something?

Nearly every post you make has a dig at him and you're writing off Nye Thomas off "as Randal-esque" without seeing him play....

He usurped Youngs/Benny…. which I think may be worse than sleeping with his missus.

[Banquo]

May/Watson/Daly. A back three that were pretty much interchangeable as their skills were all the same.

Those three are really quite different players.

Yep, had Daly settled into his defensive duties well, that would have been a really well balanced back three with real gas. Even then could have tried Watson more at 15, even though he never played there for Bath

I do love the ongoing debates about back selection, and I'm very noisy about it too....but really the problems start before that. But we should be selecting better, just in case we get some good ball generated without penalties

[FKAS]

Randall vastly inferior to Quirke

Has Randall slept with your misses or something?

Nearly every post you make has a dig at him and you're writing off Nye Thomas off "as Randal-esque" without seeing him play....

Randall's not a bad player, very quick and great if you play from front foot ball. In the right circumstances a brilliant player. I don't think this England team are those circumstances. Quirke on the other hand looked like the man to go forward with from the Autumn. Benny is there for the game management and experience until someone ousts him for club and country. Might have happen before the world cup will definitely happen after. They are certainly queuing up at Tigers and England.

Unless England fundamentally change how they attack, and we all hope they do soon, then I suspect Randall's impact will be limited. Let's face it Randall's strength isn't his kicking game where as Quirke offers that, he also offers more physicality and can still play at the tempo Randall does he only lacks Randall's top end pace. I'm still surprised Eddie isn't using him.

Young Nye was described as small, fiesty and quick so I asked if he was Randall esque. Very handy to player to have in the under 20 given the rest of the side and a good contrast to Edwards the other scrum half who from what I've seen and heard is more Wigglesworth mrkw and is all about the quick service and precise kicking without much of a running game.

[FKAS]

May/Watson/Daly. A back three that were pretty much interchangeable as their skills were all the same.

Those three are really quite different players.

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball. None are going to come off their wing, none are going to look for work, they are three finishers and the one with the big boot got put at fullback. I was more getting at that they lacked an obvious point of difference that a Cockasiga or an Odogwu would offer.

[Banquo]

May/Watson/Daly. A back three that were pretty much interchangeable as their skills were all the same.

Those three are really quite different players.

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball. None are going to come off their wing, none are going to look for work, they are three finishers and the one with the big boot got put at fullback. I was more getting at that they lacked an obvious point of difference that a Cockasiga or an Odogwu would offer.

That's not true of Daly- he often came off his wing and hit interesting lines from 15 as well; he's also a more skilled passer than Watson or May. Watson offers stepping and a good counterattck, May a swerve and real gas and close range finishing skills at his best.

[Mellsblue]

May/Watson/Daly. A back three that were pretty much interchangeable as their skills were all the same.

Those three are really quite different players.

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball.

You’ve just listed the bare minimum I would expect from a back three player. Beyond that they’re all pretty different, as Banquo has pointed out.

[Spiffy]

Those three are really quite different players.

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball. None are going to come off their wing, none are going to look for work, they are three finishers and the one with the big boot got put at fullback. I was more getting at that they lacked an obvious point of difference that a Cockasiga or an Odogwu would offer.

That's not true of Daly- he often came off his wing and hit interesting lines from 15 as well; he's also a more skilled passer than Watson or May. Watson offers stepping and a good counterattck, May a swerve and real gas and close range finishing skills at his best.

When you look back at some of May's outstanding tries, he certainly has long-range finishing skills too. He has run them in from all over the place. Some headless chicken moments in his early days, but over the past 5-6 seasons, England's best wing. They could use him now.

[FKAS]

Those three are really quite different players.

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball. None are going to come off their wing, none are going to look for work, they are three finishers and the one with the big boot got put at fullback. I was more getting at that they lacked an obvious point of difference that a Cockasiga or an Odogwu would offer.

That's not true of Daly- he often came off his wing and hit interesting lines from 15 as well; he's also a more skilled passer than Watson or May. Watson offers stepping and a good counterattck, May a swerve and real gas and close range finishing skills at his best.

Daly would hit interesting lines as long as they were on an outside arc at pace. Similar to what May would offer on the occasions he would come off his wing. They obviously aren't exactly the same but none offered a threat outside of pace and great footwork. Great players and I'd still have them around or in the team now if they were all fit but they need the backline to create at least a one on one with a little space to work in. Ford would have been looking for somebody to run him a line to hold the defence and create the space and none of that back three were going to do it, they wanted to be in the wider channels where they could use their skills. Except when no one hold a defence the drift on mass and you get the lack of threat we had at the time.

[Banquo]

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball. None are going to come off their wing, none are going to look for work, they are three finishers and the one with the big boot got put at fullback. I was more getting at that they lacked an obvious point of difference that a Cockasiga or an Odogwu would offer.

That's not true of Daly- he often came off his wing and hit interesting lines from 15 as well; he's also a more skilled passer than Watson or May. Watson offers stepping and a good counterattck, May a swerve and real gas and close range finishing skills at his best.

When you look back at some of May's outstanding tries, he certainly has long-range finishing skills too. He has run them in from all over the place. Some headless chicken moments in his early days, but over the past 5-6 seasons, England's best wing. They could use him now.

Oh, yes was just pointing out there is more to his game than running. Think he might be a bit past his best tho.

[Banquo]

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball. None are going to come off their wing, none are going to look for work, they are three finishers and the one with the big boot got put at fullback. I was more getting at that they lacked an obvious point of difference that a Cockasiga or an Odogwu would offer.

That's not true of Daly- he often came off his wing and hit interesting lines from 15 as well; he's also a more skilled passer than Watson or May. Watson offers stepping and a good counterattck, May a swerve and real gas and close range finishing skills at his best.

Daly would hit interesting lines as long as they were on an outside arc at pace. Similar to what May would offer on the occasions he would come off his wing. They obviously aren't exactly the same but none offered a threat outside of pace and great footwork. Great players and I'd still have them around or in the team now if they were all fit but they need the backline to create at least a one on one with a little space to work in. Ford would have been looking for somebody to run him a line to hold the defence and create the space and none of that back three were going to do it, they wanted to be in the wider channels where they could use their skills. Except when no one hold a defence the drift on mass and you get the lack of threat we had at the time.

Daly was also popping up between the centres- and I'd rather him running that outside arc than May. I was fustrated that he didn't sometimes hit a straighter line from 15 and from deep- don't see enough of that these days tbh. I agree that we need to hold defences to make the best of their skills, but that's really the midfield's primary job in attack....and round we go....the problem staring us in the face potentially looks to be solved by a fudge elsewhere. Course, with some forward carriers it becomes easier, and you immediately see a role for Sam Simmonds.

Yeah...no threat apart from pace and great footwork

[Spiffy]

That's not true of Daly- he often came off his wing and hit interesting lines from 15 as well; he's also a more skilled passer than Watson or May. Watson offers stepping and a good counterattck, May a swerve and real gas and close range finishing skills at his best.

When you look back at some of May's outstanding tries, he certainly has long-range finishing skills too. He has run them in from all over the place. Some headless chicken moments in his early days, but over the past 5-6 seasons, England's best wing. They could use him now.

Oh, yes was just pointing out there is more to his game than running. Think he might be a bit past his best tho.

Would agree with that. Though May, even a bit past his best, is still probably a better wing than the two incumbents. As an Ireland supporter I am quite glad he's not playing. He scored a scorcher against us a couple of years ago starting off inside his own 22.

[Banquo]

When you look back at some of May's outstanding tries, he certainly has long-range finishing skills too. He has run them in from all over the place. Some headless chicken moments in his early days, but over the past 5-6 seasons, England's best wing. They could use him now.

Oh, yes was just pointing out there is more to his game than running. Think he might be a bit past his best tho.

Would agree with that. Though May, even a bit past his best, is still probably a better wing than the two incumbents. As an Ireland supporter I am quite glad he's not playing. He scored a scorcher against us a couple of years ago starting off inside his own 22.

Oh yes, it was a belter, in the days we used to score tries

[Mellsblue]

Well yes and also no, in the sense they are all quick, good step and are passable under the high ball. None are going to come off their wing, none are going to look for work, they are three finishers and the one with the big boot got put at fullback. I was more getting at that they lacked an obvious point of difference that a Cockasiga or an Odogwu would offer.

That's not true of Daly- he often came off his wing and hit interesting lines from 15 as well; he's also a more skilled passer than Watson or May. Watson offers stepping and a good counterattck, May a swerve and real gas and close range finishing skills at his best.

Daly would hit interesting lines as long as they were on an outside arc at pace. Similar to what May would offer on the occasions he would come off his wing. They obviously aren't exactly the same but none offered a threat outside of pace and great footwork. Great players and I'd still have them around or in the team now if they were all fit but they need the backline to create at least a one on one with a little space to work in. Ford would have been looking for somebody to run him a line to hold the defence and create the space and none of that back three were going to do it, they wanted to be in the wider channels where they could use their skills. Except when no one hold a defence the drift on mass and you get the lack of threat we had at the time.

This is all macro/headline stuff but:
Daly is a far better link man and kicker than the other two.
May is obviously a good yard quicker than both and by far the best under the box kick.
Watson has incredible feet in tight spaces and a violent side step, and a one cut and gone player as opposed to taking an outside arc, as you pointed out about the other two.

[Portcullis Irish]

Quirke or Mitchell be my choice over Randall. Radwan I share Yoda's reticicence OHC or Thorley better bets for me either better than a utility back who really should wear 23.

[Mikey Brown]

I'm not convinced this isn't Digby in disguise.

[Oakboy]

I'm not convinced this isn't Digby in disguise.

Leave him alone. At least I'm not on my own in condemning Jones now!

[Danno]

Are we doing the tried and tested 'announce whether Player X is playing 45mins before KO' for Itoje then? It's starting to feel like a feature rather than a bug.

[Banquo]

Quirke or Mitchell be my choice over Randall. Radwan I share Yoda's reticicence OHC or Thorley better bets for me either better than a utility back who really should wear 23.

I saw Mitchell at Saints the other week and he has some serious wheels. Thought Radwan was exclusively a wing tbh.

[Scrumhead]

Quirke or Mitchell be my choice over Randall. Radwan I share Yoda's reticicence OHC or Thorley better bets for me either better than a utility back who really should wear 23.

I agree on Quirke and Mitchell. However, you criticised Eddie for picking a ‘novice’ at 9, so you can’t really have it both ways. Mitchell arguably could have been given a try over the past 2yrs, but Quirke was picked after 10 Premiership appearances (mostly from the bench) which is as soon as reasonably possible.

I really like Thorley as a player but he’s fairly lucky to be in the Gloucester side given his lack of form over the past two seasons (his recent starts probably owe a fair bit to May and LRZ being unavailable). He’s just not a realistic option.

Hassell-Collins is deservedly in the wider squad but clearly hasn’t done enough to demand being in the 23 yet.

[Scrumhead]

On another note, I have no doubt that France will be better next week but there were definitely a few takeaways we could look at from last nights game - notably at the lineout. Rowlands really made Woki’s life difficult. If Itoje (who is a better disruptor than Rowlands IMO) can do something similar, that could be very useful.

[FKAS]

On another note, I have no doubt that France will be better next week but there were definitely a few takeaways we could look at from last nights game - notably at the lineout. Rowlands really made Woki’s life difficult. If Itoje (who is a better disruptor than Rowlands IMO) can do something similar, that could be very useful.

Jaminet struggled under the high ball as well. Could be a tactic to switch Steward onto the wing for called kick chases and look to turn the screw.