Stade de France Saturday 19th March

[francoisfou]

Over here, the rugby talk is the possibility of the Grand Slam, although I don't think many consider it a fait accompli just yet. The French are always wary of the English threat.

From a French point of view, the good news is that the only injury doubt is that of winger Moefana who following the match in Cardiff who has a knee problem. Even he is fit, I doubt if he'll be in the starting XV because Damien Penaud will surely have recovered from covid and take his rightful place on the wing, which is not good news for England.
The other covid case, 2nd row Romain Taofifenua, will probably be on the bench.

On Friday night's evidence, the French are beatable and a team with a bit more nous than Wales may well have won. Are England such a team?
With a favourable wind, they could be but the odds are stacked against them. Fabien Galthié and Shaun Edwards will undoubtedly look to iron out the weaknesses from Cardiff and ensure that their team are as best prepared as possible for Saturday night.
The weather forecast for next weekend is good with no rain and a light wind, so the stage is set for the first French Grand Slam since 2010.

[Oakboy]

In a daft sort of way, might that defeat against Ireland, and the manner of it, give the team the self-belief to beat France? If Jones makes a few inspired selection calls, keeps things simple and produces a top performance it could happen.

[Puja]

We are going to get taken roughly, without lubrication. France have had their scare and their poor performance against Wales and their coaching team will be making sure that there is no repeat. Meanwhile, England were in disarray before one of their best players and their only openside in the squad was ruled out. And, if that wasn't bad enough, Charlie Ewels is going to be banned and unavailable!

We will not get within 20 points.

Puja

[Oakboy]

We are going to get taken roughly, without lubrication. France have had their scare and their poor performance against Wales and their coaching team will be making sure that there is no repeat. Meanwhile, England were in disarray before one of their best players and their only openside in the squad was ruled out. And, if that wasn't bad enough, Charlie Ewels is going to be banned and unavailable!

We will not get within 20 points.

Puja

You are discounting Underhill and rating Ewels then?

[Puja]

We are going to get taken roughly, without lubrication. France have had their scare and their poor performance against Wales and their coaching team will be making sure that there is no repeat. Meanwhile, England were in disarray before one of their best players and their only openside in the squad was ruled out. And, if that wasn't bad enough, Charlie Ewels is going to be banned and unavailable!

We will not get within 20 points.

Puja

You are discounting Underhill and rating Ewels then?

Not sure how confident I am in Underhill being able to slot back in immediately, nor in his ability to last more than 10 minutes before knocking himself out again.

Ewels was a joke, in case that wasn't obvious.

Puja

[fivepointer]

I see no grounds for optimism. Individually and collectively the French look on a different level.

I fear we're going to get a pasting.

[Banquo]

I see no grounds for optimism. Individually and collectively the French look on a different level.

I fear we're going to get a pasting.

I see no reason for getting a pasting, but difficult to see a win. The French struggled against what is hardly a vintage Wales, as did we in fairness.

[francoisfou]

Just out of curiosity, I've looked at England's record of matches in France over the years, and it's closer than I had imagined:

There've been 53 matches of which England have won 23 and France 29 with 2 drawn.
England have scored 757 points and France 778.

France will undoubtedly be favourites.
Betfair have France at 4/11 and England at a staggering 25/1. That's worth a fiver at least!!

[Mellsblue]

Ewels was a joke, in case that wasn't obvious.

Puja

Would you also clarify as to whether you expect France to take us roughly without lubrications in a literal or metaphorical sense. Thank you, in advance.

[Puja]

Just out of curiosity, I've looked at England's record of matches in France over the years, and it's closer than I had imagined:

There've been 53 matches of which England have won 23 and France 29 with 2 drawn.
England have scored 757 points and France 778.

France will undoubtedly be favourites.
Betfair have France at 4/11 and England at a staggering 25/1. That's worth a fiver at least!!

Gosh. Considering odds on England tend to be lower than reality would dictate (because the English are big gamblers and tend to bet patriotically which skews things), those are staggering odds.

Puja

[Dan. Dan. Dan.]

Whilst the loss to Ireland might have been the best possible kind of loss (for squad morale, form and just generally being up for Paris), unfortunately the 'too close', scare win over Wales was probably the best thing for France to get the players to buy into how important defence is when you can't get things going in attack and how to face a plucky opposition that has game planned against you.
I reckon Wales did them a massive favour by scaring them into the realisation that they're beatable and they won't let it happen against England. Having said that, I don't think it's going to be 20+ points. But I do think we'll all be criticising the level of commitment and wondering why we need a man sent off to beast scrumtime and celebrate little victories passionately.

[FKAS]

The forwards might just achieve parity but with a backline as blunt as ours in attack we just aren't going to score sufficient points to keep up with France. The defence isn't going to shut them out especially with no Curry to terrorise the breakdown.

It'll be interesting to see what Eddie does with the second row, Launchbury is the obvious choice but he won't add anything to the lineout and Woki looked targetable on Friday night. Chessum or Isiekwe could come in and offer that lineout counter attack threat as well as more mobility. Won't make any difference in terms of result but might stop some of the bleeding and help keep the score down.

[twitchy]

It'll be interesting to see what Eddie does with the second row, Launchbury is the obvious choice but he won't add anything to the lineout and Woki looked targetable on Friday night. Chessum or Isiekwe could come in and offer that lineout counter attack threat as well as more mobility. Won't make any difference in terms of result but might stop some of the bleeding and help keep the score down.

Put lawes in and shuffle then back row maybe?

[Banquo]

Just out of curiosity, I've looked at England's record of matches in France over the years, and it's closer than I had imagined:

There've been 53 matches of which England have won 23 and France 29 with 2 drawn.
England have scored 757 points and France 778.

France will undoubtedly be favourites.
Betfair have France at 4/11 and England at a staggering 25/1. That's worth a fiver at least!!

yep, those are good odds; two horse race, and whilst we aren't that good, we should be able to go toe to toe.

Eddie has to look at the lack of pace in the backs; the forwards without Curry looks a tricky call as well.

An alternative view of the game is that France are on a decline based on their effort v 'not-the-greatest-welsh-side-ever', and our forwards are on an upward swing, given the view of the Irish pack prior to the game.
.....well, I tried

[Oakboy]

Maybe Barbeary's day has come. A back row of him, Underhill and Simmonds might cause havoc. Lawes has to start but France might be the right game to pick him in the 2nd row with Launchbury on the bench.

[FKAS]

The forwards might just achieve parity but with a backline as blunt as ours in attack we just aren't going to score sufficient points to keep up with France. The defence isn't going to shut them out especially with no Curry to terrorise the breakdown.

It'll be interesting to see what Eddie does with the second row, Launchbury is the obvious choice but he won't add anything to the lineout and Woki looked targetable on Friday night. Chessum or Isiekwe could come in and offer that lineout counter attack threat as well as more mobility. Won't make any difference in terms of result but might stop some of the bleeding and help keep the score down.

Depends how we are going to shuffle the backrow. France have a pretty big backrow with I think Aldritt the short one at 6ft3. Eddie will want three go to lineout jumpers against that otherwise France should be able to both pressure our lineout and take their own ball if up against just Lawes and Itoje as jumpers. If we were to go Simmonds, Underhill and Dombrandt as a back three that's two around the 6ft mark and then Dombrandt at 6ft4. Do you want your 8 having to do a lot of lineout jumping? We could move Simmonds into the carrying 8 role but neither Simmonds nor Dombrandt are going to notch up the big tackle counts.

I think something more like;

1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler/Stuart
4. Itoje
5. Isiekwe
6. Lawes
7. Underhill
8. Dombrandt

Blamire, Marler, Stuart/Heyes, Launchbury, Simmonds

Is likely though Launchbury into the row and Chessum on the bench covering lock and 6 could also work. If we aren't applying pressure on the French lineout then Chessum could come on and do that particularly as the French replacement hooker doesn't have the best darts. Waiting for the Eddie left field selection.

[p/d]

Just put Lawes into second toe and bring back Underhill alongside Dombrandt and Simmonds. An out and out speed merchant on the wing with Malins sent back to Sarries. Barbeary definitely on bench.

[Freddo]

Knowing Eddie he will just pick Ewels again.

[Banquo]

Just put Lawes into second toe and bring back Underhill alongside Dombrandt and Simmonds. An out and out speed merchant on the wing with Malins sent back to Sarries. Barbeary definitely on bench.

I think Lawes is quite a big toe tbh.

[p/d]

Just put Lawes into second toe and bring back Underhill alongside Dombrandt and Simmonds. An out and out speed merchant on the wing with Malins sent back to Sarries. Barbeary definitely on bench.

I think Lawes is quite a big toe tbh.

[Banquo]

The forwards might just achieve parity but with a backline as blunt as ours in attack we just aren't going to score sufficient points to keep up with France. The defence isn't going to shut them out especially with no Curry to terrorise the breakdown.

It'll be interesting to see what Eddie does with the second row, Launchbury is the obvious choice but he won't add anything to the lineout and Woki looked targetable on Friday night. Chessum or Isiekwe could come in and offer that lineout counter attack threat as well as more mobility. Won't make any difference in terms of result but might stop some of the bleeding and help keep the score down.

Depends how we are going to shuffle the backrow. France have a pretty big backrow with I think Aldritt the short one at 6ft3. Eddie will want three go to lineout jumpers against that otherwise France should be able to both pressure our lineout and take their own ball if up against just Lawes and Itoje as jumpers. If we were to go Simmonds, Underhill and Dombrandt as a back three that's two around the 6ft mark and then Dombrandt at 6ft4. Do you want your 8 having to do a lot of lineout jumping? We could move Simmonds into the carrying 8 role but neither Simmonds nor Dombrandt are going to notch up the big tackle counts.

I think something more like;

1. Genge
2. George
3. Sinckler/Stuart
4. Itoje
5. Isiekwe
6. Lawes
7. Underhill
8. Dombrandt

Blamire, Marler, Stuart/Heyes, Launchbury, Simmonds

Is likely though Launchbury into the row and Chessum on the bench covering lock and 6 could also work. If we aren't applying pressure on the French lineout then Chessum could come on and do that particularly as the French replacement hooker doesn't have the best darts. Waiting for the Eddie left field selection.

Having a chat with yourself .

[TheNomad]

We are going to get taken roughly, without lubrication. France have had their scare and their poor performance against Wales and their coaching team will be making sure that there is no repeat. Meanwhile, England were in disarray before one of their best players and their only openside in the squad was ruled out. And, if that wasn't bad enough, Charlie Ewels is going to be banned and unavailable!

We will not get within 20 points.

Puja

Agree with this. I don’t think we have a prayer. This are good players available to Eddie, but for whatever reason, it’s an average team that turns up more often than not.

I appreciate we’re close to a WC, but I would be pleased if it was Jones’ last game. Time for a change. He should be getting more from the players at his disposal.

[Mellsblue]

I think the answer to who replaces Curry is currently wearing white at Franklin’s Gardens.

[Puja]

We are going to get taken roughly, without lubrication. France have had their scare and their poor performance against Wales and their coaching team will be making sure that there is no repeat. Meanwhile, England were in disarray before one of their best players and their only openside in the squad was ruled out. And, if that wasn't bad enough, Charlie Ewels is going to be banned and unavailable!

We will not get within 20 points.

Puja

Agree with this. I don’t think we have a prayer. This are good players available to Eddie, but for whatever reason, it’s an average team that turns up more often than not.

I appreciate we’re close to a WC, but I would be pleased if it was Jones’ last game. Time for a change. He should be getting more from the players at his disposal.

Agreed. Quite apart from the fact that we're about to finish 5th for the second season in a row, my major problem is that he seems to have spent the last year continually trying to reinvent the wheel - like he's trying to create a legacy as the guy who overturned the playbook of rugby and made something new. We've had 10s not playing at first receiver, three centres, and now we're apparently not playing to any pattern but are instead "free-flowing". Maybe it could work at club level, where you have the players every day of the week, but an international, it's producing a mess as players fight their inground instincts to try and remember what they should be doing in this new system and no-one takes charge if the fly-half's not on his feet.

Sod trying to innovate and create "new rugby". Pick players in their positions, have forward runners coming hard off 9 and 10 with supporters on their shoulders, and play simple rugby.

Oh, and drop that Smith guy, cause it's clearly all his fault.

Puja

[Spiffy]

It's hard to see an England win in Paris - but you never know. If the pack plays as they did yesterday, they will be in with a chance. A few key contributing factors could be -

- England will not have another free ride at scrum time against the French front row
- France probably has the best all-round back row unit in the 6n with Aldritt/Cros/Jelonch
- the French defence under Edwards is tremendous
- the England three quarters lack invention and pace and find it difficult to engineer a try
- the French FB is usually a reliable goal kicker (but then so is Smith)
- England rely too much on Itoje - it's understandable since he's brilliant (even if half mad at times). Hope he's got plenty of engine left for next week after yesterday's stint
- England have no Dupont

The French are certainly favourites and have home advantage, but I doubt it will be a rout.