Salary Cap Enquiry

[FKAS]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/leic ... -s560xpbh5

Tigers linked with an image rights company based in the East Midlands (Derby Pride Park) paying players.

"Leicester Tigers are aware of allegations made against the club regarding historic image rights payments.

The club is cooperating with Premiership Rugby, who are looking into the historic matter, and has met with representatives from Premiership Rugby to discuss the claims.

Leicester Tigers will make no further comment while the matter remains ongoing."

The way Tigers responded makes me think it's pre the Pinchen regime and if I was betting then the 'insider' information is coming from one of the players that opted to leave when Covid hit.

I hope the club haven't tried to be clever.

[Tigersman]

Cohen always thought he was the smartest in the room.
That being said Image rights tend to be more in line with Tax loophole rather than Salary cap loophole usually because it's easier to spot.
Saracens for example had a investigation with the tax man over Itoje image rights but it wasn't linked to the salary cap.

But who knows.

[Timbo]

Interesting that the company was wound up at almost the exact same time that Sarries were getting dragged over the coals for their breaches. Almost like somebody was covering their tracks.

I’m sure Saracens will be looking on with a keen eye.

[FKAS]

It would just cap of the incompetence and humiliation of our double 11th place finishes if are found to have been playing financial silly buggers at the time.

[Puja]

It would just cap of the incompetence and humiliation of our double 11th place finishes if are found to have been playing financial silly buggers at the time.

Saracens broke the salary cap to win titles and ERCs. I think it might finish me off if we broke it to just about avoid relegation, especially if it then leads to league points being taken away from us now that we're actually good again.

Puja

[FKAS]

It would just cap of the incompetence and humiliation of our double 11th place finishes if are found to have been playing financial silly buggers at the time.

Saracens broke the salary cap to win titles and ERCs. I think it might finish me off if we broke it to just about avoid relegation, especially if it then leads to league points being taken away from us now that we're actually good again.

Puja

My feelings exactly. Got on this really good run and it's just off field negative stories hitting us one after the other. Ford off, Genge off and now this.

Imagine some of the massive underperformers we may have been shipping extra cash. Doesn't bare thinking about.

[Tigersman]

Interesting that the company was wound up at almost the exact same time that Sarries were getting dragged over the coals for their breaches. Almost like somebody was covering their tracks.

I’m sure Saracens will be looking on with a keen eye.

I mean the company handled Footballers image rights as well, pretty sure the rugby side would be small fry compared, more likely to do with the HMRC getting involved than the Salary cap.

In fact a 50% share holder Anthony John Lymn is involved in a lot of players especially Scandinavian ones companies

https://find-and-update.company-informa ... pointments

[Big D]

It would just cap of the incompetence and humiliation of our double 11th place finishes if are found to have been playing financial silly buggers at the time.

Saracens broke the salary cap to win titles and ERCs. I think it might finish me off if we broke it to just about avoid relegation, especially if it then leads to league points being taken away from us now that we're actually good again.

Puja

Would imagine it opens up the potential for legal action from the relegated sides?

[FKAS]

It would just cap of the incompetence and humiliation of our double 11th place finishes if are found to have been playing financial silly buggers at the time.

Saracens broke the salary cap to win titles and ERCs. I think it might finish me off if we broke it to just about avoid relegation, especially if it then leads to league points being taken away from us now that we're actually good again.

Puja

Would imagine it opens up the potential for legal action from the relegated sides?

That would depend on which season it was. If it was the season Tigers finished 11th and Falcons got relegated then expect things to possibly kick off. A season later then Sarries got relegated and there will no sympathy for them whatsoever.

[Puja]

Saracens broke the salary cap to win titles and ERCs. I think it might finish me off if we broke it to just about avoid relegation, especially if it then leads to league points being taken away from us now that we're actually good again.

Puja

Would imagine it opens up the potential for legal action from the relegated sides?

That would depend on which season it was. If it was the season Tigers finished 11th and Falcons got relegated then expect things to possibly kick off. A season later then Sarries got relegated and there will no sympathy for them whatsoever.

I'd imagine it'll also depend on how big a breach it was and how much Leicester cooperate. Remember, Saracens' punishment was so draconian because they chose to accept relegation rather than open their books to the auditors and I can't imagine Leicester will be of the same approach, especially since this is an entirely new regime on and off the pitch who will have no particular need or desire to protect the old regime. Previous salary cap breaches have been matters of fines, IIRC.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

[Tigersman]

JB from eggchasers seems to think the amount in total is around 100K.
Granted have zero idea on his sources but he does seem to sometimes get nuggets right in amongst his "hot takes".
The Times had a interesting talk on it.

[ExAviator]

Puja wrote:

" Remember, Saracens' punishment was so draconian because they chose to accept relegation rather than open their books to the auditors"

My understanding was Saracens offered to open their books but ONLY IF ALL PREMIERSHIP TEAMS would also do so. Perhaps Leicester and other teams had good reason to reject this.

[Tigersman]

Yeh but they still could've also just shown their books.

Not like Saracens had any cards to play with to make such a demand.

[Raggs]

Puja wrote:

" Remember, Saracens' punishment was so draconian because they chose to accept relegation rather than open their books to the auditors"

My understanding was Saracens offered to open their books but ONLY IF ALL PREMIERSHIP TEAMS would also do so. Perhaps Leicester and other teams had good reason to reject this.

Don't remember that. Can't find anything in the old news articles either.

[Puja]

Puja wrote:

" Remember, Saracens' punishment was so draconian because they chose to accept relegation rather than open their books to the auditors"

My understanding was Saracens offered to open their books but ONLY IF ALL PREMIERSHIP TEAMS would also do so. Perhaps Leicester and other teams had good reason to reject this.

Don't remember that. Can't find anything in the old news articles either.

Same - while my memory's not great, I don't remember that coming up at all. It went straight from significant points deduction that they were likely to overcome to "We have accepted relegation rather than be subjected to further scrutiny." Even if that was the case, a guilty party's not exactly in a great position to make demands.

Puja

[Stom]

Puja wrote:

" Remember, Saracens' punishment was so draconian because they chose to accept relegation rather than open their books to the auditors"

My understanding was Saracens offered to open their books but ONLY IF ALL PREMIERSHIP TEAMS would also do so. Perhaps Leicester and other teams had good reason to reject this.

Don't remember that. Can't find anything in the old news articles either.

Same - while my memory's not great, I don't remember that coming up at all. It went straight from significant points deduction that they were likely to overcome to "We have accepted relegation rather than be subjected to further scrutiny." Even if that was the case, a guilty party's not exactly in a great position to make demands.

Puja

Didn't convex/exaviator make this same claim at the time?

[Gloskarlos]

PREMIERSHIP RUGBY can confirm that it has concluded its investigation into Leicester Tigers’ Salary Cap compliance for the seasons 2016-17 to 2020-21. The investigation was initiated by Premiership Rugby’s Salary Cap Director, Andrew Rogers, using the strengthened powers introduced following a review of the regulations in 2020.

In summary, the investigation found that Leicester Tigers, and one or more club commercial partners, entered into arrangements whereby a third-party company made payments to the image rights companies of Leicester Tigers players. These payments should have been declared to the Salary Cap Director as salary, but they were not disclosed.

In each of the four seasons from 2016-17 to 2019-20, Leicester Tigers exceeded the Salary Cap by an amount below the ‘Overrun’ limit above which a formal charge may be brought for an alleged breach of the regulations. The club has accepted the findings, which means there will be no further disciplinary process or appeal. The level of fine imposed in these circumstances, known as an Overrun Tax, is calculated by a formula set out in the regulations.

As a result of the previously undisclosed payments now being counted as salary, the Salary Cap Director has determined that Leicester Tigers exceeded the Salary Cap by the following amounts:

2016-17: £147,750.00 (Senior Salary Cap £6,000,000; Overrun limit £325,000)
2017-18: £89,718.05 (Senior Salary Cap £6,400,000; Overrun limit £350,000)
2018-19: £55,886.69 (Senior Salary Cap £6,400,000; Overrun limit £350,000)
2019-20: £98,586.32 (Senior Salary Cap £6,400,000; Overrun limit £350,000)

During the relevant period, the Salary Cap Regulations stated that for the first £50,000 of Overrun, a club would pay a tax of £0.50 for every £1 of overspend. Beyond the first £50,000 and up to £200,000 of Overrun, the tax is £1 for every £1 of additional overspend.

Consequently, the breakdown of the Overrun Tax on Leicester Tigers is:

2016-17: £122,750.00
2017-18: £64,718.05
2018-19: £30,886.69
2019-20: £73,586.32

In addition, Leicester Tigers have been fined £17,900 for failing to disclose information about the above arrangements in the five seasons from 2016-17 to 2020-2021 inclusive. In respect of 2020-21 Tigers were fined for non-disclosure but there was no overrun of the Salary Cap.

This makes a total of £309,841.06 in fines and taxes.

Andrew Rogers, Salary Cap Director, said: "The review of Salary Cap Regulations provided stronger powers to monitor spending and investigate possible breaches of the cap in past seasons. Leicester Tigers have cooperated with my investigation and accepted the findings, which allows us to apply the sanctions detailed in the regulations.

[Gloskarlos]

Seems to me like Tigers constantly using the 'allowed' overrun and happy to pay the consequences. Not as bad as Sarries - but definitely taking the p1ss a little. Perhaps the grey area needs tightening up.

[Raggs]

It does look like they were happy to use it as an extra with tax. Whilst I don't love that, it's all within the setup rules.

[Banquo]

It does look like they were happy to use it as an extra with tax. Whilst I don't love that, it's all within the setup rules.

yes, whilst not declaring it.....and frankly, its, like a flanker often does, deliberately cheating and hoping to get away with it....but not so badly that the risk outweighs the reward. Its a couple of degrees of separation from Sarries...it basically says you can pay to overspend within 5-6%, but not declaring it is bad form.

[Gloskarlos]

I'd be happier if it was a year or two max - but 4 years on the trot is systematically taking advantage of the system. Admittedly the system is shite as it allows it.

[Which Tyler]

Seems to me like Tigers constantly using the 'allowed' overrun and happy to pay the consequences. Not as bad as Sarries - but definitely taking the p1ss a little. Perhaps the grey area needs tightening up.

The impression I have is that they wouldn't get away with that.
They have to show their working for why they were over the cap; so pre-season projections have to be within the cap.
But things like having to spend above the injury allowance, or an England player being ejected from the EPS (and the cap allowance there) would be allowable.


The non-declaration whold be hit with a much harsher sanction though (IMO) - it's not the crime, it's the cover-up

[Gloskarlos]

Seems to me like Tigers constantly using the 'allowed' overrun and happy to pay the consequences. Not as bad as Sarries - but definitely taking the p1ss a little. Perhaps the grey area needs tightening up.

The impression I have is that they wouldn't get away with that.
They have to show their working for why they were over the cap; so pre-season projections have to be within the cap.
But things like having to spend above the injury allowance, or an England player being ejected from the EPS (and the cap allowance there) would be allowable.


The non-declaration whold be hit with a much harsher sanction though (IMO) - it's not the crime, it's the cover-up

at 150k, 100k nearly twice and 80k this seems more than 'unforeseen circumstances' surely all other clubs would be the same in this instance give or take.

[Banquo]

Seems to me like Tigers constantly using the 'allowed' overrun and happy to pay the consequences. Not as bad as Sarries - but definitely taking the p1ss a little. Perhaps the grey area needs tightening up.

The impression I have is that they wouldn't get away with that.
They have to show their working for why they were over the cap; so pre-season projections have to be within the cap.
But things like having to spend above the injury allowance, or an England player being ejected from the EPS (and the cap allowance there) would be allowable.


The non-declaration whold be hit with a much harsher sanction though (IMO) - it's not the crime, it's the cover-up

They didn't disclose the image rights part though, unless I've misunderstood what you are saying. (In addition, Leicester Tigers have been fined £17,900 for failing to disclose information about the above arrangements in the five seasons from 2016-17 to 2020-2021 inclusive. In respect of 2020-21 Tigers were fined for non-disclosure but there was no overrun of the Salary Cap.)

Strikes me that as said, they knew exactly what they were doing, and kept it within a boundary where they wouldn't cop a bad sanction.