Clermont Vs Tigers

[FKAS]

STARTING XV
15 Freddie Steward [48]
14 Harry Potter [33]
13 Guy Porter [38]
12 Dan Kelly [40]
11 Hosea Saumaki [10]
10 George Ford [120]
9 Ben Youngs [275]
1 Ellis Genge (c) [102]
2 Julián Montoya [22]
3 Joe Heyes [93]
4 Ollie Chessum [24]
5 Calum Green [83]
6 Hanro Liebenberg (vc) [50]
7 Tommy Reffell [70]
8 Jasper Wiese [36]

REPLACMENTS
16 Nic Dolly [19]
17 James Whitcombe [19]
18 Dan Cole [281]
19 Harry Wells [147]
20 Eli Snyman [16]
21 Jack van Poortvliet [42]
22 Freddie Burns [94]
23 Matías Moroni [27]

With MVS and Martin still out injured two locks on the bench bench was pretty much expected. Dolly can cover 7 in case of an early injury for Reffell otherwise we may have opted for Charlie Clare and his extra set piece strength. Chessum starts presumably to target the Clermont lineout in tandem with Green. Surprised Saumaki gets the nod on the wing, I expect Clermont will target him.

[FKAS]

[FKAS]

A few missing from Clermont Yato, Lavanini, Penaud all jump out immediately.

[Puja]

Great to see Cole back from his mysterious injury - I'll feel a lot more comfortable having him on for the last 20 than I would Leatigaga.

Pleased to see Chessum given the start at lock - I'd prefer us to cultivate at least one of him or Martin into a full-time second row, as rangy back rows are a dime a dozen, while good locks are more precious than gold.

Surprised as you about Saumaki, but we don't know who's not available. If Ashton, Murimurivalu, and Nadolo are both injured, then it makes more sense for Saumaki to play over either Moroni or shifting Porter out. Plus there's no doubt that he's highly dangerous in attack, which might be very useful in a game of few chances.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Big game for Heyes, Chessum and Kelly. Tough place to play and be a big tick in their development box if they come through well.

[Puja]

Big game for Heyes, Chessum and Kelly. Tough place to play and be a big tick in their development box if they come through well.

Excellent point. If Kelly impresses here, he should be on the plane to Australia. It's far from terminal to his prospects if he doesn't, but it would add a bit more weight to my concern that he's just been good in the weaker Premiership and that we're seeing what we're hoping to, in our desperation for a 12. He's been good in the Premiership and this is the step up.

Same for Chessum and Heyes, although there's a lesser chance of people (and me) projecting what they want to see onto those players.

Puja

[Mr Mwenda]

Great to see Cole back from his mysterious injury - I'll feel a lot more comfortable having him on for the last 20 than I would Leatigaga.

a

Can't read his, can't read his poker face. P-p-p-poker face...

[FKAS]

Big game for Heyes, Chessum and Kelly. Tough place to play and be a big tick in their development box if they come through well.

Excellent point. If Kelly impresses here, he should be on the plane to Australia. It's far from terminal to his prospects if he doesn't, but it would add a bit more weight to my concern that he's just been good in the weaker Premiership and that we're seeing what we're hoping to, in our desperation for a 12. He's been good in the Premiership and this is the step up.

Same for Chessum and Heyes, although there's a lesser chance of people (and me) projecting what they want to see onto those players.

Puja

Quite. If Kelly can go away to that cauldron and hold is own against Fofana and Moana then that's a big statement from a young player. With Kelly I think he needs to more reliably display his footballing skills. He's got a decent passing range and a neat grubber should be need it but he uses them infrequently. If he brings them to the party regularly and not just his good tight carrying and monster defence.

Heyes and his performance Vs Chiefs highlighted just how far he's come. This is another big one, a similar performance and it's going to be hard for Cole to get back in. There's not too many tightheads that can do 72 mins 20+ tackles and be entirely comfortable at the set piece down at Sandy Park.

Chessum you'd imagine is an obvious selection. Mobility, work rate and physicality plus the tendency to steal lineouts. What's not to like. As I said above I like him and Green combining in the row, it should allow us to put a lot of pressure on the Clermont lineout.

If Nadolo was injured I'd have expected Porter on the left wing and Moroni at 13 but Borthwick seems to like Porter at 13 increasingly which is an interesting development with Moroni out of contract in the summer and someone who signed from Jags on a relatively cheap contract given the situation. Big chance for Saumaki who's looked a lethal finisher but somewhat a rough diamond otherwise. Be interesting how he goes against that stellar Clermont backline.

[FKAS]

Late change. Ben Youngs out through illness for JVP starts and Wigglesworth is on the bench.

[FKAS]

Touch harsh on the red as that was not an intentional coming together. If Dickson was reffing that probably wouldn't be a penalty.

[Big D]

Think it was a clear red tbh.

Tigers doing a good job here.

[Puja]

Touch harsh on the red as that was not an intentional coming together. If Dickson was reffing that probably wouldn't be a penalty.

Even though it wasn't intentional, that's still not a mitigating factor. He's caused the contact by racing out of the defensive line and, even though he's not looking at the player, he *should* have been and the fact that he wasn't made it his fault. Add head contact in and it's a clear red.

Such a good game from Leicester today. I only got to see the last 35 minutes, but I saw Chessum stepping up another level again, Heyes looking hugely dynamic, and Kelly being very competent under the higher pressure. Quite apart from the individuals, we just look so organised, calm, and confident in our structures - it's just night and day from the pre-Borthwick days. We might not have the best players in the tournament, but I think we could go an awful long way as we appear to be one of the best teams.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Porter should have been paying more attention. It was a stupid way to get a red card but players have to be a bit more tuned in.
That aside Leicester were superb. They rode out the early pressure and slowly got hold of the game and never relaxed their control. The composure, workrate and physical engagement was just top drawer. Terrific effort from everyone but Genge, Montoya, Chessum and Reffell were great up front.
Completely unrelated to the action, i just have to say what a delight to have Ben Kayser on comms.

[Spiffy]

Porter should have been paying more attention. It was a stupid way to get a red card but players have to be a bit more tuned in.
That aside Leicester were superb. They rode out the early pressure and slowly got hold of the game and never relaxed their control. The composure, workrate and physical engagement was just top drawer. Terrific effort from everyone but Genge, Montoya, Chessum and Reffell were great up front.
Completely unrelated to the action, i just have to say what a delight to have Ben Kayser on comms.

He speaks better English than most of his homegrown commentator colleagues.

[Timbo]

Touch harsh on the red as that was not an intentional coming together. If Dickson was reffing that probably wouldn't be a penalty.

Even though it wasn't intentional, that's still not a mitigating factor. He's caused the contact by racing out of the defensive line and, even though he's not looking at the player, he *should* have been and the fact that he wasn't made it his fault. Add head contact in and it's a clear red.

Such a good game from Leicester today. I only got to see the last 35 minutes, but I saw Chessum stepping up another level again, Heyes looking hugely dynamic, and Kelly being very competent under the higher pressure. Quite apart from the individuals, we just look so organised, calm, and confident in our structures - it's just night and day from the pre-Borthwick days. We might not have the best players in the tournament, but I think we could go an awful long way as we appear to be one of the best teams.

Puja

Assuming your lot finish the job in the second leg it’s very likely to be Leinster in front of 20k+ at Welford Road next up. Now that’ll be a game worth watching.

[FKAS]

Touch harsh on the red as that was not an intentional coming together. If Dickson was reffing that probably wouldn't be a penalty.

Even though it wasn't intentional, that's still not a mitigating factor. He's caused the contact by racing out of the defensive line and, even though he's not looking at the player, he *should* have been and the fact that he wasn't made it his fault. Add head contact in and it's a clear red.

Such a good game from Leicester today. I only got to see the last 35 minutes, but I saw Chessum stepping up another level again, Heyes looking hugely dynamic, and Kelly being very competent under the higher pressure. Quite apart from the individuals, we just look so organised, calm, and confident in our structures - it's just night and day from the pre-Borthwick days. We might not have the best players in the tournament, but I think we could go an awful long way as we appear to be one of the best teams.

Puja

Yeah I'm not going to complain about the red card, ref's reasoning was sound, just the initial thought was that we've seen more flimsy mitigation see the sanction go from red to yellow over these last two weekends. Though I suppose that's with less competent referees, sir today was excellent. Consistent and kept the game flowing between two sides pushing the limits.

Agree about the patterns and how composed we looked. Even losing Lenny and moving to JVP it all just clicked. Saumaki put in a composed performance showing much maturity in his game. The kids were alright weren't they. Chessum and Reffell collosal, Heyes great in the loose but learnt a bit at scrum time, Kelly lead the defence superbly. Key senior men all played like it. Extremely tough place to go and get a result, to nil Clermont in the second half even with half of it down a man is a serious result.

[Timbo]

If you go by the framework sending off Porter is entirely dependent on whether you consider what he did to be a tackle. For me it’s just 2 players who don’t see each other running a line that makes them collide. I don’t think Potter is even interested in Lee, I think he’s trying to cut out the back door pass to the 11.

[Big D]

If you go by the framework sending off Porter is entirely dependent on whether you consider what he did to be a tackle. For me it’s just 2 players who don’t see each other running a line that makes them collide. I don’t think Potter is even interested in Lee, I think he’s trying to cut out the back door pass to the 11.

Makes no difference if it is a tackle. 9.11 and the framework covers dangerous or reckless play and head to head contact

[Timbo]

If you go by the framework sending off Porter is entirely dependent on whether you consider what he did to be a tackle. For me it’s just 2 players who don’t see each other running a line that makes them collide. I don’t think Potter is even interested in Lee, I think he’s trying to cut out the back door pass to the 11.

Makes no difference if it is a tackle. 9.11 and the framework covers dangerous or reckless play and head to head contact

So do you consider what Porter did to be reckless or dangerous? For the sake of argument, what does Porter do that is more reckless or dangerous than what Lee did?

[Puja]

If you go by the framework sending off Porter is entirely dependent on whether you consider what he did to be a tackle. For me it’s just 2 players who don’t see each other running a line that makes them collide. I don’t think Potter is even interested in Lee, I think he’s trying to cut out the back door pass to the 11.

Makes no difference if it is a tackle. 9.11 and the framework covers dangerous or reckless play and head to head contact

So do you consider what Porter did to be reckless or dangerous? For the sake of argument, what does Porter do that is more reckless or dangerous than what Lee did?

Porter is the one rushing forwards and out of the defensive line. Lee is where he should be expected to be - Porter is the one who is *doing* something. As such, it's his responsibility to look where he's going.

It's very unfortunate and it probably doesn't *deserve* a red card in terms of actual culpability, as it is a genuine accident, but it is reckless, cause he ran forwards while looking sideways and someone ended up concussed.

Puja

[Puja]

Touch harsh on the red as that was not an intentional coming together. If Dickson was reffing that probably wouldn't be a penalty.

Even though it wasn't intentional, that's still not a mitigating factor. He's caused the contact by racing out of the defensive line and, even though he's not looking at the player, he *should* have been and the fact that he wasn't made it his fault. Add head contact in and it's a clear red.

Such a good game from Leicester today. I only got to see the last 35 minutes, but I saw Chessum stepping up another level again, Heyes looking hugely dynamic, and Kelly being very competent under the higher pressure. Quite apart from the individuals, we just look so organised, calm, and confident in our structures - it's just night and day from the pre-Borthwick days. We might not have the best players in the tournament, but I think we could go an awful long way as we appear to be one of the best teams.

Puja

Assuming your lot finish the job in the second leg it’s very likely to be Leinster in front of 20k+ at Welford Road next up. Now that’ll be a game worth watching.

Oof, that *would* be tasty. Another great test of our young promising players as well. It'd be a massive test, but with home advantage, I'd say we've got an okay chance at that.

We're going to miss Ford so much when he goes - Pollard isn't in his class at all. While the youngsters will get better with time, it feels like this season is a one-shot chance to win things, before losing Genge and Ford forces a rebuild.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Lee is also coming forwards. It’s a pretty harsh outcome as in no way is either player intent on contacting each other. It’s not like a hit on a dummy runner, it’s simply a collision of two players not looking at each other.

If neither is looking at each other and accidentally collide then it’s pretty harsh to say one is at fault purely because one team has the ball.

[Timbo]

It's very unfortunate and it probably doesn't *deserve* a red card in terms of actual culpability, as it is a genuine accident, but it is reckless, cause he ran forwards while looking sideways and someone ended up concussed.

Puja

It’s probably that last sentence that I’m having some trouble with. Is ‘running forwards while looking sideways’ on a rugby field now considered reckless or dangerous? What’s the coaching point? What behaviour are we trying prevent?

[Big D]

Makes no difference if it is a tackle. 9.11 and the framework covers dangerous or reckless play and head to head contact

So do you consider what Porter did to be reckless or dangerous? For the sake of argument, what does Porter do that is more reckless or dangerous than what Lee did?

Porter is the one rushing forwards and out of the defensive line. Lee is where he should be expected to be - Porter is the one who is *doing* something. As such, it's his responsibility to look where he's going.

It's very unfortunate and it probably doesn't *deserve* a red card in terms of actual culpability, as it is a genuine accident, but it is reckless, cause he ran forwards while looking sideways and someone ended up concussed.

Puja

That's pretty much my take on it. Porter's actions caused the collision. It is unfortunate but there is no real mitigation as per the framework to lower the sanction.

[Mellsblue]

Is ‘running forwards while looking sideways’ on a rugby field now considered reckless or dangerous? What’s the coaching point? What behaviour are we trying prevent?

This. There’s absolutely no leeway for the fact it’s a game of millimetres played at break neck (excuse the unfortunate terminology) speed.
There’s definitely a bias towards what’s good PR rather than what’s sensible with the (application of the) new laws.
I suppose the coaching point must be play slower/passive in d and allow the attacking team an advantage.