Worcester vs Saracens - Sat 3pm

[Puja]

Warriors: Heward; Humphreys, O Morris, Venter, Howe; Smith, Simpson; Sutherland, Annett, Judge, Batley, G Kitchener, Hatherell, 7 Hill (capt), Kvesic.

Replacements: Miller, Waller, McCallum, A Kitchener, Lewis, Chudley, Searle, Beck.

Saracens: Malins; Segun, Daly, Tompkins, Maitland; Farrell (capt), Davies; Mawi, George, Koch, Isiekwe, McFarland, Christie, Earl, B Vunipola.

Replacements: Pifeleti, Barrington, Clarey, Hunter-Hill, Wray, Van Zyl, Manu Vunipola, Taylor.

[Peej]

As one way as expected

[Puja]

For all the "no relegation is great, just look at the exciting rugby and the top teams playing lots of youth products" that the pundits have been doing (ignoring that the salary cap drop has had a lot more to do with clubs promoting their youth team than the likes of Northampton or Harlequins being relieved of the worry of relegation), it's notable that Newcastle, Worcester, and Bath have simply stopped giving a single fuck towards the end of the season. They'd be a lot more motivated if there was still a trap door yawning beneath them, but right now a match against any of the three is just a guaranteed 5 points - they might as well forfeit their last two; it'd likely do less damage to their points difference.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Have Bath even started to give a single fuck all season? They have massively underperformed given the quality of players they have.

All 3 clubs at the bottom are there because they are the worst in the Prem. Bath have obvious issues from top to bottom and in dire need of a major shake up, Wuss and Newcastle have been poorly led and are in the throes of making necessary changes but have squads that would struggle to make the top 8. I'm not sure the threat of relegation would have made them play any better, or seen their results improve.

[Puja]

Have Bath even started to give a single fuck all season? They have massively underperformed given the quality of players they have.

All 3 clubs at the bottom are there because they are the worst in the Prem. Bath have obvious issues from top to bottom and in dire need of a major shake up, Wuss and Newcastle have been poorly led and are in the throes of making necessary changes but have squads that would struggle to make the top 8. I'm not sure the threat of relegation would have made them play any better, or seen their results improve.

Idk, I think Bath were trying more at the start of the season. Not very effectively, granted, but there was certainly more effort and desire going into games like the narrow loss to Exeter than we've seen in their recent form.

I don't deny that those three would still be bottom, but I'm pretty sure lighting a fire under them would get better efforts than the recent, "Eh, what does it matter, our season's over and there's a new regime for next season, so never mind." Desperation's a powerful motivator.

Puja

[Peej]

I've always found the "no relegation leads to promoting youth and exciting rugby" idea has always been based on looking at the high quality of certain teams in particular leagues like the Crusaders and assuming all Super Rugby teams are the same, rather than the utter dross served up by the Rebels, the Force, the Cheetahs, the Lions....

[Epaminondas Pules]

For all the "no relegation is great, just look at the exciting rugby and the top teams playing lots of youth products" that the pundits have been doing (ignoring that the salary cap drop has had a lot more to do with clubs promoting their youth team than the likes of Northampton or Harlequins being relieved of the worry of relegation), it's notable that Newcastle, Worcester, and Bath have simply stopped giving a single fuck towards the end of the season. They'd be a lot more motivated if there was still a trap door yawning beneath them, but right now a match against any of the three is just a guaranteed 5 points - they might as well forfeit their last two; it'd likely do less damage to their points difference.

Puja

Except nobody could get promoted anyway as they’re not up to eligibility standards.

And Newcastle were leading at halftime against Sale. Worcester against a gunning Saracens was always going to be a hiding. But Bath are simply shite. They have been all season. A terrible start and now zero confidence at all.

[Epaminondas Pules]

And how is the bottom teams supposedly not trying (well one of them really) different from a lower table club safe from relegation but no chance of top 8 just meandering through the last few weeks? Kind of like Bristol. There can’t be competition and motivation everywhere. There never has been. But we’ve got the top 9 clubs all cracking into it.

[Mellsblue]

‘Some teams won’t have anything to play for in the final month of the season’ isn’t an in argument in favour of removing the relegation battle. It’s just a fact of a league system….. ideally you’d like all teams to have something to play for all of the time but that isn’t realistic.
No teams eligible for promotion is moot as there was no relegation regardless.

[Puja]

And how is the bottom teams supposedly not trying (well one of them really) different from a lower table club safe from relegation but no chance of top 8 just meandering through the last few weeks? Kind of like Bristol. There can’t be competition and motivation everywhere. There never has been. But we’ve got the top 9 clubs all cracking into it.

It's not different, but we should look to reduce the amount of clubs that can clock off early. Right now, there's 4, when we could have had only 1.

Puja

[Epaminondas Pules]

Have four clubs clocked off early? As I said Newcastle we’re leading at Sale at half time. Doesn’t sound like they weren’t there to compete. And Wuss lost to a flaying Saracens team, which doesn’t really tell us anything.

[Epaminondas Pules]

‘Some teams won’t have anything to play for in the final month of the season’ isn’t an in argument in favour of removing the relegation battle. It’s just a fact of a league system….. ideally you’d like all teams to have something to play for all of the time but that isn’t realistic.
No teams eligible for promotion is moot as there was no relegation regardless.

It’s not an argument for or against, it is just a fact of playing in a league system. As you say it’s unrealistic to have every team having something to play for.

[Puja]

Have four clubs clocked off early? As I said Newcastle we’re leading at Sale at half time. Doesn’t sound like they weren’t there to compete. And Wuss lost to a flaying Saracens team, which doesn’t really tell us anything.

I hadn't seen the Newcastle-Sale game, so I reserve the right to be wrong. They've been pretty supine the weeks before that though.

Puja

[Mellsblue]

‘Some teams won’t have anything to play for in the final month of the season’ isn’t an in argument in favour of removing the relegation battle. It’s just a fact of a league system….. ideally you’d like all teams to have something to play for all of the time but that isn’t realistic.
No teams eligible for promotion is moot as there was no relegation regardless.

It’s not an argument for or against, it is just a fact of playing in a league system. As you say it’s unrealistic to have every team having something to play for.

And retrograde to consciously reduce that number….. I understand why they have done it for a time limited period in this instance, though.