Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:58 am
Somewhat as expected, especially with those missing. I'd have looked at Martin, which has started the season really well, and how Porter is there, let alone over Marchant is another level of baffling.
FKAS is Eddie Jones and I claim my £10.
With those selections? Not a chance.
I also said Marchant would be back in by the AIs and starting at 13. I'd also like to change the game plan to actually give the centres the ball occasionally.
Marchant is left out because he's a soft southerner. England players have to be hard northerners or non-English players. Or Devonshire bumkins. No place for any nice lads in this team.
Epaminondas Pules wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 11:58 am
Somewhat as expected, especially with those missing. I'd have looked at Martin, which has started the season really well, and how Porter is there, let alone over Marchant is another level of baffling.
Clearly young Jones doesn't like his character that much, cos it can't be his play.
Possibly, although I find that really hard to believe. Joe Marchant is a hard working, popular player who definitely isn’t the type to make a fuss. Perhaps by playing consistently very well he is the victim one of those situations where Eddie won’t admit he was wrong.
I prefer Dingwall to Porter but neither are close to Marchant IMO.
Yeah I struggle to see Marchant coming back if Eddie isn’t sold at this point. The Aus tour seemed like the time to finally see him get a run in his best position and Jones wasn’t interested. It’s not like Ford or Billy who are established at the top level and can drop back in.
Everything seems to still hang on Tuilagi being fit. Some time this Autumn, Jones needs to make a decision on him. Either he's fully fit and likely to remain so or he should be dumped. 'Maybe' just stops others feeling they are in with a genuine chance. The squad badly needs togetherness, not disruption.
If Tuilagi is 100% fully fit this Autumn that surely doesn’t indicate one way or the other if he ‘likely to remain so’. I agree we spend a lot of time seemingly just waiting on Tuilagi, but he is our one demonstrably world class midfielder.
If he isn’t fully fit now then I agree we cut our losses, but as importantly will Jones actually follow the guidance regarding his training?
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:34 pm
Everything seems to still hang on Tuilagi being fit. Some time this Autumn, Jones needs to make a decision on him. Either he's fully fit and likely to remain so or he should be dumped. 'Maybe' just stops others feeling they are in with a genuine chance. The squad badly needs togetherness, not disruption.
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:34 pm
Everything seems to still hang on Tuilagi being fit. Some time this Autumn, Jones needs to make a decision on him. Either he's fully fit and likely to remain so or he should be dumped. 'Maybe' just stops others feeling they are in with a genuine chance. The squad badly needs togetherness, not disruption.
Saw the highlights of the Exeter v. Quins game. Jack Nowell again looked well short of the pace required for an international wing. He may bring attributes like power, determination, dog etc.. but there is really no substitute for real speed at the top level. I'd like to see some other likely lads given a run but Jack seems a firm favourite of Eddie Jones and looks locked in to the RWC squad.
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:34 pm
Everything seems to still hang on Tuilagi being fit. Some time this Autumn, Jones needs to make a decision on him. Either he's fully fit and likely to remain so or he should be dumped. 'Maybe' just stops others feeling they are in with a genuine chance. The squad badly needs togetherness, not disruption.
Spiffy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 4:15 pm
Saw the highlights of the Exeter v. Quins game. Jack Nowell again looked well short of the pace required for an international wing. He may bring attributes like power, determination, dog etc.. but there is really no substitute for real speed at the top level. I'd like to see some other likely lads given a run but Jack seems a firm favourite of Eddie Jones and looks locked in to the RWC squad.
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:34 pm
Everything seems to still hang on Tuilagi being fit. Some time this Autumn, Jones needs to make a decision on him. Either he's fully fit and likely to remain so or he should be dumped. 'Maybe' just stops others feeling they are in with a genuine chance. The squad badly needs togetherness, not disruption.
How can you guarantee anyone remaining fully fit?
In Tuilagi's case I'd simply suggest that if he is available uninjured for all games up to and including the AIs there's a chance of him being fit thereafter.
Oakboy wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 2:34 pm
Everything seems to still hang on Tuilagi being fit. Some time this Autumn, Jones needs to make a decision on him. Either he's fully fit and likely to remain so or he should be dumped. 'Maybe' just stops others feeling they are in with a genuine chance. The squad badly needs togetherness, not disruption.
How can you guarantee anyone remaining fully fit?
In Tuilagi's case I'd simply suggest that if he is available uninjured for all games up to and including the AIs there's a chance of him being fit thereafter.
that's what happened last time, and then pulled up injured in training for england
Clearly young Jones doesn't like his character that much, cos it can't be his play.
Possibly, although I find that really hard to believe. Joe Marchant is a hard working, popular player who definitely isn’t the type to make a fuss. Perhaps by playing consistently very well he is the victim one of those situations where Eddie won’t admit he was wrong.
I prefer Dingwall to Porter but neither are close to Marchant IMO.
whats your reasoning then?
I genuinely don’t know, it’s easy to speculate that he’s done something to piss Eddie off, but that just doesn’t fit with his character.
I would have thought the qualities Marchant brings are obvious, but perhaps Eddie just thinks Porter and Dingwall are better suited to what he wants? I don’t agree with him but it doesn’t have to be a case of Marchant doing something bad.
In Tuilagi's case I'd simply suggest that if he is available uninjured for all games up to and including the AIs there's a chance of him being fit thereafter.
that's what happened last time, and then pulled up injured in training for england
Or injured himself in the act of scoring within 7 minutes.
Possibly, although I find that really hard to believe. Joe Marchant is a hard working, popular player who definitely isn’t the type to make a fuss. Perhaps by playing consistently very well he is the victim one of those situations where Eddie won’t admit he was wrong.
I prefer Dingwall to Porter but neither are close to Marchant IMO.
whats your reasoning then?
I genuinely don’t know, it’s easy to speculate that he’s done something to piss Eddie off, but that just doesn’t fit with his character.
I would have thought the qualities Marchant brings are obvious, but perhaps Eddie just thinks Porter and Dingwall are better suited to what he wants? I don’t agree with him but it doesn’t have to be a case of Marchant doing something bad.
I didn't say doing anything bad, or indeed that he has pi55ed Eddie off....we just know that Eddie forms views on players. On the grapevine I've heard that he thinks 'some players' are a bit too laid back for him. Remember the before and after Itoje?
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:43 pm
The only logical explanation is that players coming to England after playing in NZ have a finite window in which they are selected. See Brad Shields.
Piers Francis. Matt Symons didn't get given a fair go though.
I genuinely don’t know, it’s easy to speculate that he’s done something to piss Eddie off, but that just doesn’t fit with his character.
I would have thought the qualities Marchant brings are obvious, but perhaps Eddie just thinks Porter and Dingwall are better suited to what he wants? I don’t agree with him but it doesn’t have to be a case of Marchant doing something bad.
I didn't say doing anything bad, or indeed that he has pi55ed Eddie off....we just know that Eddie forms views on players. On the grapevine I've heard that he thinks 'some players' are a bit too laid back for him. Remember the before and after Itoje?
Exactly. Too Southern Posh School numpty for Eddie...which rules out about half of the good players. I just don't really like Eddie at all.
I genuinely don’t know, it’s easy to speculate that he’s done something to piss Eddie off, but that just doesn’t fit with his character.
I would have thought the qualities Marchant brings are obvious, but perhaps Eddie just thinks Porter and Dingwall are better suited to what he wants? I don’t agree with him but it doesn’t have to be a case of Marchant doing something bad.
I didn't say doing anything bad, or indeed that he has pi55ed Eddie off....we just know that Eddie forms views on players. On the grapevine I've heard that he thinks 'some players' are a bit too laid back for him. Remember the before and after Itoje?
Exactly. Too Southern Posh School numpty for Eddie...which rules out about half of the good players. I just don't really like Eddie at all.
who are these good players he isnt picking out of interest?
Eddie has said that Marchant had a “disappointing” tour and has “some work to do on his game". Sounds like a major uphill battle to get back in Eddie’s good books tbh.
On the other hand apparently Will Joseph blew people away with his ability and attitude on tour, so can see him getting some opportunities this autumn.
Banquo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:38 pm
I didn't say doing anything bad, or indeed that he has pi55ed Eddie off....we just know that Eddie forms views on players. On the grapevine I've heard that he thinks 'some players' are a bit too laid back for him. Remember the before and after Itoje?
Exactly. Too Southern Posh School numpty for Eddie...which rules out about half of the good players. I just don't really like Eddie at all.
who are these good players he isnt picking out of interest?
Well, Marchant for one. It's more the attitude around the England team. I don't like all this nonsense with the shouty shouty clappy clappy macho man show. Kinda shows that my favorite kind of player was always the Robshaw type. But, anyway. I just think he's a chipper bastard.
Exactly. Too Southern Posh School numpty for Eddie...which rules out about half of the good players. I just don't really like Eddie at all.
who are these good players he isnt picking out of interest?
Well, Marchant for one. It's more the attitude around the England team. I don't like all this nonsense with the shouty shouty clappy clappy macho man show. Kinda shows that my favorite kind of player was always the Robshaw type. But, anyway. I just think he's a chipper bastard.
....but you said`half the good players'....does that mean we only have 2 ....
agreed on the shouty crap. But then again a bit of edge and passion can go a long way.
Last edited by Banquo on Mon Sep 26, 2022 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Timbo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 26, 2022 8:24 pm
Eddie has said that Marchant had a “disappointing” tour and has “some work to do on his game". Sounds like a major uphill battle to get back in Eddie’s good books tbh.
On the other hand apparently Will Joseph blew people away with his ability and attitude on tour, so can see him getting some opportunities this autumn.
I mean WJoseph does look utterly incredible. Arundell's been doing the flashy stuff, but I'm almost more impressed with the way Joseph just keeps stepping up and looking comfortable.
Joseph's going to be some player. They clearly like the look of him and he seems to have impressed in camp and on tour. One thing he has over Arundell is his defence in the wide channels. He's very accurate in the tackle and quick enough to show anyone outside and be able to catch them.
Very small sample, but looking through the game stats on the prem site, he's yet to miss a tackle this season (11/0). Which is a decent effort for a wing.
