England training squad

[Banquo]

Moved to Sale, got injured and now struggles for game time. I think he's been playing in the PRC.

Fair enough. Never saw enough of him to be putting his name forward as an option, just funny to remember all the names that at one point were destined to come in and take hold of the 12/13 shirt.

The list of promising but injury prone centres we’ve had in the last 10 years is quite impressive.

In a parallel universe we’d had Abbott, Allen, Devoto passing the torch at 12 and Tuilagi has 150+ caps.

To be fair to Allen he was largely just ignored, especially at Tigers where he was the absolute glue to the backline, but we had Hape times instead.

Yep, Allen was consistently good- he had a duff game v NZ and thereafter was pretty much ignored, and then iirc injured when called up. He's just the sort of centre that is really valuable, does all the jobs pretty well and gets over the gainline. Not flash, just very effective.

[FKAS]

Porter, Walker and George out injured. Radwan, Singleton and McGuigan in.

[Mikey Brown]

Radwan in for Porter is… curious, but okay.

[Puja]

Radwan in for Porter is… curious, but okay.

Especially when Murley is in the form of his life. Radwan's excellent, but surely Murley's got to be worth a look when he's scoring tries like he did today.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Murley is terribly hard done by. I like Radwan but Murley's all round game has been top notch for more than a season now.

[Margin_Walker]

Wing is a really interesting position in the lead up to the world cup.

There are so many genuinely good wings coming through at the same time. At the same time you've guys like Nowell and May in the squad very much on credit in the bank and not wanting to make too many changes a year out.

Whilst both could clearly still do a job, it's jarring to see players like Murley and OHC not be able to get a look in.

[Scrumhead]

Agreed. Another Eddie head-scratcher. Murley has deserved to be involved for a while. Very few obvious weaknesses and a great combination of talent and work rate.

While Walker has done well for Quins, McGuigan should always have been ahead of him anyway.

Other than the call-ups, the main point of interest for me is Saracens’ change of style. Hopefully, their switch to more of a running game will have a positive effect on England’s attack. As long as Farrell is fit, he’ll start so if he’s getting used to playing more instinctively, that can only be a good thing IMO. I hope that Eddie takes note and gives us a bit more license to play,

[Oakboy]

I like Murley but Daly remains the best winger not in the training squad originally. Of all Jones's strange selection decisions, moving him from wing remains the oddest. His try for Saracens on Saturday underlined where he is best, IMO. He also has a better overall skill set than any of England's other wingers.

[Mikey Brown]

I like Murley but Daly remains the best winger not in the training squad originally. Of all Jones's strange selection decisions, moving him from wing remains the oddest. His try for Saracens on Saturday underlined where he is best, IMO. He also has a better overall skill set than any of England's other wingers.

I mean Daly has proven himself at the top level on the wing, in a way Murley hasn't (had the chance to) but beyond that it depends what you consider the key skillset of a winger. Daly's goal-kicking and passing game are very useful but they're far from the top of my list for a wing. Murley's finishing prowess and power in contact is fantastic, but who knows whether that would shine at international level.

I liked the concept of Daly as a fullback, and we got a lot of good attacking play out of him there, but Jones seemed to ignore the fact things might not go our way and teams could have him on the backfoot or fielding high kicks.

[Oakboy]

I like Murley but Daly remains the best winger not in the training squad originally. Of all Jones's strange selection decisions, moving him from wing remains the oddest. His try for Saracens on Saturday underlined where he is best, IMO. He also has a better overall skill set than any of England's other wingers.

I mean Daly has proven himself at the top level on the wing, in a way Murley hasn't (had the chance to) but beyond that it depends what you consider the key skillset of a winger. Daly's goal-kicking and passing game are very useful but they're far from the top of my list for a wing. Murley's finishing prowess and power in contact is fantastic, but who knows whether that would shine at international level.

I liked the concept of Daly as a fullback, and we got a lot of good attacking play out of him there, but Jones seemed to ignore the fact things might not go our way and teams could have him on the backfoot or fielding high kicks.

You need someone more knowledgeable about the intricacies of the game than me to define a winger's best skill-set. I think there is a large gap between club and international level when it comes to try-scoring. Chances are fewer and harder. Daly, IMO, has the 'right play at the right time' gift and, as a winger, I 'd argue that he is better at international level than club level. Conversely, at OC or FB, he does not cut it across the whole mix of attack/defence. My humble opinion on that is that he is more tied positionally and therefore more liable to be exposed in defence. On the wing, he defends adequately. In attack, with encouragement to rove and find the opposition's weaknesses in awkward moments, his skill-set makes him England's best winger.

Jones disagrees obviously. Odd that when it was him that put Daly in a winger's shirt in the first place.

[Banquo]

I like Murley but Daly remains the best winger not in the training squad originally. Of all Jones's strange selection decisions, moving him from wing remains the oddest. His try for Saracens on Saturday underlined where he is best, IMO. He also has a better overall skill set than any of England's other wingers.

I mean Daly has proven himself at the top level on the wing, in a way Murley hasn't (had the chance to) but beyond that it depends what you consider the key skillset of a winger. Daly's goal-kicking and passing game are very useful but they're far from the top of my list for a wing. Murley's finishing prowess and power in contact is fantastic, but who knows whether that would shine at international level.

I liked the concept of Daly as a fullback, and we got a lot of good attacking play out of him there, but Jones seemed to ignore the fact things might not go our way and teams could have him on the backfoot or fielding high kicks.

Daly is also quick, elusive and a good finisher- plus a massive boot from hand. But an entirely different player to Murley. Its not necessarily one or the other tbh. In fact there are a whole bunch of very different strengths scanning the wing stocks- Nowell is chalk v cheese v May, Watson, Freeman different again.... for example. Probably best to look at the back three as a unit, and decide what skills best support how you want to play.

[Oakboy]

I wonder what Jones's FB ranking is. Steward and Furbank seem to be the most highly rated. I'd have Malins, Watson and Nowell ahead of Daly.

Daly and Steward at 11, 15. Who balances them best in the 14 shirt, Banquo?

[Mikey Brown]

Isn't he a centre? And a bit old?

[Scrumhead]

I like Murley but Daly remains the best winger not in the training squad originally. Of all Jones's strange selection decisions, moving him from wing remains the oddest. His try for Saracens on Saturday underlined where he is best, IMO. He also has a better overall skill set than any of England's other wingers.

I mean Daly has proven himself at the top level on the wing, in a way Murley hasn't (had the chance to) but beyond that it depends what you consider the key skillset of a winger. Daly's goal-kicking and passing game are very useful but they're far from the top of my list for a wing. Murley's finishing prowess and power in contact is fantastic, but who knows whether that would shine at international level.

I liked the concept of Daly as a fullback, and we got a lot of good attacking play out of him there, but Jones seemed to ignore the fact things might not go our way and teams could have him on the backfoot or fielding high kicks.

You need someone more knowledgeable about the intricacies of the game than me to define a winger's best skill-set. I think there is a large gap between club and international level when it comes to try-scoring. Chances are fewer and harder. Daly, IMO, has the 'right play at the right time' gift and, as a winger, I 'd argue that he is better at international level than club level. Conversely, at OC or FB, he does not cut it across the whole mix of attack/defence. My humble opinion on that is that he is more tied positionally and therefore more liable to be exposed in defence. On the wing, he defends adequately. In attack, with encouragement to rove and find the opposition's weaknesses in awkward moments, his skill-set makes him England's best winger.

Jones disagrees obviously. Odd that when it was him that put Daly in a winger's shirt in the first place.

I know this is another ‘blame it all on Eddie’ post, but you seem to be forgetting that Daly had been in indifferent form for quite some time. For the past two seasons prior to this one, he didn’t really deserve the call ups he did get and Saracens rarely played him on the wing in any case. Had Eddie picked him on the wing, it would have been odd and would have limited game time for others who were more deserving of the opportunity - Malins being one example.

Daly has always been a very talented player but he didn’t cut it as a test 15 and it’s difficult to make a case for him on the wing when he hasn’t played there in a good while. ‘England’s best winger’? Perhaps he could have been had he specialised in that role, but the fact is that he hasn’t and for that reason, isn’t even in the conversation for that accolade IMO.

[Banquo]

Isn't he a centre? And a bit old?

was and very

[Banquo]

I wonder what Jones's FB ranking is. Steward and Furbank seem to be the most highly rated. I'd have Malins, Watson and Nowell ahead of Daly.

Daly and Steward at 11, 15. Who balances them best in the 14 shirt, Banquo?

Freeman

(Hardy)

(Willis)

Arundell

[Banquo]

I mean Daly has proven himself at the top level on the wing, in a way Murley hasn't (had the chance to) but beyond that it depends what you consider the key skillset of a winger. Daly's goal-kicking and passing game are very useful but they're far from the top of my list for a wing. Murley's finishing prowess and power in contact is fantastic, but who knows whether that would shine at international level.

I liked the concept of Daly as a fullback, and we got a lot of good attacking play out of him there, but Jones seemed to ignore the fact things might not go our way and teams could have him on the backfoot or fielding high kicks.

You need someone more knowledgeable about the intricacies of the game than me to define a winger's best skill-set. I think there is a large gap between club and international level when it comes to try-scoring. Chances are fewer and harder. Daly, IMO, has the 'right play at the right time' gift and, as a winger, I 'd argue that he is better at international level than club level. Conversely, at OC or FB, he does not cut it across the whole mix of attack/defence. My humble opinion on that is that he is more tied positionally and therefore more liable to be exposed in defence. On the wing, he defends adequately. In attack, with encouragement to rove and find the opposition's weaknesses in awkward moments, his skill-set makes him England's best winger.

Jones disagrees obviously. Odd that when it was him that put Daly in a winger's shirt in the first place.

I know this is another ‘blame it all on Eddie’ post, but you seem to be forgetting that Daly had been in indifferent form for quite some time. For the past two seasons prior to this one, he didn’t really deserve the call ups he did get and Saracens rarely played him on the wing in any case. Had Eddie picked him on the wing, it would have been odd and would have limited game time for others who were more deserving of the opportunity - Malins being one example.

Daly has always been a very talented player but he didn’t cut it as a test 15 and it’s difficult to make a case for him on the wing when he hasn’t played there in a good while. ‘England’s best winger’? Perhaps he could have been had he specialised in that role, but the fact is that he hasn’t and for that reason, isn’t even in the conversation for that accolade IMO.

Farrell never plays 12 for Sarries yet...

Dalys time has probably gone, but some of his best years have been a bit wasted- and iirc he was injured a fait bit in the last year or so ?

[twitchy]

Not enough posh public school kids in the england rugby team is quite the take.

Will those plucky little rascals ever get a break in life?

[Banquo]

Not enough posh public school kids in the england rugby team is quite the take.

Will those plucky little rascals ever get a break in life?

? what does this refer to?

[twitchy]

It was referring to a conversation from a few pages back, I should have quoted someone.

[Scrumhead]

You need someone more knowledgeable about the intricacies of the game than me to define a winger's best skill-set. I think there is a large gap between club and international level when it comes to try-scoring. Chances are fewer and harder. Daly, IMO, has the 'right play at the right time' gift and, as a winger, I 'd argue that he is better at international level than club level. Conversely, at OC or FB, he does not cut it across the whole mix of attack/defence. My humble opinion on that is that he is more tied positionally and therefore more liable to be exposed in defence. On the wing, he defends adequately. In attack, with encouragement to rove and find the opposition's weaknesses in awkward moments, his skill-set makes him England's best winger.

Jones disagrees obviously. Odd that when it was him that put Daly in a winger's shirt in the first place.

I know this is another ‘blame it all on Eddie’ post, but you seem to be forgetting that Daly had been in indifferent form for quite some time. For the past two seasons prior to this one, he didn’t really deserve the call ups he did get and Saracens rarely played him on the wing in any case. Had Eddie picked him on the wing, it would have been odd and would have limited game time for others who were more deserving of the opportunity - Malins being one example.

Daly has always been a very talented player but he didn’t cut it as a test 15 and it’s difficult to make a case for him on the wing when he hasn’t played there in a good while. ‘England’s best winger’? Perhaps he could have been had he specialised in that role, but the fact is that he hasn’t and for that reason, isn’t even in the conversation for that accolade IMO.

Farrell never plays 12 for Sarries yet...

Dalys time has probably gone, but some of his best years have been a bit wasted- and iirc he was injured a fait bit in the last year or so ?

Very true. One of the reasons why I’m not proclaiming his as ‘England’s best 12’.

[Banquo]

I know this is another ‘blame it all on Eddie’ post, but you seem to be forgetting that Daly had been in indifferent form for quite some time. For the past two seasons prior to this one, he didn’t really deserve the call ups he did get and Saracens rarely played him on the wing in any case. Had Eddie picked him on the wing, it would have been odd and would have limited game time for others who were more deserving of the opportunity - Malins being one example.

Daly has always been a very talented player but he didn’t cut it as a test 15 and it’s difficult to make a case for him on the wing when he hasn’t played there in a good while. ‘England’s best winger’? Perhaps he could have been had he specialised in that role, but the fact is that he hasn’t and for that reason, isn’t even in the conversation for that accolade IMO.

Farrell never plays 12 for Sarries yet...

Dalys time has probably gone, but some of his best years have been a bit wasted- and iirc he was injured a fait bit in the last year or so ?

Very true. One of the reasons why I’m not proclaiming his as ‘England’s best 12’.

....so who do you proclaim thus? Must admit I thought you supported faz at 12. I assume he is `in the conversation?

[FKAS]

Farrell never plays 12 for Sarries yet...

He doesn't anymore but he certainly has done in the past. Quite a bit when Chargedown Charlie was at Sarries with him.

The biggest issue most had with Farrell was that he was one paced in attack and that there was a lack of creation. Two things you can't level at him this season, if he continues to play like this then he could be the starting 10 for England in the AIs. Would allow a Manu and Porter Marchant combination in the centres which would make England quite a bit more dangerous. Well whilst Manu is fit anyway.

[Banquo]

Farrell never plays 12 for Sarries yet...

He doesn't anymore but he certainly has done in the past. Quite a bit when Chargedown Charlie was at Sarries with him.

The biggest issue most had with Farrell was that he was one paced in attack and that there was a lack of creation. Two things you can't level at him this season, if he continues to play like this then he could be the starting 10 for England in the AIs. Would allow a Manu and Porter Marchant combination in the centres which would make England quite a bit more dangerous. Well whilst Manu is fit anyway.

It’s a long long time since he started there. I would only play him at 10, as he will still be too slow for an intl 12. Not sure why you think his pace has improved tbh. He’s a poor centre and has always been intls.

Lol @ Porter

[FKAS]

Farrell never plays 12 for Sarries yet...

He doesn't anymore but he certainly has done in the past. Quite a bit when Chargedown Charlie was at Sarries with him.

The biggest issue most had with Farrell was that he was one paced in attack and that there was a lack of creation. Two things you can't level at him this season, if he continues to play like this then he could be the starting 10 for England in the AIs. Would allow a Manu and Porter Marchant combination in the centres which would make England quite a bit more dangerous. Well whilst Manu is fit anyway.

It’s a long long time since he started there. I would only play him at 10, as he will still be too slow for an intl 12. Not sure why you think his pace has improved tbh. He’s a poor centre and has always been intls.

Lol @ Porter

I was thinking more of his ability to move the ball and generate momentum with the one paced comment. There has tended to be very little risk or deception in a Farrell attack. This season he's been a revelation. Sarries attack looks as dangerous as anything Quins or Saints are doing. Farrell is at the heart of it as well.