Squad named

[Banquo]

That would be my starting front row.

Go Rodd-ers!!!

well, ok.

How about the rest.

[Spiffy]

I advocate T Willis because I think he is potentially the best No 8. The debate over the others does cover claims that nobody has stood up sufficiently to be counted for England and, in Dombrandt's case, hints (rightly or wrongly) that he is lacking in 80 minute application in some games. That is the area where I think Willis will prove the best. His graft and character shine through (in club games anyway) no matter what the game situation.

In the last seven years, and especially in the last three, England performances have featured constant under-performance. Clarity of approach is a big factor in SB's message and I accept the implied criticism of his predecessor in highlighting that. The other big factor for me was the tendency for some players to be in cruise mode, possibly because of lack of clarity but also, IMO, a lack of out-and-out doggedness/determination to not be beaten, no matter what the coaching failures. I'd pick both Willises to provide that basic gutsiness ahead of all the others. Not far behind are Lawes and both Currys but I see the other candidates further back.

Of course, if SB gets everything right, priorities might change. For example, Dombrandt's hands and attacking linking could be a top requirement IF the rest of the pack are performing as a full-firing unit. The same could apply to Simmonds' pace, breakaway skills and try-scoring habits.

I can understand why SB backs his own ability to get the best out of the pack as a unit by betting on Dombrandt or Simmonds to complement it. I err on the pessimistic side of the debate in wanting that extra bit of dog in the back row by wanting T Willis at 8. If SB has gone a step further by deciding that his choices are better short-term prospects who am I to argue?

One thing I do want to call out is the inconsistency of how players are judged. I think there are some unfair perceptions re. Dombrandt’s 80 minute ‘application’ that are at best debatable.

Its cos he ermm...looks like he could do with a bit more conditioning, perhaps? and again, that might be unfair.

Maybe he wants to be Dean Richards Mk II ?

[Banquo]

One thing I do want to call out is the inconsistency of how players are judged. I think there are some unfair perceptions re. Dombrandt’s 80 minute ‘application’ that are at best debatable.

Its cos he ermm...looks like he could do with a bit more conditioning, perhaps? and again, that might be unfair.

Maybe he wants to be Dean Richards Mk II ?

Deano was a classic case of his appearance belying his actuals contribution, which were immense. He should be congratulated for returning his rowing machine unused to the RFU . Different times, but I'd still pick him

[p/d]

That would be my starting front row.

Go Rodd-ers!!!

well, ok.

How about the rest.

Not sure about playing a back rower at 5, so would opt for no more mullet.
Back row is exactly what I want........ Think BCurry hunting with Willis and the Fatboy bouncing about the field will be a mini holy trinity.
Kelly & Slade, back 3. Yep. 9 & 10 we can only hope.

[Mikey Brown]

Those idiots forgot about Freeman.

[p/d]

b*stards!!

[Banquo]

Those idiots forgot about Freeman.

He got a mention.

[Scrumhead]

I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

You definitely should, but I totally understand why you stopped. Games over the last couple of years have been painful to watch in real time, let alone on a detailed, minute-by-minute watch.

I liked them for the exact point you mentioned around challenging assumptions/shining a light on the small but important points of detail that are easily missed in real-time.

[Mellsblue]

I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again… I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

Digby incoming

[16th man]

I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

You definitely should, but I totally understand why you stopped. Games over the last couple of years have been painful to watch in real time, let alone on a detailed, minute-by-minute watch.

I liked them for the exact point you mentioned around challenging assumptions/shining a light on the small but important points of detail that are easily missed in real-time.

We'll be able to see if the new laws do speed up the game too.

Maybe we'll all be nostalgic for classics such as Minute 53, we just about get a scrum set

[Puja]

I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

You definitely should, but I totally understand why you stopped. Games over the last couple of years have been painful to watch in real time, let alone on a detailed, minute-by-minute watch.

I liked them for the exact point you mentioned around challenging assumptions/shining a light on the small but important points of detail that are easily missed in real-time.

We'll be able to see if the new laws do speed up the game too.

Maybe we'll all be nostalgic for classics such as Minute 53, we just about get a scrum set

Tbh, those are balms for my poor recapping fingers. After penning five paragraphs overanalysing one minor event that happened in Minute 52, it's quite nice to just be able to say "Minute 53: Both sides fail to scrummage" and move on.

Puja

[Danno]

While I agree that JWillis hasn't exactly got a long, proven history of internationals, I recall him impressing every time he's managed to get on the pitch for more than 2 seconds.

Puja

.

I should go back to doing the minute-by-minute recaps again. I stopped doing them, partly out of a lack of time (and because Amazon's system isn't conducive to the rewinding and pausing required to watch and commentate that way) and partly because I barely had the stomach to watch some of our latter performances once, let alone in microscopic detail, but I found they really challenged my assumptions around who had done well and badly. If we don't turn in utter drudge against Scotland, I'll see if I can make the time.

Puja

Yes please, I've missed them.

[Puja]

Willis having to be released back to Toulouse today, in a disruptive move that shocks everyone except those who have been paying attention. Obviously the Wasps and Wuss players are the definition of exceptional circumstances, but this is a disruption that we do not need (and even worse if he picks up a knock).

The news reports say that the team were training with a backrow of BCurry, JWillis, and Dombrandt yesterday. Hopefully that's a guide to what'll be selected.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

I can’t wait for Jngf to flip out if Curry wears 6.

[SDHoneymonster]

One of my moans about the original squad when named was that it featured a few too many options at openside at the expense of other positions, but when you take into account Willis was always going to have to travel back for fallow weekends outside of the window it makes a lot more sense. If the reports are true then that's the back row I would like to see, although I wonder if that's what Borthwick had in mind all along or whether Lawes' unavailability has made him change his plans.

[Banquo]

I can’t wait for Jngf to flip out if Curry wears 6.

less so than wearing 8, but it will be flipping awesome

[Timbo]

Daly out of the 6N’s with a hamstring injury.

[p/d]

So George set to be available to play next week

[SDHoneymonster]

Slade withdrawn, Watson in. Suspect that increases the chances of Farrell playing 12...

[Mikey Brown]

Daly out, Lawrence in, Slade out, Watson in, so who knows?

Still Kelly and Tuilagi at 12, Marchant and Lawrence at 13 to choose from?

[jngf]

One of my moans about the original squad when named was that it featured a few too many options at openside at the expense of other positions, but when you take into account Willis was always going to have to travel back for fallow weekends outside of the window it makes a lot more sense. If the reports are true then that's the back row I would like to see, although I wonder if that's what Borthwick had in mind all along or whether Lawes' unavailability has made him change his plans.

I actually think Borthwick deserves some credit for picking interchangeable back row players:

Dombrandt, Simmonds, Ludlam and Earl can cover 8

Earl, B Curry, J Willis, Ludlam and Simmonds can cover 7

Any of the back rowers selected could cover 6 if needed (with J Willis being top of the list for me)

[Mellsblue]

I cannot wait…

[Oakboy]

A back three of OHC, Watson and Steward appeals. Unfortunately, a centre pairing with either Tuilagi or Farrell doesn't. Kelly and Lawrence though . . .

[FKAS]

Daly out, Lawrence in, Slade out, Watson in, so who knows?

Still Kelly and Tuilagi at 12, Marchant and Lawrence at 13 to choose from?

9. JVP
10. Farrell
11. Freeman
12. Kelly/Manu
13. Lawrence
14. Watson
15. Steward

21. Youngs, 22. Smith, 23. Marchant

That backline has a lot to like about it, particularly if Borthwick goes with the wing split he did with Tigers last season. The left wing is encouraged to roam and the right wing is used as kick chase and hugs the touchline to give width. The centres are running threats and plenty to impetus to inject off the bench or Youngs to come on and manage the game (yes most of you don't like him but Borthwick is very likely to pick him).

[Banquo]

Have to say a Faz, Manu, Lawrence midfield doesn't fill me full of joy- the wingers would need to come in to see any ball . But then again, not sure what would from what we have available- maybe Smith, Kelly, Marchant, but a tad lightweight possibly.