New and Improved EPS Watch/Player Form Thread

[Banquo]

One of the reasons I'm such a huge Jonny May fan - he's the top professional era try-scorer for England, but only 6 of them are against lower level sides (and those are Samoa, Tonga, and Italy who are still pretty good), with 22/32 against Fra/Ire/Wal/SA/NZ/Aus.

Incredible when you think he was dropped after his sixth cap because he hadn't scored a try yet.

Puja

Jonny May definitely gets the most surprising improvement to top class award. (also amazing that he played centre for the u20's)- not sure how he 'avoided' a Lions call when one thinks of those who have had one.

It was total bollocks last tour, a sop to the Celts.

You need to stop sitting on the fence young fella!

[16th man]

Peel on why he turned down England: https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... -saracens/

“I know I might not get another chance to coach with England again. But what we decided as a family was that while I might not get that opportunity, if I did go for it now, I definitely would not get the chance to spend the time with my kids from the ages of 12 to 16 and 10 to 14.

“When I spoke to Steve, I told him it was a huge honour to be even considered for the job and I was super excited about it. But having had time to reflect, I felt that if I keep developing as a coach and working hard, I might have another chance in the future. If I don’t, I am fine with that, but I am never going to get the chance again to spend the next World Cup cycle with my kids.”

Fair enough really.

Puja

I like this. Much better than the guff about international rugby being all there is to life.

and much more diplomatic than saying "I can't be arsed coaching a team who are just going to be ordered to kick everything away".

[Which Tyler]

Peel on why he turned down England: https://12ft.io/proxy?ref=&q=https://ww ... -saracens/

“I know I might not get another chance to coach with England again. But what we decided as a family was that while I might not get that opportunity, if I did go for it now, I definitely would not get the chance to spend the time with my kids from the ages of 12 to 16 and 10 to 14.

“When I spoke to Steve, I told him it was a huge honour to be even considered for the job and I was super excited about it. But having had time to reflect, I felt that if I keep developing as a coach and working hard, I might have another chance in the future. If I don’t, I am fine with that, but I am never going to get the chance again to spend the next World Cup cycle with my kids.”

Fair enough really.

Puja

Huge respect for that

[Mr Mwenda]

Graham rowntree as a future England coach? This Munster v stormers game has been jolly exciting

[FKAS]

Graham rowntree as a future England coach? This Munster v stormers game has been jolly exciting

I think he's already been one.

Looks like he's taken to the top job rather well at Munster. Be interesting to see if he can back it up. There's no reason he can't have a go at the top job for England if he keeps building up his CV.

[Puja]

Still Batedbreath has added two more specialist coaches for the RWC - Joe Gray as lineout throwing coach and some guy called Jonathan Wilkinson as kicking coach, apparently just beating the French to hiring him.

You'll all be sad to know that the latter will apparently not restrict his punditry and he has arranged his contract to still be available for ITV.

Puja

[Mikey Brown]

Good. He’s the best thing about the ITV coverage. I honestly with they’d just let him ramble more and ditch Sir Clive.

Hasn’t he been working with basically all the England fly halves for years? I guess this is a more formal role?

[Puja]

Good. He’s the best thing about the ITV coverage. I honestly with they’d just let him ramble more and ditch Sir Clive.

Hasn’t he been working with basically all the England fly halves for years? I guess this is a more formal role?

I mean, I'm not against ditching Woodward in the slightest, but I'm surprised that you're so positive about Jonny. I still haven't recovered from the time he was employed to pundit an Italy 6N game, was asked about Paolo Garbisi and genuinely didn't know who he was or anything about him.

Puja

[Puja]

Interesting article about Joe Gray and his business that I found while internet wandering: https://www.businessleader.co.uk/rugby- ... -joe-gray/

Puja

[Mellsblue]

Interesting article about Joe Gray and his business that I found while internet wandering: https://www.businessleader.co.uk/rugby- ... -joe-gray/

Puja

Those products spam my Insta like there’s no tomorrow. He’s clearly not targeting elite sportsmen…

[Mellsblue]

Good. He’s the best thing about the ITV coverage. I honestly with they’d just let him ramble more and ditch Sir Clive.

Hasn’t he been working with basically all the England fly halves for years? I guess this is a more formal role?

I mean, I'm not against ditching Woodward in the slightest, but I'm surprised that you're so positive about Jonny. I still haven't recovered from the time he was employed to pundit an Italy 6N game, was asked about Paolo Garbisi and genuinely didn't know who he was or anything about him.

Puja

I like Jonny’s punditry. I view it as if it’s a comedy sketch where the lead character is half sports coach and half life coach. Tbh, he can do wrong in my eyes - he could walk into my house, curl one out in the middle of my living room, snog the long suffering Mrs Mellsblue and leave the front door open after he left and I’d still think ‘what a guy’.
I tried to imagine SCW as a comedy sketch about a washed up, underemployed ex-sports coach who just spouted the same rubbish that worked 30 years ago because he was blessed with a large group of world class players who were fitter than everyone else but for some reason that didn’t stop my desire to throw my tv through the window every time he spoke…

[Mikey Brown]

Good. He’s the best thing about the ITV coverage. I honestly with they’d just let him ramble more and ditch Sir Clive.

Hasn’t he been working with basically all the England fly halves for years? I guess this is a more formal role?

I mean, I'm not against ditching Woodward in the slightest, but I'm surprised that you're so positive about Jonny. I still haven't recovered from the time he was employed to pundit an Italy 6N game, was asked about Paolo Garbisi and genuinely didn't know who he was or anything about him.

Puja

To be fair it’s basically just me on here that enjoys his introspective ramblings. I would highly recommend watching his interview on (I think it’s called something like) the high performance podcast if you find the time. It’s a full hour of him dissecting all of his most bat-shit thoughts, theories, rituals and insecurities.

It’s a great peek in to what it takes to be the kind of person that succeeds in top-level sports, why and how you stay driven, if that’s really a good or natural thing etc.

He has no place at all being on tightly programmed, sound-bite and cliche led TV punditry gigs, but that’s why it’s so great to see him on there just stumbling into the vortex over and over while Mark Pougash desperately tries to keep everything on track.

[Mr Mwenda]

No issue with Wilko's punditry. Periodically makes some interesting points. At least he's not phoning it in like many others.

[Mikey Brown]

Well we all know stats are everything.



This one’s for you Jngf.

[Beasties]

I’m looking at that and wondering what all the fuss is about Ted Hill. Still. I just don’t get it. Take away the fact he jumps in the lineout and what’s left?

[FKAS]

I’m looking at that and wondering what all the fuss is about Ted Hill. Still. I just don’t get it. Take away the fact he jumps in the lineout and what’s left?

He's big, mobile and physical. He was also playing for a side that only remembered how to play rugby towards the end of the season. If Lawes is the template for what England want at 6 then Hill is a useful substitute.

[Tom Moore]

Hill's profile seems most like that of Martin. On which basis I'd be relatively happy trialling him as a lock without major Tom Croft concerns.

[FKAS]

Hill's profile seems most like that of Martin. On which basis I'd be relatively happy trialling him as a lock without major Tom Croft concerns.

Ted Hill is more than a stone lighter than Martin and was trialed by Eddie at lock the other summer with no success. He's a blindside that can cover 8. Under 18 stone (17st9 according to Bath website) is a bit light for an international lock. Depends on what style of play we're adopting.

Tom Croft played lock in Tigers 2009 run to Prem title and HEC final. A big backrow and strong front row made up for his lack of bulk, that and Ben Kay alongside him. England don't have that pack strength.

[Mikey Brown]

Yeah I don't see the appeal of Hill at lock at all. Either he has the talent to step up as a 6 or he doesn't. The usefulness of a versatile player who isn't particularly good in either position really seems to be overstated.

He's very athletic, physical and abrasive from what I've seen, but those stats don't seem to suggest much other than he can take lineouts and make a small number of dominant tackles. It's interesting that Martin's dominant tackle percentage is so low, but who knows how these are assessed or what volume of tackles he is making.

[Puja]

Yeah I don't see the appeal of Hill at lock at all. Either he has the talent to step up as a 6 or he doesn't. The usefulness of a versatile player who isn't particularly good in either position really seems to be overstated.

He's very athletic, physical and abrasive from what I've seen, but those stats don't seem to suggest much other than he can take lineouts and make a small number of dominant tackles. It's interesting that Martin's dominant tackle percentage is so low, but who knows how these are assessed or what volume of tackles he is making.

It's a weird data set for Martin - his form took off in the second half of the season, but that was when he was playing lock the majority of the time, so I don't think, from looking at the wording of those charts, that any of those games were counted. From a purely unscientific and anecdotal perspective, he does seem to make 1 or 2 *really* big tackles in a game and then puts in a lot of solid and competent tackles that probably wouldn't be counted as "dominant". He's not Underhill or Lawes yet - still a work-on (and I say that because his ceiling is so high).

I think Hill is in many people's minds on hope more than anything. He definitely has potential and the physical ingredients, and he put in some monstrous performances when he was breaking through, but I haven't seen him recently produce enough quality, regularly enough, to be in the England conversation. I wonder if being given the captaincy at Worcester so early, and so often being laden with the pressure of having to carry them, took a toll on his development? Hopefully he'll kick on with a full pre-season at his new club.

Puja

[fivepointer]

Hill's stats do surprise me. Whenever i watch him he's one of the most effective players on the pitch. He's certainly got great mobility and athleticism, he can put in a shift over 80 and does so much good work with and without the ball.
He's a 6. I think a really good one who can get better.

[Tom Moore]

Yeah I don't see the appeal of Hill at lock at all. Either he has the talent to step up as a 6 or he doesn't. The usefulness of a versatile player who isn't particularly good in either position really seems to be overstated.

He's very athletic, physical and abrasive from what I've seen, but those stats don't seem to suggest much other than he can take lineouts and make a small number of dominant tackles. It's interesting that Martin's dominant tackle percentage is so low, but who knows how these are assessed or what volume of tackles he is making.

It's a weird data set for Martin - his form took off in the second half of the season, but that was when he was playing lock the majority of the time, so I don't think, from looking at the wording of those charts, that any of those games were counted. From a purely unscientific and anecdotal perspective, he does seem to make 1 or 2 *really* big tackles in a game and then puts in a lot of solid and competent tackles that probably wouldn't be counted as "dominant". He's not Underhill or Lawes yet - still a work-on (and I say that because his ceiling is so high).

I think Hill is in many people's minds on hope more than anything. He definitely has potential and the physical ingredients, and he put in some monstrous performances when he was breaking through, but I haven't seen him recently produce enough quality, regularly enough, to be in the England conversation. I wonder if being given the captaincy at Worcester so early, and so often being laden with the pressure of having to carry them, took a toll on his development? Hopefully he'll kick on with a full pre-season at his new club.

Puja

He's in my mind as someone who can jump in a lineout and isn't Charlie Ewels.

[jngf]

Yeah I don't see the appeal of Hill at lock at all. Either he has the talent to step up as a 6 or he doesn't. The usefulness of a versatile player who isn't particularly good in either position really seems to be overstated.

He's very athletic, physical and abrasive from what I've seen, but those stats don't seem to suggest much other than he can take lineouts and make a small number of dominant tackles. It's interesting that Martin's dominant tackle percentage is so low, but who knows how these are assessed or what volume of tackles he is making.

It's a weird data set for Martin - his form took off in the second half of the season, but that was when he was playing lock the majority of the time, so I don't think, from looking at the wording of those charts, that any of those games were counted. From a purely unscientific and anecdotal perspective, he does seem to make 1 or 2 *really* big tackles in a game and then puts in a lot of solid and competent tackles that probably wouldn't be counted as "dominant". He's not Underhill or Lawes yet - still a work-on (and I say that because his ceiling is so high).

I think Hill is in many people's minds on hope more than anything. He definitely has potential and the physical ingredients, and he put in some monstrous performances when he was breaking through, but I haven't seen him recently produce enough quality, regularly enough, to be in the England conversation. I wonder if being given the captaincy at Worcester so early, and so often being laden with the pressure of having to carry them, took a toll on his development? Hopefully he'll kick on with a full pre-season at his new club.

Puja

He's in my mind as someone who can jump in a lineout and isn't Charlie Ewels.

I’m interested to see how Sutton Bonnington’s locks pan out - personally would love to see Itoje and Lawes dogging it out for the “athletic” berth and Chessum, Ribbans and ideally a rejuvenated Launchbury challenging for the tighthead lock spot. I do think we need some more of the carrying from a standing start in heavy traffic from somewhere in the second row - so maybe that puts a player like Martin more in the frame?

[FKAS]

It's a weird data set for Martin - his form took off in the second half of the season, but that was when he was playing lock the majority of the time, so I don't think, from looking at the wording of those charts, that any of those games were counted. From a purely unscientific and anecdotal perspective, he does seem to make 1 or 2 *really* big tackles in a game and then puts in a lot of solid and competent tackles that probably wouldn't be counted as "dominant". He's not Underhill or Lawes yet - still a work-on (and I say that because his ceiling is so high).

I think Hill is in many people's minds on hope more than anything. He definitely has potential and the physical ingredients, and he put in some monstrous performances when he was breaking through, but I haven't seen him recently produce enough quality, regularly enough, to be in the England conversation. I wonder if being given the captaincy at Worcester so early, and so often being laden with the pressure of having to carry them, took a toll on his development? Hopefully he'll kick on with a full pre-season at his new club.

Puja

He's in my mind as someone who can jump in a lineout and isn't Charlie Ewels.

I’m interested to see how Sutton Bonnington’s locks pan out - personally would love to see Itoje and Lawes dogging it out for the “athletic” berth and Chessum, Ribbans and ideally a rejuvenated Launchbury challenging for the tighthead lock spot. I do think we need some more of the carrying from a standing start in heavy traffic from somewhere in the second row - so maybe that puts a player like Martin more in the frame?

Launchbury hasn't been named in any squads so I don't think he's in consideration.

Lawes is a backrow now as a starting option, he might get used as a lock off the bench. Isiekwe is I suspect the Itoje understudy. Hill, Chessum, Ribbans and Martin fighting it for the tighthead lock.

[Puja]

He's in my mind as someone who can jump in a lineout and isn't Charlie Ewels.

I’m interested to see how Sutton Bonnington’s locks pan out - personally would love to see Itoje and Lawes dogging it out for the “athletic” berth and Chessum, Ribbans and ideally a rejuvenated Launchbury challenging for the tighthead lock spot. I do think we need some more of the carrying from a standing start in heavy traffic from somewhere in the second row - so maybe that puts a player like Martin more in the frame?

Launchbury hasn't been named in any squads so I don't think he's in consideration.

Lawes is a backrow now as a starting option, he might get used as a lock off the bench. Isiekwe is I suspect the Itoje understudy. Hill, Chessum, Ribbans and Martin fighting it for the tighthead lock.

Isiekwe's not in the squad either.

Puja