Corbyn: Doing ok for a student union debater or a potential PM?

[UKHamlet]

I resigned because of Tony Blair who moved the party to the centre to attract floating voters and disenchanted Tories
and left a huge void where I was as I was on the left of the old party and felt that they didn't represent my views.
Over 100,000 people left the party between 1997 and 2001, and I suspect that many of them were disenchanted socialists.
I liked Ed Mband because he was more centre left than centre. I gave money to the party ,but they were still addicted to
neo liberalism, which is aka Thatcherite economics, Reaganomics, or trickle down economics (which is actually more trickle up than
trickle down). Last election although I have always voted Labour, the manifesto had some good things in it, but George Monbiot
called it the longest till receipt in history, which I agreed with. I have rejoined because of Corbyn who is more inclusive of the left.
It is just such a pity that the Overton Window has moved to the right in the UK.

So Hammy regards me as a Green (no) Hippy (no) Trot (no) any of the others (no)

I am just a democratic socialist

Obviously there will be some who are old Labour, hell I am, but I'm also sensible Labour and I know when someone is out of their depth.

[UKHamlet]

Yes, missed a majority by 0.41% pts among members, but still got more than double the next best contender.

It doesn't matter, he didn't get a majority of the membership. He probably would have scraped a majority if we'd been forced to a second ballot, but because the party has been hijacked by a bunch of farking hippies, Trots, Greens, cretins and malevolent cnts paying three quid each, that didn't happen.

Sour grapes. This entryism narrative is so lazy.

Sitting in LP meetings listening to them would change your mind. Wooly thinking doesn't even begin to cover it.

[Sandydragon]

At the moment, it feels like Labour under Corbyn are just speaking to themselves. None of them seem interested in a broader appeal. Knock Blair and Thatcher all you like, but towin the victories they did, they appealed to supporters who wouldn't normally have voted for them. At the moment, Corbyn doesn't even seem to be connecting with labour voter.

[glamorganmorgan]

I resigned because of Tony Blair who moved the party to the centre to attract floating voters and disenchanted Tories
and left a huge void where I was as I was on the left of the old party and felt that they didn't represent my views.
Over 100,000 people left the party between 1997 and 2001, and I suspect that many of them were disenchanted socialists.
I liked Ed Mband because he was more centre left than centre. I gave money to the party ,but they were still addicted to
neo liberalism, which is aka Thatcherite economics, Reaganomics, or trickle down economics (which is actually more trickle up than
trickle down). Last election although I have always voted Labour, the manifesto had some good things in it, but George Monbiot
called it the longest till receipt in history, which I agreed with. I have rejoined because of Corbyn who is more inclusive of the left.
It is just such a pity that the Overton Window has moved to the right in the UK.

So Hammy regards me as a Green (no) Hippy (no) Trot (no) any of the others (no)

I am just a democratic socialist

Obviously there will be some who are old Labour, hell I am, but I'm also sensible Labour and I know when someone is out of their depth.

someone out of their depth? me ?laughable if that is the point

[UKHamlet]

No Corbyn. He is completely out of his depth.

[glamorganmorgan]

No Corbyn. He is completely out of his depth.

I think the leadership came as a bit of a shock. He does need to get out more and appeal
to a wider audience

[UKHamlet]

No entryists eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... purge.html

[glamorganmorgan]

No entryists eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... purge.html

it is a Tory rag, so everything has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

[UKHamlet]

No entryists eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... purge.html

it is a Tory rag, so everything has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I expected that, so tell me where they are factually incorrect? Bear in mind I know all the people they cite and can vouch that what they say is 100% accurate.

[glamorganmorgan]

No entryists eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... purge.html

it is a Tory rag, so everything has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I expected that, so tell me where they are factually incorrect? Bear in mind I know all the people they cite and can vouch that what they say is 100% accurate.

The problem of entryism exists, but the Telegraph does not say but infers that all of Momentum are hard left entryists
which is not true.

[UKHamlet]

it is a Tory rag, so everything has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

I expected that, so tell me where they are factually incorrect? Bear in mind I know all the people they cite and can vouch that what they say is 100% accurate.

The problem of entryism exists, but the Telegraph does not say but infers that all of Momentum are hard left entryists
which is not true.

Undoubtedly the leadership of Momentum is mad as a box of frogs and if you think they won't steer the organisation in such a way as to support their aims, you are mistaken.

[glamorganmorgan]

I expected that, so tell me where they are factually incorrect? Bear in mind I know all the people they cite and can vouch that what they say is 100% accurate.

The problem of entryism exists, but the Telegraph does not say but infers that all of Momentum are hard left entryists
which is not true.

Undoubtedly the leadership of Momentum is mad as a box of frogs and if you think they won't steer the organisation in such a way as to support their aims, you are mistaken.

Sorry Hammy, I didn't say that.

[Zhivago]

No entryists eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... purge.html

No one claims there's no entryism. The point is that the doubling (or more) of the membership is not due to entryism. Of course there's a small amount of entryism, but the whole entryism narrative is overblown.

[UKHamlet]

No entryists eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... purge.html

No one claims there's no entryism. The point is that the doubling (or more) of the membership is not due to entryism. Of course there's a small amount of entryism, but the whole entryism narrative is overblown.

So, the fact of seriously whacko people leading the single largest organisation inside Labour is an overblown concern. Beg to differ.

[Zhivago]

No entryists eh? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politic ... purge.html

No one claims there's no entryism. The point is that the doubling (or more) of the membership is not due to entryism. Of course there's a small amount of entryism, but the whole entryism narrative is overblown.

So, the fact of seriously whacko people leading the single largest organisation inside Labour is an overblown concern. Beg to differ.

Momentum is not inside labour. It's only supportive of labour. It is organised democratically. At the moment it's organising a campaign to encourage new voters to enrol on the electoral register... oooh sounds like scary hard-left activities!!!1

[glamorganmorgan]

No one claims there's no entryism. The point is that the doubling (or more) of the membership is not due to entryism. Of course there's a small amount of entryism, but the whole entryism narrative is overblown.

So, the fact of seriously whacko people leading the single largest organisation inside Labour is an overblown concern. Beg to differ.

Momentum is not inside labour. It's only supportive of labour. It is organised democratically. At the moment it's organising a campaign to encourage new voters to enrol on the electoral register... oooh sounds like scary hard-left activities!!!1

gosh that is scary

[gthedog]

Obviously there will be some who are old Labour, hell I am, but I'm also sensible Labour and I know when someone is out of their depth.

Lolz

[OptimisticJock]

As to the media, Corbyn has managed so far with few in the media in his corner. The Independence movement in Scotland managed 45% with zero media support and in the face of a succsesson of uncontested lies. Perhaps the tide is turning.

That's quite a simplistic view of the indyref.

[Billyfish]

As to the media, Corbyn has managed so far with few in the media in his corner. The Independence movement in Scotland managed 45% with zero media support and in the face of a succsesson of uncontested lies. Perhaps the tide is turning.

That's quite a simplistic view of the indyref.

Yup, and biased to boot. Put it this way instead; if everyone believed what the media were saying about independence it would not have got 45% of the vote as the vast bulk of the media were not neutral on the subject.

[kk67]

Yes, probably coz most of that membership were c##ts. I have never laughed so much as when listening to radio 4 of a morning to the array of confused androginous post-Blairites repeating the same bland spin, helpless against the little beardy weirdly gently speaking the truth as he saw it. F##k them a' the horroble weasels I hope that an end to them.

It's very interesting. Like a bizarre social experiment. Day 9 and it has been decided to introduce a real person to the house.

I hope, minimum, this little era pulls politics back to the centre and away from the right.

Yup,....all of that. The PLP look like a bunch of right-wing apologists and entrepreneurs looking for their next meal ticket from the private sector.

[Zhivago]

Yes, probably coz most of that membership were c##ts. I have never laughed so much as when listening to radio 4 of a morning to the array of confused androginous post-Blairites repeating the same bland spin, helpless against the little beardy weirdly gently speaking the truth as he saw it. F##k them a' the horroble weasels I hope that an end to them.

It's very interesting. Like a bizarre social experiment. Day 9 and it has been decided to introduce a real person to the house.

I hope, minimum, this little era pulls politics back to the centre and away from the right.

Yup,....all of that. The PLP look like a bunch of right-wing apologists and entrepreneurs looking for their next meal ticket from the private sector.

That's an insult to entrepeneurs

[UGagain]

Corbyn needs one or a few headkickers around him. His own version of a Mandelson.

A few of the PLP need to go to concentrate minds. Tom Watson would be a good scalp in my opinion.

And John McDonnell has to be demoted. Far too neoliberal. 'Closing the deficit' is playing the neoliberal game.

As for Momentum, FDR didn't come up with the New Deal because of Democratic Party pressure. He adopted it to save the Democratic Party from defeat by socialist and communist populist movements.

[Stom]

He may not be the right man, but he has the right views. We need that kind of democratic socialism. The kind that Sanders is preaching in the US. It's just a shame that we have no equivalent politician anymore.

He needs to appeal to other people, though. He hasn't built upon his support in the slightest. He needs someone in his team to actually run his campaign, and he needs to realise it IS a campaign. He's not a simple politician anymore, and leading the Labour party as such will not get him where he needs to be. He needs to create and maintain a movement. Get youth votes. Get minority votes. Get all those groups who are likely to shout long and hard onto his side, into his campaign.

But he won't do that. So he won't be the right man. But who could be?

[jared_7]

Corbyn was elected for a reason, and its because half the country is sick of the Blairites offering no actual opposition to the cr*p the Tories are dishing up in Parliament.

The problem is neoliberal dogma is so engrained in most of the Labour party now, that rather than seeing Corbyn's success as an signal to move themselves back towards the left - bringing a large portion of their right-leaning constituents and Corbyn's left together - they instead are sulking, complaining, undermining the party and most of all, not listening to the people on the ground.

The people want change. Corbyn brings it but isn't electable. And the "electable" politicians aren't for the people.

[Donny osmond]

Corbyn was elected for a reason, and its because half the country is sick of the Blairites offering no actual opposition to the cr*p the Tories are dishing up in Parliament.

The problem is neoliberal dogma is so engrained in most of the Labour party now, that rather than seeing Corbyn's success as an signal to move themselves back towards the left - bringing a large portion of their right-leaning constituents and Corbyn's left together - they instead are sulking, complaining, undermining the party and most of all, not listening to the people on the ground.

The people want change. Corbyn brings it but isn't electable. And the "electable" politicians aren't for the people.

I have been labouring (BOOM) under the impression Corbyn was elected as a filler. He's only there to lose an election and resign whereupon David Milliband will come riding to the Labour party's rescue. Its all a neoliberal plot.



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