Game 3 : Scotland v Romania

[Big D]

I'd be picking the team that gives us the best chance to create opportunities and win. That is Jones at 13 and Duhan and Graham on the wing. They are solid enough in defence (Steyn has missed more tackles at international level than the others this year IIRC although might be higher %) and create more opportunities than alternatives. Tempted by Smith at 15 over Kinghorn though.

Easy to say Darcy should have passed, so should Smith but he managed to end up scoring after being tackled. The Irish defence is unlikely to be as accommodating.

[Mikey Brown]

If anything it’s Steyn vs VDM. I don’t get why that question is even being asked, other than Darcy’s failure to give that pass vs SA.

I’d stick with Redpath on the bench. He’s playing better and I’d rather end up with ST at 13 than HJ at 12.

Is Darge realistic 8 cover? Fagerson doesn’t seem to be near top form and I wouldn’t be too upset if Watson started, though I think the commentary team were going a bit OTT about his performance.

Still not sure on the other backs spot.

Darge played 8 for the U20s to accommodate Boyle.. I think he is such a talent he could play anywhere. And like Barclay end up as an excellent 8

As to Darcy,,.....,,.,.......everyone says we need to be clinical and convert every chance against Ireland. Darcy failed badly with the non pass v SA. He also blew a couple v Romania trying to score himself. Lad is a genius but there is a question mark.

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though. Really solid honest player but Darcy is a level above in everything. Picking solid won't beat Ireland, and losing by 3 is the same as losing by 14. We have to be brave enough to gamble.

Redpath on the bench for me but the other option is Kinghorn to ten and Russell to 12 of we're chasing the game, with Smith on the bench.

Yep. It's similar to the criticisms of Hogg fluffing those chances that nobody else could have created. Of course we need to be more clinical, and that moment vs SA was hugely frustrating, but the net gain of Graham vs Steyn isn't comparable IMO.

Russell at 12 is fun every so often but I'd only be putting Kinghorn there if Russell is injured anyway.

[septic 9]

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though.
.

Steyn appears in that position a lot. A lot more than Graham, for club and country. It's a set move off the training field FFS.

I'd likely still start Graham but he is not perfect and could cost ius. Again.
Which would leave us with Duhan or Steyn ( who is far fat more than an honest player). Duhan can do stupendous things no doubt. But often enough
? Does he look for work enough? Is his upright into contact like Mish a gift to the Irish?

I don't think the selection should be clear cut and I don't envy Townsend having to make it.

[paddy no 11]

The Ireland match will likely be decided by lineout

Scotland have an edge in backs, Ireland the forwards

[switchskier]

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though.
.

Steyn appears in that position a lot. A lot more than Graham, for club and country. It's a set move off the training field FFS.

I'd likely still start Graham but he is not perfect and could cost ius. Again.
Which would leave us with Duhan or Steyn ( who is far fat more than an honest player). Duhan can do stupendous things no doubt. But often enough
? Does he look for work enough? Is his upright into contact like Mish a gift to the Irish?

I don't think the selection should be clear cut and I don't envy Townsend having to make it.

I love Steyn. He's made the absolute most of the gifts available to him and you have to admire so eone that has earned everything every step of the way. His gifts are great compared to (I assume) you or I.

But those gifts are limited compared to the other two. If the coaches believe in themselves then they have to believe that they can get more out of DvDM and Darcy. The ceiling is just higher.

And I don't think that Steyn has the burst to make that set piece move work. The space closes before he has to make a decision because he's that step and a half slower over the first ten meters.

[septic 9]

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though.
.

Steyn appears in that position a lot. A lot more than Graham, for club and country. It's a set move off the training field FFS.

I'd likely still start Graham but he is not perfect and could cost ius. Again.
Which would leave us with Duhan or Steyn ( who is far fat more than an honest player). Duhan can do stupendous things no doubt. But often enough
? Does he look for work enough? Is his upright into contact like Mish a gift to the Irish?

I don't think the selection should be clear cut and I don't envy Townsend having to make it.

I love Steyn. He's made the absolute most of the gifts available to him and you have to admire so eone that has earned everything every step of the way. His gifts are great compared to (I assume) you or I.

But those gifts are limited compared to the other two. If the coaches believe in themselves then they have to believe that they can get more out of DvDM and Darcy. The ceiling is just higher.

And I don't think that Steyn has the burst to make that set piece move work. The space closes before he has to make a decision because he's that step and a half slower over the first ten meters.

It's not a burst that put Graham in that position. As I said it's a training ground set play. Anyway I agree that the "ceiling" is higher for the other two, if ceiling means more likely to score an individual try etc. Thing about Steyn is faster than you think and he consistently, perhaps more than any other of our backs, makes correct decisions. He passes in that position. Every time. It's a tough choice

[septic 9]

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though.
.

Steyn appears in that position a lot. A lot more than Graham, for club and country. It's a set move off the training field FFS.

I'd likely still start Graham but he is not perfect and could cost ius. Again.
Which would leave us with Duhan or Steyn ( who is far fat more than an honest player). Duhan can do stupendous things no doubt. But often enough
? Does he look for work enough? Is his upright into contact like Mish a gift to the Irish?

I don't think the selection should be clear cut and I don't envy Townsend having to make it.

I love Steyn. He's made the absolute most of the gifts available to him and you have to admire so eone that has earned everything every step of the way. His gifts are great compared to (I assume) you or I.

But those gifts are limited compared to the other two. If the coaches believe in themselves then they have to believe that they can get more out of DvDM and Darcy. The ceiling is just higher.

And I don't think that Steyn has the burst to make that set piece move work. The space closes before he has to make a decision because he's that step and a half slower over the first ten meters.

It's not a burst that put Graham in that position. As I said it's a training ground set play. Anyway I agree that the "ceiling" is higher for the other two, if ceiling means more likely to score an individual try etc. Thing about Steyn is faster than you think and he consistently, perhaps more than any other of our backs, makes correct decisions. He passes in that position. Every time. It's a tough choice

[Cameo]

If anything it’s Steyn vs VDM. I don’t get why that question is even being asked, other than Darcy’s failure to give that pass vs SA.

I’d stick with Redpath on the bench. He’s playing better and I’d rather end up with ST at 13 than HJ at 12.

Is Darge realistic 8 cover? Fagerson doesn’t seem to be near top form and I wouldn’t be too upset if Watson started, though I think the commentary team were going a bit OTT about his performance.

Still not sure on the other backs spot.

Darge played 8 for the U20s to accommodate Boyle.. I think he is such a talent he could play anywhere. And like Barclay end up as an excellent 8

As to Darcy,,.....,,.,.......everyone says we need to be clinical and convert every chance against Ireland. Darcy failed badly with the non pass v SA. He also blew a couple v Romania trying to score himself. Lad is a genius but there is a question mark.

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though. Really solid honest player but Darcy is a level above in everything. Picking solid won't beat Ireland, and losing by 3 is the same as losing by 14. We have to be brave enough to gamble.

Redpath on the bench for me but the other option is Kinghorn to ten and Russell to 12 of we're chasing the game, with Smith on the bench.

Personally, I also think the failure to pass against SA was overblown. Yes, he should have passed, but it was by no means a certain try if he had, whereas if he had successfully evaded the tackle from behind and made 10 more metres before passing, it probably was.

Shouldn't forget he also set up a couple vs Romania where he could have gone himself. No one is flawless and we won't be against Ireland, but Graham gives us more chance than Steyn.

[Jocky]

Games are very rare if not at all where players make the correct decision every time. Our wingers aren't going to get the space against Ireland and although I wouldn't be disappointed to see Steyn play, but Darcy has to start and think we stick with the same backline as SA game. The only position in the backs I'm unsure of is 9 - Horne offers more impact off the bench, but is White under a bit of pressure from Price?

[septic 9]

Darge played 8 for the U20s to accommodate Boyle.. I think he is such a talent he could play anywhere. And like Barclay end up as an excellent 8

As to Darcy,,.....,,.,.......everyone says we need to be clinical and convert every chance against Ireland. Darcy failed badly with the non pass v SA. He also blew a couple v Romania trying to score himself. Lad is a genius but there is a question mark.

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though. Really solid honest player but Darcy is a level above in everything. Picking solid won't beat Ireland, and losing by 3 is the same as losing by 14. We have to be brave enough to gamble.

Redpath on the bench for me but the other option is Kinghorn to ten and Russell to 12 of we're chasing the game, with Smith on the bench.

Personally, I also think the failure to pass against SA was overblown. Yes, he should have passed, but it was by no means a certain try if he had, whereas if he had successfully evaded the tackle from behind and made 10 more metres before passing, it probably was.

Shouldn't forget he also set up a couple vs Romania where he could have gone himself. No one is flawless and we won't be against Ireland, but Graham gives us more chance than Steyn.

Wasn't it a 3 on 1 on his outside? Criminally poor decision. Having weathered the SA storm we would have been in the lead iirc. Different momentum. Can't say we would have won but potentially,............it was a big big play where a very p9r decision cost us dear. Huge and cannot be downplayed.

[Donny osmond]

From memory I think it was a 2 on 1 if he had given it. Either way, I agree with septic it was a horrendous missed opportunity.

I do find it slightly puzzling tho that DVDM has wasted a bunch of chances to at least use possession better and there's no mention of it? Ok none nearly as clear as that Darcey miss, but even so it's part of the same problem of being selfish and not smart with possession. VDM's preference for looking for contact and his inability to draw and pass is why I'd choose Steyn over him right now.

Like, I'm not that fussed who starts, they're all pretty good, just saying if we do carve out a chance that needs a bit of teamwork to finish, Steyn would be my pick above either of the others.

[switchskier]

This is where I wish we had an NFL style combine event or PFF scores to really compare and contrast. But we don't,. Best I can do is a ruck.com report from the 2022 6N that said that Darcy Graham clocked the fastest sprint time in that championship at 19.69m/s (ahead of Penaud, Rees-Zammit, Hogg and Malins, in that order). In terms of try scoring stats:

Darcy Graham has 170 points in 60 Edinburgh appearances (2.6 points per game) and 120 points in 38 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 20 defenders, made 9 clean breaks and made 337 meters on 23 carries (14.6 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 55.6%playing SA and Romania.

Duhan van der Merwe has 225 points in 94 club appearances (2.4 points per game) and 105 points in 33 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 17 defenders, made 3 clean breaks and made 154 meters on 11 carries (14 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 59%, playing SA and Tonga.

Kyle Steyn has 135 points in 80 club appearances (1.7 points per game) and 50 points in 15 Scotland appearances (3.3 points per game).in the RWC 2023 he's beaten 7 defenders, made 5 clean breaks and made 197 Meyers on 16 carries (12.3 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 80%, playing Tonga and Romania.

Interestingly, Scotland have ten more offloads (44) than any other team, with Ireland (34) next.

[Cameo]

Steyn doesn't get in position to attempt that pass though. Really solid honest player but Darcy is a level above in everything. Picking solid won't beat Ireland, and losing by 3 is the same as losing by 14. We have to be brave enough to gamble.

Redpath on the bench for me but the other option is Kinghorn to ten and Russell to 12 of we're chasing the game, with Smith on the bench.

Personally, I also think the failure to pass against SA was overblown. Yes, he should have passed, but it was by no means a certain try if he had, whereas if he had successfully evaded the tackle from behind and made 10 more metres before passing, it probably was.

Shouldn't forget he also set up a couple vs Romania where he could have gone himself. No one is flawless and we won't be against Ireland, but Graham gives us more chance than Steyn.

Wasn't it a 3 on 1 on his outside? Criminally poor decision. Having weathered the SA storm we would have been in the lead iirc. Different momentum. Can't say we would have won but potentially,............it was a big big play where a very p9r decision cost us dear. Huge and cannot be downplayed.

If he had given it instantly it was a two on one but with loads of people coming across. If he had held on for a bit and then given it Kinghorn was taken out so it would have been a 1 on zero, but with loads of people coming across. b


Again, I'm not saying he shouldn't have passed, or even tbat it wasnt a bad mistake but it's been turned into this simple chance to score a guaranteed try that I just don't think reflects reality.

[Big D]

Personally, I also think the failure to pass against SA was overblown. Yes, he should have passed, but it was by no means a certain try if he had, whereas if he had successfully evaded the tackle from behind and made 10 more metres before passing, it probably was.

Shouldn't forget he also set up a couple vs Romania where he could have gone himself. No one is flawless and we won't be against Ireland, but Graham gives us more chance than Steyn.

Wasn't it a 3 on 1 on his outside? Criminally poor decision. Having weathered the SA storm we would have been in the lead iirc. Different momentum. Can't say we would have won but potentially,............it was a big big play where a very p9r decision cost us dear. Huge and cannot be downplayed.

If he had given it instantly it was a two on one but with loads of people coming across. If he had held on for a bit and then given it Kinghorn was taken out so it would have been a 1 on zero, but with loads of people coming across. b


Again, I'm not saying he shouldn't have passed, or even tbat it wasnt a bad mistake but it's been turned into this simple chance to score a guaranteed try that I just don't think reflects reality.

Would have taken Duhan outmuscling the covering defence probably 5m short of the line IIRC. He has to give the pass.

[Big D]

This is where I wish we had an NFL style combine event or PFF scores to really compare and contrast. But we don't,. Best I can do is a ruck.com report from the 2022 6N that said that Darcy Graham clocked the fastest sprint time in that championship at 19.69m/s (ahead of Penaud, Rees-Zammit, Hogg and Malins, in that order). In terms of try scoring stats:

Darcy Graham has 170 points in 60 Edinburgh appearances (2.6 points per game) and 120 points in 38 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 20 defenders, made 9 clean breaks and made 337 meters on 23 carries (14.6 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 55.6%playing SA and Romania.

Duhan van der Merwe has 225 points in 94 club appearances (2.4 points per game) and 105 points in 33 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 17 defenders, made 3 clean breaks and made 154 meters on 11 carries (14 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 59%, playing SA and Tonga.

Kyle Steyn has 135 points in 80 club appearances (1.7 points per game) and 50 points in 15 Scotland appearances (3.3 points per game).in the RWC 2023 he's beaten 7 defenders, made 5 clean breaks and made 197 Meyers on 16 carries (12.3 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 80%, playing Tonga and Romania.

Interestingly, Scotland have ten more offloads (44) than any other team, with Ireland (34) next.

RWC stats are too small a sample size really. Graham attempting 11 and missing 1as per espn with 8 being Romanians doesn't tell a lot.

PFF style scores wouldn't help either as all 3 are used differently.

[switchskier]

This is where I wish we had an NFL style combine event or PFF scores to really compare and contrast. But we don't,. Best I can do is a ruck.com report from the 2022 6N that said that Darcy Graham clocked the fastest sprint time in that championship at 19.69m/s (ahead of Penaud, Rees-Zammit, Hogg and Malins, in that order). In terms of try scoring stats:

Darcy Graham has 170 points in 60 Edinburgh appearances (2.6 points per game) and 120 points in 38 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 20 defenders, made 9 clean breaks and made 337 meters on 23 carries (14.6 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 55.6%playing SA and Romania.

Duhan van der Merwe has 225 points in 94 club appearances (2.4 points per game) and 105 points in 33 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 17 defenders, made 3 clean breaks and made 154 meters on 11 carries (14 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 59%, playing SA and Tonga.

Kyle Steyn has 135 points in 80 club appearances (1.7 points per game) and 50 points in 15 Scotland appearances (3.3 points per game).in the RWC 2023 he's beaten 7 defenders, made 5 clean breaks and made 197 meters on 16 carries (12.3 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 80%, playing Tonga and Romania.

Interestingly, Scotland have ten more offloads (44) than any other team, with Ireland (34) next.

RWC stats are too small a sample size really. Graham attempting 11 and missing 1as per espn with 8 being Romanians doesn't tell a lot.

PFF style scores wouldn't help either as all 3 are used differently.

RWC stats are too small a sample but are readily available at least. Whilst they should not be treated as definitive, they do seem to confirm what we all think - that Graham and VDM pose more outright threat than Steyn.

PFF would help as the whole point is that they can be broken down into different fascets of the game, but there just isn't the money in rugby it seems sadly.

[Big D]

This is where I wish we had an NFL style combine event or PFF scores to really compare and contrast. But we don't,. Best I can do is a ruck.com report from the 2022 6N that said that Darcy Graham clocked the fastest sprint time in that championship at 19.69m/s (ahead of Penaud, Rees-Zammit, Hogg and Malins, in that order). In terms of try scoring stats:

Darcy Graham has 170 points in 60 Edinburgh appearances (2.6 points per game) and 120 points in 38 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 20 defenders, made 9 clean breaks and made 337 meters on 23 carries (14.6 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 55.6%playing SA and Romania.

Duhan van der Merwe has 225 points in 94 club appearances (2.4 points per game) and 105 points in 33 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 17 defenders, made 3 clean breaks and made 154 meters on 11 carries (14 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 59%, playing SA and Tonga.

Kyle Steyn has 135 points in 80 club appearances (1.7 points per game) and 50 points in 15 Scotland appearances (3.3 points per game).in the RWC 2023 he's beaten 7 defenders, made 5 clean breaks and made 197 meters on 16 carries (12.3 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 80%, playing Tonga and Romania.

Interestingly, Scotland have ten more offloads (44) than any other team, with Ireland (34) next.

RWC stats are too small a sample size really. Graham attempting 11 and missing 1as per espn with 8 being Romanians doesn't tell a lot.

PFF style scores wouldn't help either as all 3 are used differently.

RWC stats are too small a sample but are readily available at least. Whilst they should not be treated as definitive, they do seem to confirm what we all think - that Graham and VDM pose more outright threat than Steyn.

PFF would help as the whole point is that they can be broken down into different fascets of the game, but there just isn't the money in rugby it seems sadly.

PFF works because ether can break down plays to a granular level with players having one job maybe two max per play where it is known almost exactly what they are meant to do as per the play that is drawn up. That isn't possible with any reap accuracy in rugby. Same as with football too.

[Mikey Brown]

This is where I wish we had an NFL style combine event or PFF scores to really compare and contrast. But we don't,. Best I can do is a ruck.com report from the 2022 6N that said that Darcy Graham clocked the fastest sprint time in that championship at 19.69m/s (ahead of Penaud, Rees-Zammit, Hogg and Malins, in that order). In terms of try scoring stats:

Darcy Graham has 170 points in 60 Edinburgh appearances (2.6 points per game) and 120 points in 38 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 20 defenders, made 9 clean breaks and made 337 meters on 23 carries (14.6 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 55.6%playing SA and Romania.

Duhan van der Merwe has 225 points in 94 club appearances (2.4 points per game) and 105 points in 33 Scotland appearances (3.2 points per game). In the RWC 2023 he's beaten 17 defenders, made 3 clean breaks and made 154 meters on 11 carries (14 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 59%, playing SA and Tonga.

Kyle Steyn has 135 points in 80 club appearances (1.7 points per game) and 50 points in 15 Scotland appearances (3.3 points per game).in the RWC 2023 he's beaten 7 defenders, made 5 clean breaks and made 197 meters on 16 carries (12.3 meters per carry). He has a tackle success rate of 80%, playing Tonga and Romania.

Interestingly, Scotland have ten more offloads (44) than any other team, with Ireland (34) next.

RWC stats are too small a sample size really. Graham attempting 11 and missing 1as per espn with 8 being Romanians doesn't tell a lot.

PFF style scores wouldn't help either as all 3 are used differently.

RWC stats are too small a sample but are readily available at least. Whilst they should not be treated as definitive, they do seem to confirm what we all think - that Graham and VDM pose more outright threat than Steyn.

PFF would help as the whole point is that they can be broken down into different fascets of the game, but there just isn't the money in rugby it seems sadly.

I found those quite interesting. Actually looks to me like Steyn is closer to the other two than expected (though didn’t play vs South Africa) while being a much better tackler and more rounded in general.

[Big D]

RWC stats are too small a sample size really. Graham attempting 11 and missing 1as per espn with 8 being Romanians doesn't tell a lot.

PFF style scores wouldn't help either as all 3 are used differently.

RWC stats are too small a sample but are readily available at least. Whilst they should not be treated as definitive, they do seem to confirm what we all think - that Graham and VDM pose more outright threat than Steyn.

PFF would help as the whole point is that they can be broken down into different fascets of the game, but there just isn't the money in rugby it seems sadly.

I found those quite interesting. Actually looks to me like Steyn is closer to the other two than expected (though didn’t play vs South Africa) while being a much better tackler and more rounded in general.

The tackling stats quoted aren't correct according to ESPN. They have Graham missing 1 from 11. Which is still too small a sample size.