Europe Out or In?

[Billyfish]

....or does it even matter?

Been thinking about this recently and then I stopped.

[BBD]

Thinking is dangerous, kindly desist immediately.

[Tre]

Well since they changed the way the money was divided, the PrO'12 teams have mostly been out.

[UKHamlet]

The EU is a corporate enabler, with little in the way of democratic safeguards, but it could act as a bulwark against the predations of tin pot conservatives, who want to turn their countries into shopping malls. Reform it to make it more democratic and enshrine human rights as the central pillar and you'll have a worthwhile organisation.

[Lizard]

61 years since a major land war in Europe and counting...

[UKHamlet]

61 years since a major land war in Europe and counting...

How much of that is because of the EU?

[rhiwbinaboy]

I shall be voting out.


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[WiganShark]

In for me.

[Which Tyler]

Shake it all about?

[Flanking_Now_Hooks]

61 years since a major land war in Europe and counting...

How much of that is because of the EU?

Talk to a lot of French or Germans and they'll cite the EU and its predecessors as one of the central reasons for there being no major European conflict in close to a century. The benefits of the peace dividend are not always appreciated in the UK due to our historical circumstance but 60+ years of peace across an entire continent (Greece/Cyprus/Northern Ireland notwithstanding) is not something to be dismissed lightly.

[rhiwbinaboy]

61 years since a major land war in Europe and counting...

How much of that is because of the EU?

Talk to a lot of French or Germans and they'll cite the EU and its predecessors as one of the central reasons for there being no major European conflict in close to a century. The benefits of the peace dividend are not always appreciated in the UK due to our historical circumstance but 60+ years of peace across an entire continent (Greece/Cyprus/Northern Ireland notwithstanding) is not something to be dismissed lightly.

Did I just imagine the Balkans?


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[Billyfish]

How much of that is because of the EU?

Talk to a lot of French or Germans and they'll cite the EU and its predecessors as one of the central reasons for there being no major European conflict in close to a century. The benefits of the peace dividend are not always appreciated in the UK due to our historical circumstance but 60+ years of peace across an entire continent (Greece/Cyprus/Northern Ireland notwithstanding) is not something to be dismissed lightly.

Did I just imagine the Balkans?


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Can you do that? Can I imagine Bali?

[Tre]

This is a good little thread to get us going on the new board.

Personally, I'll vote in because I look at the absolute cockwombles who are telling you to vote out, and realise I detest every single one of them and all they stand for.

[Billyfish]

The EU is a corporate enabler, with little in the way of democratic safeguards, but it could act as a bulwark against the predations of tin pot conservatives, who want to turn their countries into shopping malls. Reform it to make it more democratic and enshrine human rights as the central pillar and you'll have a worthwhile organisation.

This pretty much. Though its not going to reform I'd have thought. And being out or in isn't going save us from the corporates either.

I'm not entirely sure whether it matters that we are in or no. I don't like BIG monolithic govt. or institutions or profligate bureaucratic ones (as seems to be the case) either, but wouldn't claim those are reasons to leave in themselves.

[Billyfish]

This is a good little thread to get us going on the new board.

Personally, I'll vote in because I look at the absolute cockwombles who are telling you to vote out, and realise I detest every single one of them and all they stand for.

The 'Mericans want us to stay in. That worries me slightly more than the cockwombles.

[Sandydragon]

Currently genuinely undecided. Europe has done some good, but the issue of national sovereignty is a big one. Sadly, I think this debate will be long on emotion and fear, from both sides, and short on fact.

[Tre]

This is a good little thread to get us going on the new board.

Personally, I'll vote in because I look at the absolute cockwombles who are telling you to vote out, and realise I detest every single one of them and all they stand for.

The 'Mericans want us to stay in. That worries me slightly more than the cockwombles.

I want the exact opposite of anything and everything Farage wants. This trumps everything else.

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[Billyfish]

This is a good little thread to get us going on the new board.

Personally, I'll vote in because I look at the absolute cockwombles who are telling you to vote out, and realise I detest every single one of them and all they stand for.

The 'Mericans want us to stay in. That worries me slightly more than the cockwombles.

I want the exact opposite of anything and everything Farage wants. This trumps everything else.

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It's very hard to argue with that. I just don't think he's that dangerous. Less a loose cannon, more a loose water pistol.

[Hooky]

In without a doubt.


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[Tre]

The 'Mericans want us to stay in. That worries me slightly more than the cockwombles.

I want the exact opposite of anything and everything Farage wants. This trumps everything else.

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It's very hard to argue with that. I just don't think he's that dangerous. Less a loose cannon, more a loose water pistol.

No doubt some equally repugnant gits want us to stay in. But I think, on balance, I hate him the most. So ill probably do whatever he least wants me to do.

We won't get the full facts or an adult debate on it, so I may as well go with a childish thought process on it.

Of course I might just not bother at all.

[Lizard]

I'm never really sure why people set so much store by "national sovereignty". The whole idea of a nation state and the modern concept of sovereignty is only about as old as the motor car.

Personally, I'd like to see a move to Neo-feudalism.

[rhiwbinaboy]

This is a good little thread to get us going on the new board.

Personally, I'll vote in because I look at the absolute cockwombles who are telling you to vote out, and realise I detest every single one of them and all they stand for.

The 'Mericans want us to stay in. That worries me slightly more than the cockwombles.

I want the exact opposite of anything and everything Farage wants. This trumps everything else.

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I'll see your Farage and raise you....

[UKHamlet]

So we pull out of Europe and lose all the benefits of being a member state - what do we get in return?

• Sovereignty - the right of Tories asshats to plunder the country's family silver to give their rich mates a tax cut, even though barely anyone voted for them.
  The right of the rich to make everyone's life a fecking misery, just so they can have another Yquem flavoured cock lube.
  The absolute certainty that the Germans and the French will go out of their way to make life difficult for us in terms of trade.
  Complete and utter decline as a world economic force as the Euro-zone powers past us like whippet bitch with a firework up its reccy.
  Having to go cap in hand to the yanks for just about everything.
  The Belgians laughing at us, because we're poor and can't afford their chocolate.

I'm undecided.

[Sandydragon]

I'm never really sure why people set so much store by "national sovereignty". The whole idea of a nation state and the modern concept of sovereignty is only about as old as the motor car.

Personally, I'd like to see a move to Neo-feudalism.

The nation state might not be the concept it once was, but I do like the idea of moving democracy closer to the people. Europe is too remote t be that responsive.

[Tre]

The 'Mericans want us to stay in. That worries me slightly more than the cockwombles.

I want the exact opposite of anything and everything Farage wants. This trumps everything else.

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I'll see your Farage and raise you....

Ha. I quite like him as it goes.