Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:09 pm
In fairness. That’s the best I’ve ever heard Farrell speak.
An honest interview.
What did he say? Any highlights?
He comes accross as humble in press conferences but a complete hot head when the pressure’s on in the match itself (penalty kicks accepted bar that time out) and not a great captain and not a test quality player when there’s clearly better options at 10 and 12. He’s more value to Saracens than England now
Not usually. I think he normally comes across as a bit fake and ‘media trained’. This interview was different.
No ‘highlights’ as such. Just felt like a different tone.
First loss and first time I’m proud to be an England fan since goodness knows when. Spirited Backstop and Farrell both spoke well after the match but I’m not sure they’re the duo for anything beyond a backs against the wall performance in heavy rain.
Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:30 pm
kriel....didnt touch the ball....marchant once.
11 pens are a killer.
fazball nearly worked. Pack were ace, bar 25 mins scrummaging
The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.
Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:30 pm
kriel....didnt touch the ball....marchant once.
11 pens are a killer.
fazball nearly worked. Pack were ace, bar 25 mins scrummaging
The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.
lawes and itoje superb, Steward very good until he kicked too short...
Mellsblue wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:31 pm
First loss and first time I’m proud to be an England fan since goodness knows when. Spirited Backstop and Farrell both spoke well after the match but I’m not sure they’re the duo for anything beyond a backs against the wall performance in heavy rain.
Really proud to be a fan. Also disappointed in the manner we coughed up a win. Crafty work from SA up front (front row) to kid O’Keefe at the end. Brave substitutions by SA.
That said can’t argue with the outcome, hard to feel unlucky when we made no attempt to score a try.
Billy V a class act. Got to be pushing for a place in a WC 23.
Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:30 pm
kriel....didnt touch the ball....marchant once.
11 pens are a killer.
fazball nearly worked. Pack were ace, bar 25 mins scrummaging
The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.
lawes and itoje superb, Steward very good until he kicked too short...
And what a costly kick it was …. If ever there was a time to drill it up the other end then that was it
The Boks performance definitely looked like a team who had done minimal thinking about this game, and a lot of prep for a very different challenge next weekend.
Borthwick and co get credit for getting us this far and making that match close to a point. The plan works until it doesn't, at which point we had nothing else. How much he can be blamed for that with the previous regimes wasted years is the question that he needs to answer in the 6 nations.
Can he pick a new EPS and build a team that can do that game plan but also something else, when we're not able to drag a side down to our level in the pissing down rain.
The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.
lawes and itoje superb, Steward very good until he kicked too short...
And what a costly kick it was …. If ever there was a time to drill it up the other end then that was it
Basics isn't it? Always better to over hit it, and be running on to tackling a guy, than put it straight up and immediately be in trouble.
He comes accross as humble in press conferences but a complete hot head when the pressure’s on in the match itself (penalty kicks accepted bar that time out) and not a great captain and not a test quality player when there’s clearly better options at 10 and 12. He’s more value to Saracens than England now
Not usually. I think he normally comes across as a bit fake and ‘media trained’. This interview was different.
No ‘highlights’ as such. Just felt like a different tone.
Just saw the interviews on youtube. Farrell clearly thinking he's unlikely to be there in 4 years time, underestimating the strength of that kompromat r he seems to possess on everyone in the England management set up.
TBF - a much more human tone from both. Borthwick often sounds like someone who's aware that someone has his family hostage and on no account should he answer a question or make a committed statement on anything.
I think a lot starts with character. We lost that under Eddie and I feel like we’ve now got some foundations to build upon.
We’ll see roughly a third of the squad changing through retirement/inability and others should never be selected again (Billy …) but there is a decent (youngish) core there that have now shown they can go deep in to a tournament and be competitive.
If we can bring the level of intensity we showed tonight on a more regular basis and bolt on a bit more skill, we’ll be hard to beat.
Please don't let that game plan be England's template for the next 4 years. People will take their own lives if paying for that served up week in week out.
Spiffy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:23 pm
The conditions were terrible, but even so, that was a pathetic attempt to play rugby by both teams. Zero creativity on display. SA got suckered into playing the game England wanted and almost paid the price.
Prepare yourselves for the heave-inducing adulation of Captain Courageous in the Sunday papers.
An effort to play absolutely no rugby and just hope SA make mistakes helped by a shambolic SA performance. The papers will be full worship of IceMan (ignoring him costing England 3 points and the team playing absolutely nothing close to attacking rugby). It was a gritty performance, and Martin, Itoje, Curry, Lawes all were great. But it was entirely reliant on the other team comprehensively shitting the bed. If that’s the plan for the next 4 years I give up.
We say that we’ll be saying goodbye to a lot of the squad, but does anyone have actual hope of a reset next year? I would be stunned if bar probably Cole, May and Marchant (due to being ineligible) the starting 15 isn’t pretty much the same. In the media and Slacky Bubblestick’s mind Farrell is in the team until he retires. A plethora of stupidly talented wingers will be ignored in favour of people who can chase kicks. Itoje will produce one performance a year and will therefore be undroppable. And our only scrummaging props are nearly done.
morepork wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:07 pm
Back on track you mucky bastards.
Please don't let that game plan be England's template for the next 4 years. People will take their own lives if paying for that served up week in week out.
I’m pleased with the game. South Africa are clearly a better team but we fronted up.
They deserve it on average and it’ll be a good game with your lot. I’m really interested how (if) South Africa vary what they do against the All Blacks, and whether England would have felt they had a real plan beyond kicking it to your back 3 and hoping they drop it.
SouthFalcon87 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 11:34 pm
An effort to play absolutely no rugby and just hope SA make mistakes helped by a shambolic SA performance. The papers will be full worship of IceMan (ignoring him costing England 3 points and the team playing absolutely nothing close to attacking rugby). It was a gritty performance, and Martin, Itoje, Curry, Lawes all were great. But it was entirely reliant on the other team comprehensively shitting the bed. If that’s the plan for the next 4 years I give up.
We say that we’ll be saying goodbye to a lot of the squad, but does anyone have actual hope of a reset next year? I would be stunned if bar probably Cole, May and Marchant (due to being ineligible) the starting 15 isn’t pretty much the same. In the media and Slacky Bubblestick’s mind Farrell is in the team until he retires. A plethora of stupidly talented wingers will be ignored in favour of people who can chase kicks. Itoje will produce one performance a year and will therefore be undroppable. And our only scrummaging props are nearly done.
I am choosing to believe that this really was just the plan up until the World Cup, and then we can reassess where we are in terms of players, coaches and tactics available.
I would suggest you try and do the same at least until the horror of a 6 nations squad announcement.
Scrumhead wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:55 pm
I think a lot starts with character. We lost that under Eddie and I feel like we’ve now got some foundations to build upon.
We’ll see roughly a third of the squad changing through retirement/inability and others should never be selected again (Billy …) but there is a decent (youngish) core there that have now shown they can go deep in to a tournament and be competitive.
If we can bring the level of intensity we showed tonight on a more regular basis and bolt on a bit more skill, we’ll be hard to beat.
I would say the team shows a lot of spirit, enthusiasm and mutual support. But I am not sure they are demonstrating it in the right way. All the popping-eyed, open-mouthed screaming, snarling,fist pumping, back slapping etc. makes them look like a bunch of zombies on speed. It's all too frantic and over the top. Better to channel that energy into playing more creative rugby and thinking things out with a cool head. The captain is a good example. His frenzied antics are not good leadership despite what the media may say. (Honest, Mikey)
Based upon what Borthwick did with Tigers, there’s evidence to suggest he works on different areas at a time in order to build a more complete team.
What he needed to do was drag a demotivated team playing like crap out of he toilet. I think it’s fair to say he’s done that. I am choosing to believe that he picked players and a game plan he believed could do well in this tournament. Results would suggest he was right.
With roughly a third of this squad changing through retirement and eligibility, it’ll have to be a rebuild, but at least we’re starting from a point of confidence having been RWC semi finalists and 1 point away from beating SA. That gives us a reference point to say ‘here’s what you’re capable of’. Let’s hope we can draw upon that and play some rugby.
Having slept on it, I have a weird feeling Farrell might retire from England duty. His interview was very different to his usual ones - almost wistful. I always thought he would want to do a Sexton. However, it came across like he knows he won’t make it to 2027 and might decide he can bow out having become record points scorer etc.
No Farrell would make the reboot a very different prospect.
Last edited by Scrumhead on Sun Oct 22, 2023 7:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:30 pm
kriel....didnt touch the ball....marchant once.
11 pens are a killer.
fazball nearly worked. Pack were ace, bar 25 mins scrummaging
The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.
Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.
Banquo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 21, 2023 10:30 pm
kriel....didnt touch the ball....marchant once.
11 pens are a killer.
fazball nearly worked. Pack were ace, bar 25 mins scrummaging
The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.
Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.
Isn’t he just. Such a solid classy performance from the lad last night.
Watching again and I just cannot understand how Kitschoff’s tackle to Courtney Lawes head wasn’t look at! We’ve had TMOs constantly engaging until this game when there is clear head contact and tumbleweed!
Happens at 24:26 with a replay showing absolute head contact.
