SF v SA

[p/d]

kriel....didnt touch the ball....marchant once.

That doesn’t read well from a neutral perspective.

On the upside we have the SA attack coach joining us

[FKAS]

The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

Isn’t he just. Such a solid classy performance from the lad last night.

He's had some doubters, I was really pleased he did the job so well last night. At 22 to put in that type of display against the Boks is going to be great for his confidence going forward.

[p/d]

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

Isn’t he just. Such a solid classy performance from the lad last night.

He's had some doubters, I was really pleased he did the job so well last night. At 22 to put in that type of display against the Boks is going to be great for his confidence going forward.

Some players come along and you just know they have that ‘something’ for test rugby. He is one.

Think we will find T Willis is another

[francoisfou]

Being Anglo/French and having both my sides beaten by one point by the same side and with the same ref, I was crying in my beer last night. The key moments for me were when Marler, who was solid in the set scrum, was replaced by Genge, who’s not, and when Cole/Martin were subbed for Sinckler/Chessum. A painful lesson to be learnt for Borthers.Elsewhere, Bumbling Billy’s first contribution was to drop the ball and I’d be surprised if Ken O’Beefe’s performances in these two key matches doesn’t come under close scrutiny from World Rugby.

[Oakboy]

Based upon what Borthwick did with Tigers, there’s evidence to suggest he works on different areas at a time in order to build a more complete team.

What he needed to do was drag a demotivated team playing like crap out of he toilet. I think it’s fair to say he’s done that. I am choosing to believe that he picked players and a game plan he believed could do well in this tournament. Results would suggest he was right.

With roughly a third of this squad changing through retirement and eligibility, it’ll have to be a rebuild, but at least we’re starting from a point of confidence having been RWC semi finalists and 1 point away from beating SA. That gives us a reference point to say ‘here’s what you’re capable of’. Let’s hope we can draw upon that and play some rugby.

Having slept on it, I have a weird feeling Farrell might retire from England duty. His interview was very different to his usual ones - almost wistful. I always thought he would want to do a Sexton. However, it came across like he knows he won’t make it to 2027 and might decide he can bow out having become record points scorer etc.

No Farrell would make the reboot a very different prospect.

Yes, credit where it is due. Despite our doubts during the warm-ups, we saw a side nursed through to the SF where they ran a far better team (on paper) close. From the disaster of the Jones era (let's agree on at least the last three years of it anyway), SB went mainly the short-term disaster-avoidance route with selection and tactics. Getting to be hard to beat was his judgement call on achievement ceiling from the starting point of 'we are not good at anything'.

What next?

I think SB needs to be cut the slack to build. That includes him deciding not to pick anyone for the 6N who he believes will not be there for the next RWC.

A new attack coach is already appointed I believe. The rest of the coaching crew probably needs an overhaul.

[p/d]

Did anyone else notice Earl completely blank BV at the end?

[Oakboy]

Being Anglo/French and having both my sides beaten by one point by the same side and with the same ref, I was crying in my beer last night. The key moments for me were when Marler, who was solid in the set scrum, was replaced by Genge, who’s not, and when Cole/Martin were subbed for Sinckler/Chessum. A painful lesson to be learnt for Borthers.Elsewhere, Bumbling Billy’s first contribution was to drop the ball and I’d be surprised if Ken O’Beefe’s performances in these two key matches doesn’t come under close scrutiny from World Rugby.

I laughed during commentary at Dallaglio praising the ref for his authority. I thought the guy was out of his depth right from the start. Is he really the best NZ ref?

[Oakboy]

Did anyone else notice Earl completely blank BV at the end?

No. It is a remarkable scenario around the 8 shirt. BV selected as the only 8. T Willis omitted. BV red carded. Earl does a creditable temporary job in the shirt. Earl rises in standard and keeps the shirt. BV, for some bizarre reason, despite compelling playing standard evidence, gets the bench slot ahead of Ludlam.

[p/d]

Being Anglo/French and having both my sides beaten by one point by the same side and with the same ref, I was crying in my beer last night. The key moments for me were when Marler, who was solid in the set scrum, was replaced by Genge, who’s not, and when Cole/Martin were subbed for Sinckler/Chessum. A painful lesson to be learnt for Borthers.Elsewhere, Bumbling Billy’s first contribution was to drop the ball and I’d be surprised if Ken O’Beefe’s performances in these two key matches doesn’t come under close scrutiny from World Rugby.

I laughed during commentary at Dallaglio praising the ref for his authority. I thought the guy was out of his depth right from the start. Is he really the best NZ ref?

Same for both sides, we just managed to get on his wrong side - captain and George.

[p/d]

Did anyone else notice Earl completely blank BV at the end?

No. It is a remarkable scenario around the 8 shirt. BV selected as the only 8. T Willis omitted. BV red carded. Earl does a creditable temporary job in the shirt. Earl rises in standard and keeps the shirt. BV, for some bizarre reason, despite compelling playing standard evidence, gets the bench slot ahead of Ludlam.

I’m not sure if it was tactical or a stubbornness to to accept keeping BV was a mistake

[Banquo]

kriel....didnt touch the ball....marchant once.

11 pens are a killer.

fazball nearly worked. Pack were ace, bar 25 mins scrummaging

The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

I'd never considered him as a tight head lock before tbh, but I'd hope he sticks there, rather than fannying around with 6. Drop off when Chessum came on and then when Cole came off was noticeable. That said, it was Genge that was penalised 3 times I think- the last one was pretty comical looking at the angle of Koch (oo er), a loosehead simply can't 'create' that angle. But the game should have been beyond SA by then- I'm looking at Billy and Jamie now; I know its harsh, but that's test rugby; oh and Owen's 10 m for dissent/dumbass. Though that DG was spectacular- where's that been for 11 years

[LongForgotten]

I understood the logic of keeping Billy in the initial squad but no idea why he was selected last night given he's been playing like a hungover Vet. Even at his best I don't think he's ever troubled SA.

A much better performance than I expected, although I'm not sure it bodes particularly well for the future. Those levels of aggression and commitment tend to be one offs (for NH sides at least) and I fear a regression to stupid penalties and static carries.

If Borthwick can maintain something like that he'll have a very solid base to build from, and we should look quite a bit better once there's some attacking structure.

[Oakboy]

The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

I'd never considered him as a tight head lock before tbh, but I'd hope he sticks there, rather than fannying around with 6. Drop off when Chessum came on and then when Cole came off was noticeable. That said, it was Genge that was penalised 3 times I think- the last one was pretty comical looking at the angle of Koch (oo er), a loosehead simply can't 'create' that angle. But the game should have been beyond SA by then- I'm looking at Billy and Jamie now; I know its harsh, but that's test rugby; oh and Owen's 10 m for dissent/dumbass. Though that DG was spectacular- where's that been for 11 years

Come on, you know the answer to the last bit. It was not on script previously.

What I'd love to know is whether Ford's DGs were his own idea on the hoof. Then the coaches picked up on it for yesterday. Or did one of the coaches suggest it first?

[Banquo]

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

I'd never considered him as a tight head lock before tbh, but I'd hope he sticks there, rather than fannying around with 6. Drop off when Chessum came on and then when Cole came off was noticeable. That said, it was Genge that was penalised 3 times I think- the last one was pretty comical looking at the angle of Koch (oo er), a loosehead simply can't 'create' that angle. But the game should have been beyond SA by then- I'm looking at Billy and Jamie now; I know its harsh, but that's test rugby; oh and Owen's 10 m for dissent/dumbass. Though that DG was spectacular- where's that been for 11 years

Come on, you know the answer to the last bit. It was not on script previously.

What I'd love to know is whether Ford's DGs were his own idea on the hoof. Then the coaches picked up on it for yesterday. Or did one of the coaches suggest it first?

You wonder why, as i make that 2 from 2 DG attempts from faz in his intl career, why he hadn't wheeled it out. I'd never have thought a 50 yard dg was in his locker, given his kicking range normally. I almost liked him in that moment.

[p/d]

The issue is our best scrummaging props are both pensioners in rugby terms and the next pair are better in the tight than the loose. Martin was the pick of our forwards for me and Steward from our backs.

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

I'd never considered him as a tight head lock before tbh, but I'd hope he sticks there, rather than fannying around with 6. Drop off when Chessum came on and then when Cole came off was noticeable. That said, it was Genge that was penalised 3 times I think- the last one was pretty comical looking at the angle of Koch (oo er), a loosehead simply can't 'create' that angle. But the game should have been beyond SA by then- I'm looking at Billy and Jamie now; I know its harsh, but that's test rugby; oh and Owen's 10 m for dissent/dumbass. Though that DG was spectacular- where's that been for 11 years

I think that covers it. Also add the short line out. Ok, I get it, but was the plan really for George to kick it then set off on a foot race against the whole SA back line.

And Manu giving away a sloppy penalty. Small things but the bottom line is SA didn’t have to play to win the match

[p/d]

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

I'd never considered him as a tight head lock before tbh, but I'd hope he sticks there, rather than fannying around with 6. Drop off when Chessum came on and then when Cole came off was noticeable. That said, it was Genge that was penalised 3 times I think- the last one was pretty comical looking at the angle of Koch (oo er), a loosehead simply can't 'create' that angle. But the game should have been beyond SA by then- I'm looking at Billy and Jamie now; I know its harsh, but that's test rugby; oh and Owen's 10 m for dissent/dumbass. Though that DG was spectacular- where's that been for 11 years

Come on, you know the answer to the last bit. It was not on script previously.

What I'd love to know is whether Ford's DGs were his own idea on the hoof. Then the coaches picked up on it for yesterday. Or did one of the coaches suggest it first?

Surely SB was listening to Wilkinson at half time, whilst ignoring SCW.

On another note why couldn’t we have had Flats and Sam commentating. They are really good together

[Banquo]

Martin is also a hell of a scrummager to have behind you as a prop.

I'd never considered him as a tight head lock before tbh, but I'd hope he sticks there, rather than fannying around with 6. Drop off when Chessum came on and then when Cole came off was noticeable. That said, it was Genge that was penalised 3 times I think- the last one was pretty comical looking at the angle of Koch (oo er), a loosehead simply can't 'create' that angle. But the game should have been beyond SA by then- I'm looking at Billy and Jamie now; I know its harsh, but that's test rugby; oh and Owen's 10 m for dissent/dumbass. Though that DG was spectacular- where's that been for 11 years

I think that covers it. Also add the short line out. Ok, I get it, but was the plan really for George to kick it then set off on a foot race against the whole SA back line.

And Manu giving away a sloppy penalty. Small things but the bottom line is SA didn’t have to play to win the match

Kinda--- though have to credit them with coming from 9 points down after JG's glitches.They threw their whole bench on, and were decisive about how to claw it back- took Eztebeth off ffs.

(have to say that Manu pen was BS tbh, he just put his arm round Reinach's neck as gesture, nothing else; didn't even look bad on slo mo)

[p/d]

I'd never considered him as a tight head lock before tbh, but I'd hope he sticks there, rather than fannying around with 6. Drop off when Chessum came on and then when Cole came off was noticeable. That said, it was Genge that was penalised 3 times I think- the last one was pretty comical looking at the angle of Koch (oo er), a loosehead simply can't 'create' that angle. But the game should have been beyond SA by then- I'm looking at Billy and Jamie now; I know its harsh, but that's test rugby; oh and Owen's 10 m for dissent/dumbass. Though that DG was spectacular- where's that been for 11 years

I think that covers it. Also add the short line out. Ok, I get it, but was the plan really for George to kick it then set off on a foot race against the whole SA back line.

And Manu giving away a sloppy penalty. Small things but the bottom line is SA didn’t have to play to win the match

Kinda--- though have to credit them with coming from 9 points down after JG's glitches.They threw their whole bench on, and were decisive about how to claw it back- took Eztebeth off ffs.

(have to say that Manu pen was BS tbh, he just put his arm round Reinach's neck as gesture, nothing else; didn't even look bad on slo mo)

Aye. Brave or panic replacements they were more influential than our predetermined ones.

Oh, and did Dan officially come on or just run on for the end of game handbags?

[Banquo]

I think that covers it. Also add the short line out. Ok, I get it, but was the plan really for George to kick it then set off on a foot race against the whole SA back line.

And Manu giving away a sloppy penalty. Small things but the bottom line is SA didn’t have to play to win the match

Kinda--- though have to credit them with coming from 9 points down after JG's glitches.They threw their whole bench on, and were decisive about how to claw it back- took Eztebeth off ffs.

(have to say that Manu pen was BS tbh, he just put his arm round Reinach's neck as gesture, nothing else; didn't even look bad on slo mo)

Aye. Brave or panic replacements they were more influential than our predetermined ones.

Oh, and did Dan officially come on or just run on for the end of game handbags?

Danbags

[p/d]

Kinda--- though have to credit them with coming from 9 points down after JG's glitches.They threw their whole bench on, and were decisive about how to claw it back- took Eztebeth off ffs.

(have to say that Manu pen was BS tbh, he just put his arm round Reinach's neck as gesture, nothing else; didn't even look bad on slo mo)

Aye. Brave or panic replacements they were more influential than our predetermined ones.

Oh, and did Dan officially come on or just run on for the end of game handbags?

Danbags

Is that something ones granddad had to sweat to buy?

[Tom Moore]

Watching it back this morning, and Owen Farrell is not "the calmest man in the Stade De France" as claimed on commentary.

[Banquo]

Aye. Brave or panic replacements they were more influential than our predetermined ones.

Oh, and did Dan officially come on or just run on for the end of game handbags?

Danbags

Is that something ones granddad had to sweat to buy?

glad you said that

[p/d]

Danbags

Is that something ones granddad had to sweat to buy?

glad you said that

I miss rags posts

[Banquo]

BTW- Daly was superb in the role he was cast in, as was Mitchell.

Sunday Times score England 105/150, SA 75/150 with OF as MOTM. LOlz

[Beasties]

Watching again and I just cannot understand how Kitschoff’s tackle to Courtney Lawes head wasn’t look at! We’ve had TMOs constantly engaging until this game when there is clear head contact and tumbleweed!

Happens at 24:26 with a replay showing absolute head contact.

I thought oof at the time, I’m guessing (but couldn’t remember) that it was that incident. No replay. Couldn’t hear any TMO communication either.